if wines wants to come.back i wonder if port would trade #2 of him?

I agree with the sentiment, DA. We must be rigorous this draft/trade/FA period. If we don't fix our midfield, players of Frawley's ilk will leave and we will struggle to attract anyone. As obvious as it sounds, we simply aren't competitive with this midfield and although experience is important, I don't believe it is our entire problem. We lack the class that every other midfield has. I think we should be going really hard at an established player (Sydney's Josh Kennedy for example) and offering a 5 or 6 year deal at $800,000. Front load that as much as possible and then go hard at some B grade free agents. The following year go hard at a few Gold Coast and GWS mids coming out of contract. We go hard while we have the cap room to spare.

if wines wants to come.back i wonder if port would trade #2 of him?

Forget Wines, DF. I'd jump at him for pick 2, but Port won't trade and he won't look to leave within his first contract.

Surely all speculation. Whatever pick we get should be shopped and if there is something valuable on the table the do it.

At this stage, I'd give up pick 2 for Paul Roos.

However, what if we get a PP, sign Daisy as FA, Adams from GWS for Jamar and McKenzie?

I'd keep pick 2 and get Aish and Dunstan with mid 1st round PP.

In: Daisy, Adams, Aish, Dunstan, 2nd round pick (midfielder or running HBF)

Out: Jamar, Jordie, Nico, Davey, etc

At this stage, I'd give up pick 2 for Paul Roos.

However, what if we get a PP, sign Daisy as FA, Adams from GWS for Jamar and McKenzie?

I'd keep pick 2 and get Aish and Dunstan with mid 1st round PP.

In: Daisy, Adams, Aish, Dunstan, 2nd round pick (midfielder or running HBF)

Out: Jamar, Jordie, Nico, Davey, etc

I like your etc Would put most of the team in there

No other club will want the likes of Jamar, JMc2.0, Nicholson, etc.

Adams wants to return to Victoria, from all reports, but like Caddy last year he will want to go to a contender not the likes of us. Tigers are reportedly super-keen.

Because we are at rock-bottom in terms of our appeal to free agents, players wanting to 'come home', etc., I don't see how we have any choice but to build through the draft.

Which means using pick #2 (plus hopefully a priority pick straight after it) on two mids from this year's draft.

The only way I could see this changing was if we were handed the #1 ahead of GWS, and then the effective rights to Boyd would be up for grabs.

Adelaide, Brisbane, Carlton, Collingwood, Fremantle, Port, Richmond, Saints, and especially Footscray would all be super-keen you would think as all need a young key forward that they can mould then build around to various degrees.

Who knows, if we got the pick it may be a super-complicated deal where we trade to GWS who on-trade to a third club.

But there's a lot of water to go under the bridge before then; judging by yesterday's respective performances, there's every chance GWS may snag a couple of cheeky wins and move past us on the ladder on the run home.

A lot will depend upon the AFL Commission and their decision regarding a priority pick otherwise.

I'm all for trading pick 2 and IMO we should target Ryan Griffen he is exactly what we need

So are you saying pick 2 doesn't have much currency?? This would be at odds with everything I have ever heard in recent times.

If Melbourne are using it then it is worthless.

It would be good for people to list who they think we can land with pick 2. Realistically we would be paying serious overs for a player not worth it. There is no maturing quality mid with go home factor. Even if there was looking at the interstate sides the only ones worth pick 2 would be Dangerfield, Hanneberry and Kennedy. To my knowledge there is no out of contract star we can entice with money that isn't already available via FA except for Martin and then you would attempt that through the preseason draft. If we end up with a priority or pick one through our own incompetence then maybe something extraordinary will fall our way when clubs egos get involved over Boyd. Use the high end picks to secure quality kids (just get it right) but trade 2nd and 3rd round or players to fix the gaping midfield hole in our list.

To the OP:

There are a few issues to consider. What do you expect to get for pick two? What could pick two become? And why would a current gun mid from another club want to be traded to Melbourne?

A club won't cast off a gun mid for pick 2 if said mid doesn't want to leave his club. The better clubs understand how important the fabric of a club is and how easily it can be compromised. The only way they'd do it is if the mid was willing to go. In what world would a present gun mid want to leave a top 8 club to come to Melbourne? And if they did I'd be second guessing myself if I wanted them.

You really need to name names if you want your thread to be taken seriously.

Also, just because our development and drafting has been a disaster I still realise where the bulk of the best players in the AFL come from. Invariably they are very early picks, or Father/Son selections. Franklin, Roughead, Hodge, Riewoldt, Selwood, Bartel, Griffen, Cotchin, Murphy, Deledio, Judd, Pendlebury, Pavlich are all top 10 picks, most top 5. O'Meara would have been top 5 (1), as would Hogan, Jeremy Cameron, Martin (GCS), Crouch. Not withstanding our bad luck, or ineptness, the best talent is invariably taken early. I'm loathe to give another club a leg up and miss out on what should be a great talent. Especially when I don't believe we'd get what you hope for. I'd give up pick 2 for Beams, but why on earth would he want to come to Melbourne? He wouldn't and Collingwood wouldn't do the deal.

I think most of us understand there are no quick fixes. Essendon traded out Blumfield, Heffernan and Caracella, who were all premiership mids. Guess what? You would have thought at the time it was hitting the jackpot to get all three. In truth they looked good in a great team. There are many good AFL mids that would suddenly look decidedly average wearing red and blue. It's far easier to play well in a good side than a poor one. Imo, we must stay the course and draft the best young mids we can and hopefully a PP will aid that cause.

If I supported GWS I'd be excited. Yes they usually get a belting, but this young team will grow together to become a force. They drafted too many young kids, whereas the Gold Coast were lucky enough to get Ablett, plus a few other solid senior players, but their talent will grow and bond together and their youthfulness affords them time. It has to be the youth path at Melbourne and if we recruit and develop them right our long-term future will be so much better than trading away precious early picks for more immediate gains.

Give me "substance" over "seeming" any day.

I'm all for trading pick 2 and IMO we should target Ryan Griffen he is exactly what we need

Yeah, and the doggies will be just waiting for our call. We give them pick 2, they use it to pick up a potential star midfielder if they get the pick right and we get a guaranteed 'A' grader. That will happen...not.

We need to get our picks right now, get on with it then look at free agents to top up if needed. It's not a quick fix, the club has been totally screwed by the previous admin.

No. Lets get the recruiting of the best young talent in the country right and watch them develop. Like BH, I'm happy to watch losses(I'm immune) but there's got to be an end game. The thought of trading a James Aish, say, for a Bernie Vince and a fringe player and watching him become a star for another club would truly sicken me. I'd have to say, I don't think it's going to happen.

There's a correlation between when we get thrashed and a call to trade early picks IMO.

I have more faith in the recruiting staff under Viney and Taylor than I have before. Terlich, Matt Jones for example have been a positive.

Our Pro-Scout Kelly O'Donnell probably had input to these selections. I would not give up pick 2 unless it was a Presia, Dangerfield, Sloane, or a Harley Bennell type. I would certainly not take Daisy Thomas as he is injury prone and certainly not a pick 2.

We have Jones x2, Trengove, Viney and Toumpas. Sylvia also has stints in the middle. I think we have to just offload the lazy players in the team such as Davey and Blease and get rid of the players that are just not up to it or not going to take us anywhere such as Pederson, Byrnes, McKenzie, Strauss. Most teams have their half forwards having stints running through the middle. Apart from Sylvia ours don't seem capable of this at this stage i.e Howe/Kent.

I'd give the recruiters a chence to get it right with picks in this years draft.

I get that some people want to keep the pics and be patient... but not really.

If we draft 18 year olds, more often than not we will be waiting 4 years or so for them to be the player we need.

In that time the likes of nat jones, frawley, sylvia, garland, clark, dawes are all ageing and some may even be finished.

So i think the best idea is to snag some experience, trade some picks.

Obviously dont trade them all, we will still have youth coming through, but waiting for these top draft picks hasnt done much for us so far.

I get that some people want to keep the pics and be patient... but not really.

If we draft 18 year olds, more often than not we will be waiting 4 years or so for them to be the player we need.

In that time the likes of nat jones, frawley, sylvia, garland, clark, dawes are all ageing and some may even be finished.

So i think the best idea is to snag some experience, trade some picks.

Obviously dont trade them all, we will still have youth coming through, but waiting for these top draft picks hasnt done much for us so far.

The idea is ok but in principle, it sounds good. Let's get some good mids into the club and trade some picks for them. The practice is a whole different thing...who are these mids that we can get? and don't name Griffen, Dangerfield, Fyfe etc. these type of players are not available.

We could get nqr's or pensioners, neither type are worth a high pick.

I get that some people want to keep the pics and be patient... but not really.

If we draft 18 year olds, more often than not we will be waiting 4 years or so for them to be the player we need.

In that time the likes of nat jones, frawley, sylvia, garland, clark, dawes are all ageing and some may even be finished.

So i think the best idea is to snag some experience, trade some picks.

Obviously dont trade them all, we will still have youth coming through, but waiting for these top draft picks hasnt done much for us so far.

I don't think that is entirely true. A lot of young mids can start having a decent impact in their 2nd years. It is the Key position players that generally take 4-6 years to come on. I agree we need to bring in some ready to go mids but it would be very stupid to trade away a top pick for someone who isn't worth it. In the end if we get a situation like Judd wanting to go home then we should try but if it's someone like a Bernie Vince or a Taylor Adams I'd rather hold onto the pick and look for other sides fringe mids with our lower picks. Remember a lot of other sides fringe mids would walk into our midfield so they will still help from the get go while we develop our young kids. When the Tigers were in the same sort of hole we are in they didn't trade away a top pick they brought in Houli and Grigg cheap and they are both now mainstays in their side.

Edited July 28, 201312 yr by cunnerz09

Bernie Vince, definitely not. In and out of the Crows side last year.Luke Parker, yes.

do whatever you can to get Dale Thomas

Taylor adams

i dont care if we lose pick 2 and our second round pick

get these boys!

id be willing to do

pick 2- Dale Thomas (he gets 700k a year)

T Adams- Second Round pick, Mark Jamar

or

Free Agency- Thomas (700k a year)

T adams and second round pick- pick 2, Jamar

Bernie Vince, definitely not. In and out of the Crows side last year.Luke Parker, yes.

I agree but I watched him smash his way through the Cats mids to help give the Crows a Victory 2 weeks ago.

I think we need Dale Thomas or Pendles the Demon.

We cant train a talented young kid into an Melbourne mid in one year.

It takes us at least three to teach them to fumble consistently.

Words can't...

Why on earth would anyone think trading pick 2 would be a good idea??

Unless we can get a Dangerfield (which we won't) we should retain it and develop.

I believe there is an irrational fear of developing amongst many of our supporters, but it is the way forward with pointy end draft picks.

The solution to this problem and the priority pick are one and the same:

I believe the solution would be to give us a mini-draft type selection for the best 17 year old (like Hogan, and O'Meara were) that we have to trade. Then we can pick up an experienced mid from somewhere and it doesn't directly effect this years draft or our number 2 pick.

Surely all speculation. Whatever pick we get should be shopped and if there is something valuable on the table the do it.

That's the question though, if there's something out here worth pursuing for pick 2 then I say go for it but who?

The solution to this problem and the priority pick are one and the same:I believe the solution would be to give us a mini-draft type selection for the best 17 year old (like Hogan, and O'Meara were) that we have to trade. Then we can pick up an experienced mid from somewhere and it doesn't directly effect this years draft or our number 2 pick.

And what did GWS get for their mini draft picks? Experienced players or draft picks? Clubs don't want to give up quality players for picks, even high picks.

I'm coming round to the fact that we will get shafted if we trade high picks for NQR players.

Draft for talent. Trade for need.

Unfortunately, we may need to trade players such as Watts, Frawley or Clark (if his foot holds up) in order to get real mids. I want them to stay, but without a bunch of quality mids, we will keep getting flogged on a regular basis. Clubs cannot survive doing that in this market.

And what did GWS get for their mini draft picks? Experienced players or draft picks? Clubs don't want to give up quality players for picks, even high picks.

I'm coming round to the fact that we will get shafted if we trade high picks for NQR players.

Draft for talent. Trade for need.

Unfortunately, we may need to trade players such as Watts, Frawley or Clark (if his foot holds up) in order to get real mids. I want them to stay, but without a bunch of quality mids, we will keep getting flogged on a regular basis. Clubs cannot survive doing that in this market.

I would say Frawley is one of a few non trade players, absolutely required. I would put Garland and Jones in that bracket and trade anyone else.