OUT: Abbott IN: Turnbull

[MadAsHell 4,212]

I would rank the 5 worst Prime Ministers in my lifetime as Billy McMahon, Gough Whitlam, Malcolm Fraser, Kevin Rudd and Julia Gillard and I would have Rudd and Gillard tied for first place followed by Whitlam, Mcmahon and Fraser.

I can understand that a lot don't like Abbott, I can't understand why but each to is own, but for the life of me I can't understand why anyone could like that trumped up twerp Rudd. He is a narcissist with a foul temper who has no hesitation on belittling women, he showed recently that he has a savage streak in him when he hurt a little boy who had the temerity to poke fun at him.

This [censored] has wasted $billions on hair brained schemes and bubble thoughts, his latest bubble was the NT which was not even discussed in cabinet and Bill Shorten said he only knew of it after it was announced.

When he was PM the first time most, if not all of his colleagues, hated him and rid themselves of him at the first opportunity, then when Gillard proved to be even less likeable, they shafted her and brought him back. Half the Cabinet walked out and they were replaced by the ones that Gillard disposed of when she knifed Rudd; this is a Government in absolute turmoil, divided and directionless. They are all waiting for King Rudd to perform a miracle and it's just not going to happen.

The Labor Party needs at least two terms in opposition to get their [censored] together, they are, at the moment, totally without any direction and if those that supprt them can't see this then their blind hatred of Abbott is the reason.

It surprises me why this is so and if you ask most people their answer is mainly, I just don't like him and if you push further and ask why, you get the same answer. Most people don't have any reason why but the picture that's been painted of Abbott over the years is probably the reason, nothing of substance but just all the negativity about him.

Most people that have met him say he is a really good guy which reminds me of a comment that was made; if you meet Julia Gillard you walk away thinking she's not really a bad person, if you meet Kevin Rudd you walk away thinking he's an [censored].

I'll give you McMahon, Fraser & Rudd's first term. Replace Whitlam & Gillard with Menzies & Keating.

Over time I have no doubt that Gillard will go down as one of Australia's most influential prime ministers without being overly popular considering what she achieved with having a minority government to work with. Couple that with the conjecture she had to deal with that has never been on a Prime Minister before, no doubt because she was a woman.

And I can tell you Robbie why people don't like Abbott. People don't like Abbott because he comes out and makes brash statements before reviewing facts. See Olympic Dam 2012. People don't like Abbott because he wants to introduce a boarder protection policy that requires our navy to undertake an act of piracy. People don't like Abbott because he has his head in the sand re: climate change. People don't like Abbott because he's stuck in the 1950's with his views on women, re: abortion is the easy way out, re: the women of Australia doing the ironing. People don't like Abbott becasue he's $30 billion out on his costings. People don't like Abbott because he has a surplus at all costs mentality rather then a what's best for the country policy re: budget. People don't like Abbott because he stands for cuts to education and health in order to try and reach surplus. Oh but that's ok, the high income earners can afford private health & private school fees. And people don;t like Abbott because he's made promises he knows that he won't be able to keep. re: scrapping the carbon tax/trading emissions scheme when he knows the Greens will just block it in the senate when they have power there. I will stress this is very different to Gillards promise of no carbon tax which was made assuming they would not have to form a minority government and make deals with the Greens.

I do agree on your comments re: Rudd to Gillard. I'll think you'll find it was a case of Rudd the narcissist campaigning the whole time while on the back bench to get the job back off Gillard and undermining her every chance he got. Why then would you vote for Labor then meaning a vote for Rudd I hear you ask? Because I can't in good faith vote for Liberal and there for vote for Abbott in large part for some of the reasons I've listed above.

These are the reasons why people don't like Abbott Robbie and the reason why they don't see the Liberal party as a viable option. Remember, we only have one realistic alternative (not including Clive Palmer of course!).

In my humble opinion, everything about Abbott resembles a mirror image to George W Bush, and I'd really rather not see that in my country and be forced to consider moving to New Zealand.... Rudd may be a [censored], but no more then any other politician if you ask me. Abbott however is something completely different.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I'll give you McMahon, Fraser & Rudd's first term. Replace Whitlam & Gillard with Menzies & Keating.

Over time I have no doubt that Gillard will go down as one of Australia's most influential prime ministers without being overly popular considering what she achieved with having a minority government to work with. Couple that with the conjecture she had to deal with that has never been on a Prime Minister before, no doubt because she was a woman.

And I can tell you Robbie why people don't like Abbott. People don't like Abbott because he comes out and makes brash statements before reviewing facts. See Olympic Dam 2012. People don't like Abbott because he wants to introduce a boarder protection policy that requires our navy to undertake an act of piracy. People don't like Abbott because he has his head in the sand re: climate change. People don't like Abbott because he's stuck in the 1950's with his views on women, re: abortion is the easy way out, re: the women of Australia doing the ironing. People don't like Abbott becasue he's $30 billion out on his costings. People don't like Abbott because he has a surplus at all costs mentality rather then a what's best for the country policy re: budget. People don't like Abbott because he stands for cuts to education and health in order to try and reach surplus. Oh but that's ok, the high income earners can afford private health & private school fees. And people don;t like Abbott because he's made promises he knows that he won't be able to keep. re: scrapping the carbon tax/trading emissions scheme when he knows the Greens will just block it in the senate when they have power there. I will stress this is very different to Gillards promise of no carbon tax which was made assuming they would not have to form a minority government and make deals with the Greens.

That's a absolute cop out, but people can always find a way to deal with their prejudices, can't they.

I do agree on your comments re: Rudd to Gillard. I'll think you'll find it was a case of Rudd the narcissist campaigning the whole time while on the back bench to get the job back off Gillard and undermining her every chance he got. Why then would you vote for Labor then meaning a vote for Rudd I hear you ask? Because I can't in good faith vote for Liberal and there for vote for Abbott in large part for some of the reasons I've listed above.

These are the reasons why people don't like Abbott Robbie and the reason why they don't see the Liberal party as a viable option. Remember, we only have one realistic alternative (not including Clive Palmer of course!).

In my humble opinion, everything about Abbott resembles a mirror image to George W Bush, and I'd really rather not see that in my country and be forced to consider moving to New Zealand.... Rudd may be a [censored], but no more then any other politician if you ask me. Abbott however is something completely different.

I won't bother arguing over who was the worst and who wasn't it's all a matter of opinion, but I will say that Rudd is the most obnoxious person ever to be Prime Minister and that says a lot considering Keating was a complete [censored].

Gilard was simply incompetent and the [censored] about her having to put up with conjecture because she was a woman is laughable; she will be seen as an abject failure and if she's lucky won't spend time in the big house for her disgraceful conduct in the HSU affair. She played up the Women thing and a few bought it, not many but a few, I guess you were one of them. Even her own party were embarrassed by it at the end.

I was going to ask you how turning back illegal boat arrivals was an act of piracy but I just can't see the point. Nor can I see any point in continuing to discuss this with you as you repeat the same throw away lines about Abbott that have been fed out by the Labor Party for several years now.

Abbott is a Catholic and it is against his religion to condone abortion, how this makes him stuck in the 50's is beyond me but it does raise an interesting point; why the 50's? You see this is one of the throw away lines that keeps on getting repeated and it seems as if you've caught it, so why the 50's?

Catholics have always been against abortion so why single out this era.

The rest of it including your George Bush comment could come straight from the ALP handbook of how to denigrate Tony Abbott. Remember Rudd saluting GWB on their first meeting.

Anyway I really can't be bothered, I've expressed my view and you have expressed yours and we are poles apart, so to continue would be a waste of time.

BTW Enjoy New Zealand.

Edited August 23, 2013 by RobbieF

[MadAsHell 4,212]

To end my 2c on the subject you made a post in which you questioned why people didn't like/couldn't stand Abbott. I gave you the reasons.

As for his religious stance on abortion, he's entitled to think whatever he wants to think. But to come out and say it's the easy way out shows that the guy clearly has no idea on the subject.

And to answer your question about boat arrivals. It is legal to seek asylum by boat. There's no law against it.

As you said, we're poles apart so we'll just agree to disagree and as I'm a realist I'll start looking at real estate in either Wellington or Dunedin...

[Dee Fan 3,247]

To end my 2c on the subject you made a post in which you questioned why people didn't like/couldn't stand Abbott. I gave you the reasons.

As for his religious stance on abortion, he's entitled to think whatever he wants to think. But to come out and say it's the easy way out shows that the guy clearly has no idea on the subject.

And to answer your question about boat arrivals. It is legal to seek asylum by boat. There's no law against it.

As you said, we're poles apart so we'll just agree to disagree and as I'm a realist I'll start looking at real estate in either Wellington or Dunedin...

As i said your reasons come straight from the ALP book on how to denigrate Tony Abbott so I don't take much notice of them.

You may be ok with the flood of Economic Refugees, arriving unannounced by boat, stretching the capacity of the Navy and putting our sailors lives at risk, but I'm not. There are laws governing this Country and its right to choose who does and who doesn't stay here.

Good luck with the house hunting and stay away from the earthquake zones.

Signing out.

Edited August 24, 2013 by RobbieF

[P-man 13,366]

Whether or not Abbott is a nice bloke, or is even more personable, isn't the issue. I don't buy into the idea that Abbott is concentrated evil, no matter how much I might differ from him on certain values. I once met Barnaby Joyce in a pub and he's actually a very nice fella in person, and more open minded than he lets on. But I don't vote on who I want to have a beer with, I vote on who is best placed to run the country. The issue is Abbott's policy ambition, alot of which has been kept in the shade from the average voter, as well as his suitability as Prime Minister which is lacking on several fronts.

Forget all the gaffes and sexist remarks. What does he actually stand for? Abbott believes, in his own words, that "a productive society means greater inequality is inevitable". Fundamentally, he sees society as a market. The wealthy are given advantage to prosper and the workers and less well off must fend for themselves. But I guess that approach has worked out well in the US, UK and Europe. Oh wait..

There's little doubting that Abbott's policies will have the overall effect of distributing wealth further upwards.

There's the lowering of the tax-free threshold from $18,200 to $6000 that will drag more than one million low-income earners back into the tax system.

The proposed closure of the Low Income Superannuation Contribution which would leave the 3.6 million lowest paid workers in the country worse off to the tune of around $4 billion.

The ditching of the proposed 15 per cent tax on income from superannuation above $100,000 a year. The effect will be 16,000 high income earners with superannuation savings in excess of $2 million get a tax cut, while 3.6 million workers earning less than $37,000 will pay more than $4 billion extra in tax on their super over the next four years.

It's now discovered that lower-income shareholders will be the ones coughing up $1.6 billion towards the incredibly ill thought out paid parental leave scheme, his signature policy outside of "stop the boats".

He's said they wont go back to WorkChoices, yet the policy provisions he has released undermine collective agreements and shift workers back towards individual contracts, both key elements of WorkChoices.

Then there is how he plans to fill the gaping holes in his budget. He won't say, because it's obvious where the money will come from - health and education. Basic services required by, well, everyone, but especially those who are less well off. He plans to get rid of at least 12,000 public servants, but won't say where. So essentially, he may not cut certain programs or services, they'll just eventually fall over from neglect.

Basically, the rich stand to get richer while those down the other end of the food chain are going to be properly reamed under an Abbott government, and they don't even know it yet. How could they with Murdoch essentially being Abbott's campaign director? And let's not pretend that he hasn't played a major part in getting Abbott elected.

It's also not just the fact he's so out of touch with direction of modern society on issues of gender, sexuality and the like. He's just out of touch, period. Both parties have committed $17 billion to transport infrastructure, however Labor is allocating some of that to urban rail, whilst the aspiring "infrastructure PM" has not allocated a cent, and is putting the whole lot towards roads. To me this demonstrates little recognition of the trends in transportation, or indeed the massive frustration with public transport.

The fact of the matter is, we have a very good quality of life in this country, and the previous Labor governments have done well to keep the economy growing (14% since 2007) and our head above water during the GFC, when it seemed the world was falling into recession. But despite that, we have an incessant campaign that has convinced the voting public that a budget deficit means the sky is falling, and only THEY know how to fix it. It's garbage. It is going to mean needlessly sacrificing social services all so this bloke who has made no secrets of his desire to be Prime Minister for a long time, can live out his dream, and allow the Gina Rineharts of this world to stuff their pockets with a little bit extra.

The best thing to do is grit our teeth and ride it out. Thankfully as a Melbourne supporter, I'm well practised. Just remember if you vote for him, you remove your right to complain when he pulls out a swifty that you never saw coming.

But hey, if you have $2 million in super, you'll be sweet.

Edited August 24, 2013 by P_Man

[MadAsHell 4,212]

The next [censored] Cheney. Very scary this man!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W7b1qb9sU8g

[DemonFrog 1,354]

Good times ahead for us all LOL

[MadAsHell 4,212]

Final paragraph from The Age's open letter in their editorial in today's paper page 20.

"The Age believes in economic and social progress, in liberty and justice, in equality and compassion, and openness of government. We believe the role of government is to build a strong, fair nation for future generations, and not to pander to sectional interests. It is with these values in mind that we endorse the Labor Party in this important election."

You can read the full letter here: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial/labors-policies-best-reflect-our-values-20130905-2t828.html

Couldn't of said it any better myself. We'll see what tomorrow brings....

[Bluey's Dad 3,419]

I don't really think any media organisation should be endorsing any party or candidate.

[[email protected] 101]

Tony Abbott's favourite word is "Gunna" Have a good listen to this man who will be Prime Minister tomorrow..Somebody ought to give him a friendly nudge and inform him that a Gunna/gunner is the pronunciation used to describe a certain type of military occupation, not in reference to some intended action to be carried out in the future. Hopefully he doesn't stand up and give too many speeches on behalf of our country before he learns how to at least express himself correctly .I Cannot remember his predecessor John Howard punishing the English language in such a manner.."Love" the way he expertly dodged the question on the filtering of Adult content on mobile phones when he was challenged about the leaked Liberal policy yesterday. and.. Giving less handouts to Foreign countries..(please explain). hooray for Pauline Hanson.(originally a Liberal Party member). She expressed a similar policy several years ago....

[MadAsHell 4,212]

I don't really think any media organisation should be endorsing any party or candidate.

I agree with you Choke, unfortunatly though media being fair and balanced went out of fashion a long time ago to the extent we see it across all forms of news from politics to sport to world affairs. They're all pushing their own agenda.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

As i said your reasons come straight from the ALP book on how to denigrate Tony Abbott so I don't take much notice of them.

You may be ok with the flood of Economic Refugees, arriving unannounced by boat, stretching the capacity of the Navy and putting our sailors lives at risk, but I'm not. There are laws governing this Country and its right to choose who does and who doesn't stay here.

Good luck with the house hunting and stay away from the earthquake zones.

Signing out.

You do know very few asylum seekers come by boat, right?

Most arrive by plane.

Personally I can not stand either side attempt to make cheap political points over this issue.

.

I don't have a great deal of time for either Rudd or Abbott.

The next three years are going to be so much fun in Australia.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

Tony Abbott is a loser

The man is creepy and seedy as you can get. I would vote for Pauline Hanson if she was running against him. Thats how bad he is.

How can anyone even think of voting for him? Mind boggling

I get the feeling like Rudd he will not make it as PM for one whole term.

Once he can not blame someone else for the worlds/Australia's problems what else will he do?

And why the ALP have Rudd as Leader again is just mind blowing.

Did they not know Roos was available to lead their team to victory?

Well their loss is the MFC's gain!

[Dee Fan 3,247]

And someone has the temerity to say that Abbott is an international disgrace; do you really want this guy as Prime Minister? Careful Adult Content and likely to offend anyone with half a brain.

Edited September 6, 2013 by RobbieF

[DemonFrog 1,354]

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Labor's culture and the risk matrix that rated adverse publicity worse than death

6a0177444b0c2e970d019aff3c88d2970c-pi

[Grapeviney 9,717]

There's only going to be one man in Australia feeling worse than Kevin Rudd tonight and that's Peter Costello, the man who who didn't have the bottle to become Prime Minister.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Final paragraph from The Age's open letter in their editorial in today's paper page 20.

"The Age believes in economic and social progress, in liberty and justice, in equality and compassion, and openness of government. We believe the role of government is to build a strong, fair nation for future generations, and not to pander to sectional interests. It is with these values in mind that we endorse the Labor Party in this important election."

You can read the full letter here: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/the-age-editorial/labors-policies-best-reflect-our-values-20130905-2t828.html

Couldn't of said it any better myself. We'll see what tomorrow brings....

Business groups push Liberals to axe penalty rates - September 7, 2013 : timely this is...

Australia's most influential business and industry groups will renew their push to reduce penalty rates for workers on Sundays and public holidays - particularly in retail, tourism and hospitality - if Tony Abbott becomes prime minister.

The Coalition has promised existing workplace laws will remain largely in place if it wins government, but has pledged to run a Productivity Commission review of the industrial relations system. But a wide coalition of business groups says action must be taken quickly to cut penalty rates particularly on Sundays, when pay rates in retail jump to more than $40.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politics/federal-election-2013/business-groups-push-liberals-to-axe-penalty-rates-20130906-2tau7.html#ixzz2eCIRn2eK

[dee-luded 2,959]

I get the feeling like Rudd he will not make it as PM for one whole term.

Once he can not blame someone else for the worlds/Australia's problems what else will he do?

And why the ALP have Rudd as Leader again is just mind blowing.

Did they not know Roos was available to lead their team to victory?

Well their loss is the MFC's gain!

they're going to a double dissolution, I'm sure of it.. thats why they went so soft thru the Electioneering, doing the soft sell !

butter the people up,,, make nice to them, suck them in,,,, then in 8 or 9 months time, they'll go to a double dissolution election, to try to get control of the Senate.

Then BANGO !!! all hell will break loose.

[Crompton's the man 659]

lol.

But seriously, Abbott actually is a Rhodes Scholar.

Yes

And in what ? you may ask

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Yes

And in what ? you may ask

Abbott has a Bachelor of Economics a Bachelor of Laws and a Master of Arts as a Rhodes Scholar Queens College Oxford.

That answer your question?

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Well this should give the Labor Party the opportunity to rid themselves of the corruption that is endemic in the party, but knowing them they will simply replace one Craig Thompson with another, one Gillard with another and as quick as you can max out a credit card at a Thai Brothel we'll have another Albanese as deputy leader.

Hell there's even talk of replacing "Elbo" with the wife of a convicted drug dealer; come on down Plibersik.

I suppose they can't get rid of all the corrupt members, cause if they did they wouldn't be able to hold quorum.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

Abbott has a Bachelor of Economics a Bachelor of Laws and a Master of Arts as a Rhodes Scholar Queens College Oxford.

That answer your question?

I must get some of those degrees myself as well as clearly they must be giving them away to anyone.

[DemonFrog 1,354]

Well this should give the Labor Party the opportunity to rid themselves of the corruption that is endemic in the party, but knowing them they will simply replace one Craig Thompson with another, one Gillard with another and as quick as you can max out a credit card at a Thai Brothel we'll have another Albanese as deputy leader.

Hell there's even talk of replacing "Elbo" with the wife of a convicted drug dealer; come on down Plibersik.

I suppose they can't get rid of all the corrupt members, cause if they did they wouldn't be able to hold quorum.

LOL

I sure all parties have scum bags in them as is the case with any organisation.

Did not Craig Thompson leave the Party?

It appeared to me the issue about Gillard was a case of sling mud (I personal have no time for her and was glad to see the back of her) was there anything proven against her?

The other I don't know what you think they done but clearly you have a bised view with regards to Labor, so unfortunitely unless you can back those comment with facts, I can not believe you.

I not see or heard there is endemic corruption in the Labor party and therefore think you been listing to your mate Mr Abbott for too long.

Interesting to see what you will say when issues arise in the Liberal party, my guess is nothing as you appear to be a Fan Boy!

Not that you will listen to my advise but it better to be a swinging voter as both parties give swing electorates much more goodies while safe ones get very little.

I would agree that there was too much power being placed in factional leaders and there was too many disloyal members.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I must get some of those degrees myself as well as clearly they must be giving them away to anyone.

That's possibly the dumbest post I've ever seen on here.