I'm probably Dean Terlich's biggest fan, but last night was by far his worst game of the year. His opponents regularly kick bags against him, and he has virtually ceased winning one on ones over the past few weeks.

We have to remember though that he is a first year player, and the year is long long long for all but the best first year players.

I disagree with giving the "his a first year player" to mature age recruits. If he needs years to develop then it defeats the purpose of recruiting mature aged players. They should be ready from the get go or we may as well draft kids and develop them so we get more years from them

We have been a joke for 6 years both on and off the field.

Numerous things are under way to fix the off field.

I have confidence that this time we are going after a senior successful coach

who can produce a team capable of getting us out of the bottom half of the ladder.

He will need to start with a lot of cred because we are going to be ordinary in 2014 and will hopefully win a few more games in 2015

Only someone of this type will be able to carry the members and Sponsors for a long time.

However we will not improve until a substantial number of players are replaced with AFL standard types.

The number that need replacing is probably 20+ now obviously this is going to take some time.

My estimate three years at roughly 6 - 7 per year.

A very long haul awaits us.

The new coach will have a big bearing on who the captain is in 2014.

It should not be Trengove not sure that it should be Grimes either

IMO Trengove is a good half forward, in that spot he will be a good player but I doubt he will ever be more than that.

Grimes is a half back. The sooner we get some real mid fielders the sooner these two can play in the spots the are suited too.

and we can stop trying to make them mid fielders.

A very long haul awaits the MFC, steely resolve is needed!

I think maybe Neeld was sacked because he had won what 5 games out of 40 something, made some terrible off field decisions and had more 100 point losses next to his name than anyone i have ever seen apart from perhaps Kevin sheedy at GWS, either way he wasn't good enough.

Neil craig IMO has come in and done exactly what we needed him too, united the playing group, helped the boys enjoy their footy again and has them playing around where i think we hoped they would this year anyway, with mitch clark fit and craig coaching all year we may have won 5-6 games, had a few tight ones and not been blown away, but does he have them playing out of their skin and members getting back on board? no, but he is doing okay.

what you have to understand is that it would take a pre season for the players to shift to Neil craigs style and for him to get everything in place, we aren't seeing the new game style and list changes he might implement next year if he stays on, just a man trying to recover from our clubs greatest coaching mistake in a long time.

Good points, as well as that it takes a while to nurture and build up confidence, especially considering how it was absolutely destroyed by Neeld.

Okay, I'll bite.

The Geelong loss was a disaster.

You spent so much of your time potting Mark Neeld that you think Craig has 'fixed' things - surely you jest?

Who picks a team that's full of talls in those atrocious conditions?

Who allows a Brownlow medallist to rack up 30+ possessions, with NOT ONE opponent on him?

Geelong players were laughing, clapping, high fiving....the ultimate disrespect.

Make no mistake, the 10 goals loss was awful and Saturday night was not much better.

On top of that, we have players threatening not to re-sign if a certain coach had stayed. What happens? The reactive CEO, under the orders of the AFL, sacks the coach.

Great! We roll on with undisciplined players, down hill skiers and threats of player walk outs.

As one poster so aptly put it...for this club, 'what does pillow taste like?'

jumbo has someone hacked your account? You are generally one of the more measured posters but you seem to have gone off on a tabloid, hyperbolic tangent..

The Geelong game a disaster? Hardly. 186 was a disaster. The game against Essendon this year was a disaster. Keep in mind that Freo could only manage 1 inside 50 in the 3rd quarter in dry conditions in their game down at the Cattery. Also keep in mind that contrary to popular belief wet weather accentuates the skill gap between good and poor sides. I thought we resisted them quite well actually.

Saturday night not much better? We were competitive through the whole game and played with spirit in trying conditions. In the immortal words of the little fella from different strokes " whatch ya talking about Willis?"

The reactive CEO sacked the coach because of a player revolt? Surely you jest. The coach sacked himself. A coach never survives repeated maulings of the sort we received, would have continue to receive if he had stayed and have not been on the end of since he was sacked.

Bad hair day Jumbo?

Edited July 22, 201311 yr by binman

I'm not sure a priority pick is going to help, other than in the long term. We need big bodied mids to give our poor kids a bit of time to develop in the VFL. Look at teams like Collingwood, they have 21 year olds who have only just broken into the team. Our 21 year olds have been flogged 35 out of 38 games by the time they are that old.

Toumpas, Kent et al shouldn't be in the seniors, they should be in the magoos. But then we'd have to take Jordie and Nicho, and no thanks to that.

Surely the first three players to be delisted or traded (if possible but probably no value) would be Toumpas (no idea ,just seems to run aimlessly around packs without real purpose and I know he has supporters on this site) Nicholson (no clues and cannot kick) and Jordy (sorry but not up to AFL senior standard)... we must be ruthless now and clean out this list and these are probably only three of at least 8 that we must be looking at.. Slow process but needs to be done.. Waited long enough for this club to start making positive moves and stop persevering with sub standard players...

whining??

Give me a break. How bout we all stop copping rubbish.

1 goal in the last quarter is not acceptable. That's when games are won.

You are under at least two delusions.

The first is that a whinging, whining, pessimistic keyboard warrior on Demonland will have any effect at all on the club itself and its results. It won't. Do you think that the coaches and players care what a whiner on Demonland says? This 'copping rubbish' delusion is common with supporters of every lowly-placed club, but it's a waste of breath (or chicken manure). It's disheartening to all the other supporters who still retain some optimism, or who prefer to look at the situation from a more rational, considered perspective. Try thinking about what message you are sending to everyone else before pressing 'enter' on your next missive of total negativity.

The second is that you think change and a whole lot of sackings will just fix things. It won't. Yes, I agree the club has been rubbish for a long time and that it's hard for supporters to cop. I've been following the Demons since the 1950s, and I'm as sick as anyone about the club's lack of success. But we've just got to keep trying, and suggesting, and analysing, and hoping, and supporting. My years of following Melbourne since I saw the 1964 premiership are heartbreaking, but I'm not going to give up now and become a whiner like you. Never.

The reality is that from where we are now until at least the end of the year, when we start the merry-go-round again, is just going to be small steps. We've have made some small steps and it's a long process. At least be thankful for them and be more realistic.

Here's a challenge: for every bit of negativity you want to spread about the club, try spreading one little bit of positivity. Everyone here will appreciate you more, and you'll lighten the mood. You might feel a little happier in yourself.

Go on ... I know it's hard ... but at least give it a try.

Far too early to be making calls on the Toump.

I'll tell you one thing we don't need and it's a list clean out.

I'll tell you one thing we don't need and it's a list clean out.

No wholesale change but a spring clean none the less is certainly required. For no other reason than to make some space. How much ? We'll see

Okay, I'll bite.

The Geelong loss was a disaster.

You spent so much of your time potting Mark Neeld that you think Craig has 'fixed' things - surely you jest?

Who picks a team that's full of talls in those atrocious conditions?

Who allows a Brownlow medallist to rack up 30+ possessions, with NOT ONE opponent on him?

Geelong players were laughing, clapping, high fiving....the ultimate disrespect.

Make no mistake, the 10 goals loss was awful and Saturday night was not much better.

Team full of talls, allowing Johnson (I presume) to get 30+ possessions (who is not a Brownlow medallist)...you're nitpicking here.

Under Neeld we played what I would regard as the worst football I've ever seen Melbourne play. We could not sustain our effort. We regularly got thumped...including by ordinary teams. We were completely and utterly uncompetitive in all games bar one or two. We trailed GWS by three goals at the MCG. Players weren't happy. The team played with no spirit, no belief in what they were doing and who they were doing it for. The players had no confidence. Going to the footy was absolutely agonising.

Under Craig, we've been competitive for longer, we've sustained our efforts for most of the game, we're starting to play with some confidence, belief and spirit. We're scoring more, keeping possession more and transitioning the ball better.

Let's not forget we have the worst midfield in the competition - no matter who is coaching us it's an uphill battle each week given our midfield stocks. I reckon Craig has the team performing at an expected level. Under Neeld we were miles off our expected level.

You mention the Geelong game and I agree it was terrible, but we maintained our effort and fight for four quarters. It was a long, long way away from games against Port, Essendon, Fremantle, Gold Coast, Hawthorn, etc. earlier in the year when our effort just completely dropped away.

To ignore all the improvements and focus on such trivial matters as picking too many talls (note Geelong also had Lonergan, Taylor, Blicavs, Simpson, Hawkins and Podsiadly in the team - one less "tall" than us) and letting Steve Johnson get 38 touches (he torches most teams and has done so against us in the past) is ridiculous.

I'll tell you one thing we don't need and it's a list clean out.

So you are happy with this lot AJ?

No wholesale change but a spring clean none the less is certainly required. For no other reason than to make some space. How much ? We'll see

Seven at the end of 2013 followed by 7 in 2015 follow by 6 in 2015.

Seven at the end of 2013 followed by 7 in 2015 follow by 6 in 2015.

there ya go !!!

jumbo has someone hacked your account? You are generally one of the more measured posters but you seem to have gone off on a tabloid, hyperbolic tangent..

The Geelong game a disaster? Hardly. 186 was a disaster. The game against Essendon this year was a disaster. Keep in mind that Freo could only manage 1 inside 50 in the 3rd quarter in dry conditions in their game down at the Cattery. Also keep in mind that contrary to popular belief wet weather accentuates the skill gap between good and poor sides. I thought we resisted them quite well actually.

Saturday night not much better? We were competitive through the whole game and played with spirit in trying conditions. In the immortal words of the little fella from different strokes " whatch ya talking about Willis?"

The reactive CEO sacked the coach because of a player revolt? Surely you jest. The coach sacked himself. A coach never survives repeated maulings of the sort we received, would have continue to receive if he had stayed and have not been on the end of since he was sacked.

Bad hair day Jumbo?

Mate, I'm having a shocker and I'm close to giving up on footy.

Django tells me to hang in there, and I'm trying, but we have massive problems, notwithstanding a very ordinary list.

I'm traumatised at the thought of another wasted draft.

Btw, there's no hair

IF we had Spencer's effort, desire and strength with Gawn's mobility & skill we'd have the next Dean Cox on our hands!

IF we had Spencer's effort, desire and strength with Gawn's mobility & skill we'd have the next Dean Cox on our hands!

I think it's harsh of Gawn to question his effort. Question his fitness and strength but his effort at following up the play and having a dip is almost on par with Spencer. He's also more agile than Spencer but less pacey as you say. No ruckman in the league is as quick as Spencer I'd guess besides NicNat.

I was really disappointed with Gawn's lack of spoil on Leueny late but remember Leueny is the best mobile ruckman besides Cox, better than NicNat.

But if you watch the next few ruck contests Gawn won them and to advantage. In fact I thought Gawn's tap ruck work was better than Leueny's on the weekend.

My first opinion on all this was wondering how people who have Foxtel manage not to go all Elvis Presley on their flat screens when they have to listen to Dermott. I had the displeasure of listening to him as I was at a social event with fellow Melbourne supporters who happened to have Fox Footy. Seriously, what a [censored]. Mention it once, then maybe twice Derm and move on. We get it Toump hasn't got a touch. Do you need to be the self anointed marker of all young Melbourne players? Plus, realize you are a lad from the Mornington Penninsula and act like it. You try to sound like Brent Croswell but end up sounding like Dougie Hawkins with better pronunciation (in that what you both say is rot).

As for the result...

I thought about the fact that JB, Blacky and Beamer were out. I thought about where we started the year. I thought about the fiasco of the last 5 years and then I stopped...

Yet again, this is another loss. We can't be happy with this. When we look through the history books about what happened on Saturday night, it won't read 'Brisbane def. Melbourne (scoreline) but....' It will record yet another failure. The boys gave their best. Craigy has said it. Dawes said it weeks ago. Now I will say it again. Giving your best is good. Yet, it is a pass mark. In school terms, it will get you an E to a D+. What will get you a A's is a solid grasp of the subject area, a consistent commitment to self improvement and actual talent. We need to keep that in mind.

Edited July 22, 201311 yr by Guest

My first opinion on all this was wondering how people who have Foxtel manage not to go all Elvis Presley on their flat screens when they have to listen to Dermott. I had the displeasure of listening to him as I was at a social event with fellow Melbourne supporters who happened to have Fox Footy. Seriously, what a [censored]. Mention it once, then maybe twice Derm and move on. We get it Toump hasn't got a touch. Do you need to be the self anointed marker of all young Melbourne players? Plus, realize you are a lad from the Mornington Penninsula and act like it. You try to sound like Brent Croswell but end up sounding like Dougie Hawkins with better pronunciation (in that what you both say is rot).

As for the result...

I thought about the fact that JB, Blacky and Beamer were out. I thought about where we started the year. I thought about the fiasco of the last 5 years and then I stopped...

Yet again, this is another loss. We can't be happy with this. When we look through the history books about what happened on Saturday night, it won't read 'Brisbane def. Melbourne (scoreline) but....' It will record yet another failure. The boys gave their best. Craigy has said it. Dawes said it weeks ago. Now I will say it again. Giving your best is good. Yet, it is a pass mark. In school terms, it will get you an E to a D+. What will get you a A's is a solid grasp of the subject area, a consistent commitment to self improvement and actual talent. We need to keep that in mind.

His new favourite phrase of "pearl harbouring" a player in reference to a player sneaking up on another ie under a high ball and taking them out is completely insulting to war veterans.

What's the legitimate question, Wyl, what does Darren Glass do to inspire his players, he is as quite as a mouse but he generally beats his opponent and never gets towelled up, same as I pointed out to you last year about Trenners. Nick Maxwell hardly a gifted talent but like Trengove he does all the 1%ers required and you know what football is actually a very easy game made difficult by players and coaches.

Trenners is fairly level headed, our best tackler and you have no idea what he does at the club day to day and neither do I.

Don't put yourself on some pedestal that you have higher expectations than the rest of us because you want a flag, FFS crawl before you run, they take time and if you want to be serious hard yards are needed, tough times and don't give me any of this we've been carp for the last 7 years. News flash we started again last season and have sorted out the spine for a decent few years to come.

Yes I want a flag, but they are hard to win, I would like to be a contender for a decent stretch, our list is actually not that bad a few tweaks and the right decisions will sort us out in the same manner the Tigers have turned things around since 2010.

Trenners will never be a Judd, Ablett type but he will continue to be a solid contributor on our list for a long long time

hahaha! People like yourself will still be talking up "positive improvement" even if we lose to GW$ in a couple of weeks.

You accept the last 7 years with an "oh well" shrug the shoulders & start again.

I don't. I still cannot believe that Mclardy & Schwab have been able to leave the organization without saying a word whilst the club is now under administration...What actually happened to our money??

The fact we actually tanked for 2 years for $cully & Trengove is another novel in waiting.

But if you are happy PSD that's the main thing..Trenners is very level headed & that as we all know is a very MFC prerequisite isn't it.

Perception is reality with this club.

hahaha! People like yourself will still be talking up "positive improvement" even if we lose to GW$ in a couple of weeks.

You accept the last 7 years with an "oh well" shrug the shoulders & start again.

I don't. I still cannot believe that Mclardy & Schwab have been able to leave the organization without saying a word whilst the club is now under administration...What actually happened to our money??

The fact we actually tanked for 2 years for $cully & Trengove is another novel in waiting.

But if you are happy PSD that's the main thing..Trenners is very level headed & that as we all know is a very MFC prerequisite isn't it.

Perception is reality with this club.

if its not accepted with an oh well shrug of the shoulders, what are you proposing it be accepted with?

no matter how bad its been it cant be changed , we can only accept it and move on

the result of the last 7 years is to make sure it doesn't go down that road again

I don't think people are happy with whats happened its just that the past can only be improved on and not changed

at least some posters are seeing the positive and not the negatives for a change

Edited July 22, 201311 yr by jazza

hahaha! People like yourself will still be talking up "positive improvement" even if we lose to GW$ in a couple of weeks.

You accept the last 7 years with an "oh well" shrug the shoulders & start again.

I don't. I still cannot believe that Mclardy & Schwab have been able to leave the organization without saying a word whilst the club is now under administration...What actually happened to our money??

The fact we actually tanked for 2 years for $cully & Trengove is another novel in waiting.

But if you are happy PSD that's the main thing..Trenners is very level headed & that as we all know is a very MFC prerequisite isn't it.

Perception is reality with this club.

Typical WYL say we accept mediocrity but don't answer the question posed to you regard Trengove, I'll answer it for you as it's obvious "Really I don't know my lack of football knowledge is obvious and I can't analytically answer questions anyone puts to me once they put me on the spot with facts"

Don't bother answering WYL I am over you whining, it's people with short vision and quick fixes that have us in this mess!

hahaha! People like yourself will still be talking up "positive improvement" even if we lose to GW$ in a couple of weeks.

You accept the last 7 years with an "oh well" shrug the shoulders & start again.

I don't. I still cannot believe that Mclardy & Schwab have been able to leave the organization without saying a word whilst the club is now under administration...What actually happened to our money??

The fact we actually tanked for 2 years for $cully & Trengove is another novel in waiting.

But if you are happy PSD that's the main thing..Trenners is very level headed & that as we all know is a very MFC prerequisite isn't it.

Perception is reality with this club.

Why don't you read the financial reports to find out where the money is gone.

We made small profits the last few years and got back to a reasonable financial position but our revenue hasn't plummeted this year and next on the back of horrendous on field performance and our expenses has increased on the back of Schwab and Neeld's severance pay. What do you want Schwab to say? Oh I'm sorry I deliberately stuffed up because we know he didn't do that. Or for him to do a Mickey Arthur and sue the pants off us? Be grateful he's gone and gone quietly.

As for the tanking look at the facts. We were rubbish in 2008. That was part of the cycle of success that happens to all clubs we just amplified it. 2008 was as much a reflection on Daniher and his poor list management and development from 2004 when he sensed a flag to 2007 when the wheels fell of unexpectantly. 2009 we tanked for half a season. We had signs of improvement in the middle of the year but decided to abandon them in search of a better 2010 and on wards. In hindsight a poor decision but not in any way one that hadn't be done before - I speak of Collingwood 2005 to get Thomas and Pendlebury, West Coast recently, Carlton 2008.

Of course perception is reality and if we had stronger leadership in 2010 we might have foreseen this mess. Or if we had stronger leadership heading in to 2011 we would've resolved the drama that went on that year. Heck we might have had stronger leadership if our president didn't get gravely ill and pass away.

But the reality is where we are at now. We have a new CEO, are assembling a new board and having a playing list that has gone from worst ever as of a month ago to one that now shows some signs of life. How don't you see that all as improvements?

Typical WYL say we accept mediocrity but don't answer the question posed to you regard Trengove, I'll answer it for you as it's obvious "Really I don't know my lack of football knowledge is obvious and I can't analytically answer questions anyone puts to me once they put me on the spot with facts"

Don't bother answering WYL I am over you whining, it's people with short vision and quick fixes that have us in this mess!

Attitudes like yours allow the club to be crap every year.

The answer on Trengove is simple. He is slow and can only kick a short distance. Hardly captain or a number 2 draft pick.

But then we are Melbourne aern't we.

Also, Dean Terlich needs to learn that he's not superman. He continually tries to run through tackles and gets caught. Nathan Jones used to be like that, but has improved, and Terlich needs to take a leaf out of his book.

He also needs to tighten up defensively, it seems his opponents are kicking a few goals against him.

I agree. although its frustrating why Nathan Jones always tries to stand up and lock up the tackle after the centre bounce. Very rarely would you see Selwood, Hodge or Mitchell do this. Theirs is the second possession and a fast clearance. Understand our midfield is in dire need of good stock but that is one part of Jonesy's game that frustrates me - always locking up the contest - not trying to clear it.

I agree. although its frustrating why Nathan Jones always tries to stand up and lock up the tackle after the centre bounce. Very rarely would you see Selwood, Hodge or Mitchell do this. Theirs is the second possession and a fast clearance. Understand our midfield is in dire need of good stock but that is one part of Jonesy's game that frustrates me - always locking up the contest - not trying to clear it.

It is a habit that Moloney also had, I think part of it is trying to do it all himself which is understandable with our mids but we must learn to share it around if we are going to be any good.