OUT: Abbott IN: Turnbull

[P-man 13,277]

i just knew you would attempt some form of apologia for the good old aussie battler kevin

you are so predictably left and yet you lampoon fossil for being a rusted on righty

Mate, your opinion of me doesn't bother me at all. I know my views and I know where they originate. I don't trust Tony Abbott. I haven't from the get go. Thus far, he's done nothing to alleviate my concerns. Nothing to do with yours or Hannibal's left vs right infatuation. I haven't always voted Labor either.

If someone is going to make outlandish statements and just quote a Liberal campaign flyer with absolutely nothing to back them up, I'll call them on it. If you dispute what I've said, by all means, say so and explain why.

You know, actually state your views rather than making smartarse quips about everyone else. A foreign experience perhaps.

[low flying Robbo 979]

I don't hate Labor. I just dislike gross incompetence that we, our kids and our grandkids will pay for.

I don't like and agree with all Abbott and Hockey say and do. But they have a million miles to go to be as bad as Rudd, Gillard and Swan.

Labor lost the election and Govt. for one reason - their gross incompetence - get over it.

Only time will tell if the Libs can do better - hopefully they can.

In the meantime to slate Abbott as an International Embarrasment is ridiculous - he is doing very well on the international scene - responding to the shooting down of the Malaysian plane.

(and he is not taking selfies and abusing flight stewards - and there are no videos of him ranting like a lunatic)

I can only presume some of the responses to this are coming from those on welfare or school teachers.

End of story.

No, but there are plenty of videos of him acting like a complete idiot...

[daisycutter 28,691]

Mate, your opinion of me doesn't bother me at all. I know my views and I know where they originate. I don't trust Tony Abbott. I haven't from the get go. Thus far, he's done nothing to alleviate my concerns. Nothing to do with yours or Hannibal's left vs right infatuation. I haven't always voted Labor either.

If someone is going to make outlandish statements and just quote a Liberal campaign flyer with absolutely nothing to back them up, I'll call them on it. If you dispute what I've said, by all means, say so and explain why.

You know, actually state your views rather than making smartarse quips about everyone else. A foreign experience perhaps.

wasn't aware i said anything in support of abbott, in fact i don't like the guy at all

i never said you were a rusted on laborite, i used the term lefty, just as justifiable as your labelling fossil a rusted on lib

my views on the merits of budget deficit or surplus fall between your and fossil's more extreme views

now i know you are an intelligent chap (as is kevin and i suppose the rhode scholar) but you do tend to selectively use (reasonable) facts whilst ignoring other (reasonable) facts to reinforce what is in reality just your pre-disposed political opinion.

hence we just end up with this black and white tooing and froing and personal abusing

i'd rather just poke a bit of fun at it now and again because there little chance of meeting any middle ground whilst people adopt hard political stances

nothing too personal p-man, but if you hadn't attacked fossil so personally i wouldn't said anything

[P-man 13,277]

wasn't aware i said anything in support of abbott, in fact i don't like the guy at all

i never said you were a rusted on laborite, i used the term lefty, just as justifiable as your labelling fossil a rusted on lib

my views on the merits of budget deficit or surplus fall between your and fossil's more extreme views

now i know you are an intelligent chap (as is kevin and i suppose the rhode scholar) but you do tend to selectively use (reasonable) facts whilst ignoring other (reasonable) facts to reinforce what is in reality just your pre-disposed political opinion.

hence we just end up with this black and white tooing and froing and personal abusing

i'd rather just poke a bit of fun at it now and again because there little chance of meeting any middle ground whilst people adopt hard political stances

nothing too personal p-man, but if you hadn't attacked fossil so personally i wouldn't said anything

If I verged into personal territory with fossil I apologise. Uninformed commentary really does annoy me, because it just pollutes the debate and spreads the [censored] and lies. It's like an ignorance virus. The figures do not point towards a fiscal or economic crisis that is going to take generations to repare. That is just outright crap. We were and are travelling just fine. Any dip from here is blood on Abbott and Hockey's hands.

I don't believe I selectively choose facts but I am happy to be taken to task on it if I have.

[daisycutter 28,691]

If I verged into personal territory with fossil I apologise. Uninformed commentary really does annoy me, because it just pollutes the debate and spreads the [censored] and lies. It's like an ignorance virus. The figures do not point towards a fiscal or economic crisis that is going to take generations to repare. That is just outright crap. We were and are travelling just fine. Any dip from here is blood on Abbott and Hockey's hands.

I don't believe I selectively choose facts but I am happy to be taken to task on it if I have.

but see, you've just done it again

his (view) is uninformed commentary.....and outright crap........

your (view) is we were and are travelling just fine.... fact.........

i wish i could see economic facts and trends so clearly

(makes a note to himself to avoid political point-scoring threads)

[P-man 13,277]

but see, you've just done it again

his (view) is uninformed commentary.....and outright crap........

your (view) is we were and are travelling just fine.... fact.........

i wish i could see economic facts and trends so clearly

(makes a note to himself to avoid political point-scoring threads)

DC, I'm not inclined to want to repeat myself when my views are in print for you to review. I've explained why it's crap. I pay attention to expert opinion. Treasury and Dept of Finance produced independent pre-election assessments of the fiscal and economic environments that forecast smaller defecits up until 2016-17, when the budget would work its way back into surplus.

So unless you're going to argue those reports were corrupted, it's crap. Saying his grandkids are going to pay off a debt is nonsense. Isn't it? What do you think?

Abbott's fiscal policy is the one that should come under scrutiny if the debt is to widen. It didn't need to. He is the one that has done things like tear down the carbon price scheme and kept the compensation measures.

So again, what do you think? Tell me how I'm twisting/overlooking facts.

[P-man 13,277]

As for our economy, we have a triple A credit rating. Albeit in an environment where the economy is transitioning away from the mining boom, at a time when global economic growth is stifling, but still, indicators show a strong economy. Hockey himself has come out and stated the truth to a NZ audience that there is in fact no economic crisis. These are the basis for my saying we are travelling just fine.

[daisycutter 28,691]

DC, I'm not inclined to want to repeat myself when my views are in print for you to review. I've explained why it's crap. I pay attention to expert opinion. Treasury and Dept of Finance produced independent pre-election assessments of the fiscal and economic environments that forecast smaller defecits up until 2016-17, when the budget would work its way back into surplus.

So unless you're going to argue those reports were corrupted, it's crap. Saying his grandkids are going to pay off a debt is nonsense. Isn't it? What do you think?

Abbott's fiscal policy is the one that should come under scrutiny if the debt is to widen. It didn't need to. He is the one that has done things like tear down the carbon price scheme and kept the compensation measures.

So again, what do you think? Tell me how I'm twisting/overlooking facts.

i don't really want to continue this

except to say that economists expert or otherwise are noted on their inability to agree with each other and continually get it wrong

it is hardly an exact science and more akin to black magic at times

and then there are vested interests to be considered (future consultancy employment and other "connections")

the term "independent" when applied to economists is also questionable

i'm afraid i don't have your faith in hand selected independent assessments with probable limited terms of reference

i'm sure i could google and find opposing so-called expert independent views to those you allude to

but obviously YMMV

disclaimer: i am not an economist nor claim any special skills in such areas

[P-man 13,277]

i don't really want to continue this

except to say that economists expert or otherwise are noted on their inability to agree with each other and continually get it wrong

it is hardly an exact science and more akin to black magic at times

and then there are vested interests to be considered (future consultancy employment and other "connections")

the term "independent" when applied to economists is also questionable

i'm afraid i don't have your faith in hand selected independent assessments with probable limited terms of reference

i'm sure i could google and find opposing so-called expert independent views to those you allude to

but obviously YMMV

disclaimer: i am not an economist nor claim any special skills in such areas

Then please do so.

It's Treasury and Finance. It's not some bloke out of the Yellow Pages.

If you can find one economic analysis that stated pre-election it would take GENERATIONS to pay off the debt, I'm very open to reading it.

[daisycutter 28,691]

As for our economy, we have a triple A credit rating. Albeit in an environment where the economy is transitioning away from the mining boom, at a time when global economic growth is stifling, but still, indicators show a strong economy. Hockey himself has come out and stated the truth to a NZ audience that there is in fact no economic crisis. These are the basis for my saying we are travelling just fine.

that's a furphy to claim about a now-time crisis

i've always understood that claim to mean that action needed to be taken now to avoid any crisis in the future (i.e. years away)

i don't doubt the libs are overplaying their hand. what political parties doesn't

i do believe however that an economic crisis (or recession or whatever) could happen in australia in the future and could happen quickly

i'm not saying it will but the transitioning away from the mining boom and other events in the world economy could hit us hard (i said could)

if there is another world economic recession (not improbable) we won't have a war chest next time to give us options to buy our way out of trouble

now don't take that as a must have a surplus tomorrow type suggestion

just a comment to say i don't see our economic status being so assured going into the future as some would have it

[daisycutter 28,691]

Then please do so.

It's Treasury and Finance. It's not some bloke out of the Yellow Pages.

If you can find one economic analysis that stated pre-election it would take GENERATIONS to pay off the debt, I'm very open to reading it.

sorry p-man but my opinion on treasury and finance dept is not very positive

they continually got their forecasts wrong over the last 6 years and not by small margins

as i tried to say before economic forecasting is a black art

[P-man 13,277]

that's a furphy to claim about a now-time crisis

i've always understood that claim to mean that action needed to be taken now to avoid any crisis in the future (i.e. years away)

i don't doubt the libs are overplaying their hand. what political parties doesn't

i do believe however that an economic crisis (or recession or whatever) could happen in australia in the future and could happen quickly

i'm not saying it will but the transitioning away from the mining boom and other events in the world economy could hit us hard (i said could)

if there is another world economic recession (not improbable) we won't have a war chest next time to give us options to buy our way out of trouble

now don't take that as a must have a surplus tomorrow type suggestion

just a comment to say i don't see our economic status being so assured going into the future as some would have it

Okay, thank you. I wouldn't dispute most of that, and absolutely agree we need to be prudent in how we approach the next few years.

But the two points I was disputing was a) the state of the budget now, and b) the state of the economy now. Some careful budget management is what is needed. My personal view (not fact), is that the current proposed budget does not qualify as such.

[daisycutter 28,691]

Okay, thank you. I wouldn't dispute most of that, and absolutely agree we need to be prudent in how we approach the next few years.

But the two points I was disputing was a) the state of the budget now, and b) the state of the economy now. Some careful budget management is what is needed. My personal view (not fact), is that the current proposed budget does not qualify as such.

as for the state of the budget and economy now....well abbott et al has made a mess of it (politically if not economically). I can't at the moment see how he can extricate himself (successfully).

the balance of power fiasco in the senate is harmful for the country though i'm sure labor folk are enjoying it.

the pup are going to make the greens BOP look like a walk in the park

can you imagine 6 more years of jacqui lambie?

someone really needs to have a good look at senate election process or we will die by strangulation

of course i'm not ignoring the lack of political leadership of both the major parties and how disenchanted the electorate is

[P-man 13,277]

Six years of Jacqui Lambie...

If it doesn't involve Tasmania or the armed forces, she doesn't want to know about it. Not the shiniest penny.

But I will give her one thing. There is no filter, which appeals to many people. With the recent crop of "polished" media performers, I can understand how a bit of raw honesty can be refreshing. But outside of that, it's a scary thought having the Puppies holding the aces.

To Ricky Muir's credit, he did salvage the Renewable Energy Agency, which is something I did not expect. Abbott wanted it dismantled totally, contrary to every respected critic's view of its fundamental importance (sorry to bang on with the anti Abbott stuff but these are the facts). Its funding has essentially been halved, but it's still kicking. So there's hope for the minor parties yet.

100% agree on the lack of leadership in both parties. It's a sorry state. The next true leader who arrives on the scene will be elected in a landslide. We will wait and see who that is.

[hardtack 10,158]

someone really needs to have a good look at senate election process or we will die by strangulation

It's funny (maybe), but I still remember one of the questions in my Social Studies matriculation exam in 1969 was something along the lines of "Do we really need the Senate anymore, or is it a thing of the past?". The more things change, the more it would seem, that things stay the same ;-)

[daisycutter 28,691]

It's funny (maybe), but I still remember one of the questions in my Social Studies matriculation exam in 1969 was something along the lines of "Do we really need the Senate anymore, or is it a thing of the past?". The more things change, the more it would seem, that things stay the same ;-)

pup should hold the balance of power for the next 6 years, regardless of who wins the next election

negotiating with a megalomaniac and a group of inexperienced crazies would seem a recipe for constant instability

i know the public voted them in but more through the quirks of the senate preference and quota systems

but as you say hardtack the new is just the recycled old

[nutbean 8,837]

Six years of Jacqui Lambie...

I like Jacqui - but then again, I do have a package so that makes me number one on her greatest hits list.

[daisycutter 28,691]

I like Jacqui - but then again, I do have a package so that makes me number one on her greatest hits list.

nah think you miss out nut

think she's got her mind set on a well hung senate

then again she might turn cougar and set her sight on some poor parliamentary intern

[nutbean 8,837]

nah think you miss out nut

think she's got her mind set on a well hung senate

then again she might turn cougar and set her sight on some poor parliamentary intern

sort of a rogue Bill Clinton ?

Edited July 29, 2014 by nutbean

[daisycutter 28,691]

sort of a rogue Bill Clinton ?

could be.....seems she has put it out there......pity any poor victim but

[ijbfossil 77]

Better to let this rest.

But cannot help noting that P - man has said that "some careful budget management is needed" - no argument there - would only say it was needed from 2007 and we didn't get it and what happened from then until the milky bar kid melted away is probably why it is especially needed now.

Can Abbott and Hockey do it - I don't know.

Could Rudd/Gillard and Swan do it - no they couldn't.

As for Vic - cannot believe the electorate have forgotten myki and the Desal plant already.

[Earl Hood 5,822]

sorry p-man but my opinion on treasury and finance dept is not very positive

they continually got their forecasts wrong over the last 6 years and not by small margins

as i tried to say before economic forecasting is a black art

DC please cut them some slack; As someone once said prediction is very difficult, especially about the future!

[dee-luded 2,958]

He is indeed an international embarrassment.

Americans laughing at us over Abbott:

you do realise choke that american presidents have been the butt of international jokes and derision for decades

not meaning to defend mr rabbit but just to add a bit of so-what context

not 'w' ??? poor georgy boy...

c'mon DC, leave our faux 'w' outa this.

If he bugs ya, why not leave it to others to hunt him, like 'Doc' Turnbull or Daffy 'D' J Hockey

where dat waskilly wabbit

Edited July 29, 2014 by dee-luded

[daisycutter 28,691]

DC please cut them some slack; As someone once said prediction is very difficult, especially about the future!

i'll cut them some slack earl when others stop referencing them as the pinnacle of infallability

[Earl Hood 5,822]

i'll cut them some slack earl when others stop referencing them as the pinnacle of infallability

Hold on DC haven't we been here before? I thought we had workshopped this infallible issue in an earlier post. I believe we established the following outcomes:

The Pope is infallible and he coaches second base for the Cardinals!