On 25/06/2013 at 03:43, deanox said:

If the afl don't follow the asada recommendations would they be risking sponsorship, funding from government etc?

They would be the only spring body in the world to ignore a wada direction.

I think you will find the senate inquiry into sport cost the afl a lot of money because they refused to obey and agree to wada asada rules on the drug policy

that's why they lost gov funding and arrogantly stood by their 3 strikes policy when asada told them publicy it was crazy to have a 3 strike rule and a get out of jail clause also stopping them from accepting gov funds unless they obeyed drugs in sport code

If ASADA finds Bomber players guilty, I wonder how the AFL will wangle it so there are no suspensions and Watson will keep his Brownlow. No way the AFL will allow such severe brand damage.

  On 25/06/2013 at 03:41, cunnerz09 said:

The AFL will be in a very public arena when making those decisions so I think they will have to take that into account. What would be worse for them, the view that a side has cheated or that the AFL is weak when handing out punishments. I know which one of those scenarios I would take if I was Demetriou.

Of course the AFL will follow the ASADA recommended punishments if the bombers are found to be guilty. But is suspect they will be involved in discussions with ASADA about what those recommendations might be. People bring up the example of wade Lees but the VFL is not in the same league as the AFL, so to speak.

  On 25/06/2013 at 04:05, binman said:

Of course the AFL will follow the ASADA recommended punishments if the bombers are found to be guilty. But is suspect they will be involved in discussions with ASADA about what those recommendations might be. People bring up the example of wade Lees but the VFL is not in the same league as the AFL, so to speak.

I agree but you can't have different punishments for different levels. That is extreme double standards and would be like if two guys each murdered someone but one was a celebrity and one was jus a normal person and they got a harsher penalty because they weren't a celebrity. I hope the AFL come down hard to show that this is not tolerated no matter who you are. If they don't well then it will be another example of the AFL trying to be a law onto themselves and a corrupt business.

I think the deciding issue will be the consent forms the players signed.

Presumably the form contained a list of possible supplements, and the guarantee of the club (doctors/CEO/???) that all supplements were legal, and allowed. This safeguards the players.

By players signing the form, the club is safe guarded.

It all depends on the length players are expected to go to to establish whether a drug is permitted or not.

My guess is the players will be exonerated (because they have asked for and received a written guarantee that the supplements were permitted), and the club and some officials will be absolutely pulverised. (Massive fines and officials banned.)

  On 25/06/2013 at 04:05, binman said:

Of course the AFL will follow the ASADA recommended punishments if the bombers are found to be guilty. But is suspect they will be involved in discussions with ASADA about what those recommendations might be. People bring up the example of wade Lees but the VFL is not in the same league as the AFL, so to speak.

Yeah and the AFL aren't in the same league as WADA, it's game over for the Bombers, it doesn't matter if your Wade Lees or Jobe Watson the same penaltys apply, Watsons just trying to limit the blow that's about to come his way from the public, it's laughable to think there going to get off because there a big club, what kind of message would WADA send to the rest of the world if they let people of through ignorance.

  On 25/06/2013 at 04:11, Mono said:

I think the deciding issue will be the consent forms the players signed.

Presumably the form contained a list of possible supplements, and the guarantee of the club (doctors/CEO/???) that all supplements were legal, and allowed. This safeguards the players.

By players signing the form, the club is safe guarded.

It all depends on the length players are expected to go to to establish whether a drug is permitted or not.

My guess is the players will be exonerated (because they have asked for and received a written guarantee that the supplements were permitted), and the club and some officials will be absolutely pulverised. (Massive fines and officials banned.)

I agree. Jobes orchestrated comments are all about building a case that the players did all in their power to ensure they were not breaking any rules. It ís frequently bandied about that there are no excuses (except if you are say unconscious) but perhaps the AFL plan to test this aspect. But yes that would still mean the club would get smashed, as they should. It should also mean Hird gets smashed, as he should.

Then there is the charges of bringing the game into disrepute that surely the AFL will level once the ASADA penalties have been applied. If the penalties handed out to MFC on this charge are any guide should be millions in fines, possible draft penalties (as after all they were searching for an unfair advantage) and suspensions to at least Hird.

This is interesting:- Watson responsible for AOD-9604 use, says WADA boss Fahey

John Fahey saying WADA can intervene if they don't like the results of the investigation.

Meanwhile, Timmy has apparently been at it on the radio this morning. I didn't hear him but according to the ABC he says he's got 'confidential information' that the players have done nothing wrong. Whatever Essendon think they're doing, they're certainly ramping it up.

  On 25/06/2013 at 04:53, Dr John Dee said:

This is interesting:- Watson responsible for AOD-9604 use, says WADA boss Fahey

John Fahey saying WADA can intervene if they don't like the results of the investigation.

Meanwhile, Timmy has apparently been at it on the radio this morning. I didn't hear him but according to the ABC he says he's got 'confidential information' that the players have done nothing wrong. Whatever Essendon think they're doing, they're certainly ramping it up.

Key comments:

"You are responsible for what goes into your system, it's a strict liability," Fahey told AFL.com.au.

"Now whether or not there's any mitigating circumstances depends on individual cases, and that's a matter for ASADA who are currently investigating it."

Mitigating circumstances is what they are obviously going to argue

I haven't involved myself in the nuts and bolts on this issue, but was a doctor directly involved in the administration or prescription of the drug Jobe took? If not, he is a stupid young man as he will need to take full responsibility of his actions which means the full repercussions of a ban and loss of his Brownlow.

I get the feeling that the adjudication on this issue will occur at the end of the EFC's season, which will mean a short term ban to players occurring in per season. Then the Bombers only lose players to training.

The AFL will argue that taking banned substances is akin to the tanking (but not tanking) issue at the Dees and they will get a $500000 fine.

How long did Warnie get for swallowing a pill from his mum? Was it a year? Either way Jobe is AT LEAST akin to Warnie. As a sportsman if you take substances without direct contact from your doctor, you are stupid therefore negligent and guilty

If the AFL go light on Essendon (somehow wrangle a deal because it is technically out of their hands) they want to be mighty clear on what they are allowing because it opens the door for all the other clubs to keep pushing the envelope.

Integrity. What an over used word.

Perhaps the saddest part about all of this is that a whole lot of young kids were injected with stuff that probably did nothing to help them physically but may cause health problems later in life.

I don't agree with many posters on here who seem to take joy in the suffering of Essendon and by extension, their players and those players' families. This whole affair tarnishes what most of us would agree is the best game in the world. I hate drug cheats and those who pressure sporting figures to take them. If it is not already, I'd love to see those who expose sports people unwittingly to such risks, to be subject to criminal sanctions, not just suspensions or fines imposed by sporting organisations or WADA/ASADA.

Good point WYL. Jobe is not just any player, he is a club captain and high profile champion to the game. He sets the standard to his playing group and the club. He needs to act with integrity at all times. If he took drugs blindly without the going through the correct channels he is more guilty than the playing group he represents. If my personal trainer said take this IV, I would sound out advise from my doctor who I trust, not just any doctor.

  On 25/06/2013 at 02:47, monoccular said:

It is a bit like the poster on the Spencer tribunal thread said - the AFL do treat their "favourites" very differently from their "easy targets".

I do wonder if they will have the fortitude to follow through on the verdict handed down. If ASADA say they need to suspend the players for a year or more, will the AFL bite the bullet and do it, or will they take the massive loss of credibility and give a half-assed penalty to the club while sparing the players?

  On 25/06/2013 at 05:19, Demonsterative said:

I haven't involved myself in the nuts and bolts on this issue, but was a doctor directly involved in the administration or prescription of the drug Jobe took? If not, he is a stupid young man as he will need to take full responsibility of his actions which means the full repercussions of a ban and loss of his Brownlow.

Nope. No doctor was involved. That is part of the issue the AFL have been investigating, that the doctors were cut out of the process.

I have to wonder why Jobe Watson is still playing right now. When Lees was charged, he was banned from playing for the duration of the investigation. That's eight months prior to the hearing, presumed guilty and unable to take part in any professional sporting event. Now Watson has admitted to taking a banned substance, surely the same must apply?

I was listening to SEN earlier today and they had the WADA banned list up and were making a point that the drug in question was not specifically mentioned at the time they were using it and that this could be a defence. If they do have a blanket ban on substances not approved for human use then that would squash this line, but they were saying that it is the tack the Bombers plan on using.

I don't take any joy at this issue. I hate Essendon mostly as their supporters are feral. I like to watch Essendon play, but I am very suspicious when I look at their playing group. EVERYONE is solid through the core, hips and arse. Even Davey has good size for a twig.

they absolutely have a catch all clause on substances not approved for human use.

think about the implications of "not approved for human use" means.

here are some things that are not approved for human use;

bleach

cyanide

asbestos

  On 25/06/2013 at 05:34, Demonsterative said:

Good point WYL. Jobe is not just any player, he is a club captain and high profile champion to the game. He sets the standard to his playing group and the club. He needs to act with integrity at all times. If he took drugs blindly without the going through the correct channels he is more guilty than the playing group he represents. If my personal trainer said take this IV, I would sound out advise from my doctor who I trust, not just any doctor.

what i wonder is whether ASADA & WADA have differing standards & whether 1 out ranks the other in this case.

That will be a major point for sure.

  On 25/06/2013 at 05:35, RalphiusMaximus said:

I do wonder if they will have the fortitude to follow through on the verdict handed down. If ASADA say they need to suspend the players for a year or more, will the AFL bite the bullet and do it, or will they take the massive loss of credibility and give a half-assed penalty to the club while sparing the players? Nope. No doctor was involved. That is part of the issue the AFL have been investigating, that the doctors were cut out of the process. I have to wonder why Jobe Watson is still playing right now. When Lees was charged, he was banned from playing for the duration of the investigation. That's eight months prior to the hearing, presumed guilty and unable to take part in any professional sporting event. Now Watson has admitted to taking a banned substance, surely the same must apply? I was listening to SEN earlier today and they had the WADA banned list up and were making a point that the drug in question was not specifically mentioned at the time they were using it and that this could be a defence. If they do have a blanket ban on substances not approved for human use then that would squash this line, but they were saying that it is the tack the Bombers plan on using.

Thank RM, I work in an industry where medication is administered. Policy says only a nurse can administer drugs with written documentation signed from the doctor. This documentation is to be viewed by clients and even so, the right of refusal is open to the client. If they don't refuse they are responsible for any issues that may arise. This is very basic policy within the industry. Same should be for any footballer.

  On 25/06/2013 at 05:41, Demonsterative said:

I don't take any joy at this issue. I hate Essendon mostly as their supporters are feral. I like to watch Essendon play, but I am very suspicious when I look at their playing group. EVERYONE is solid through the core, hips and arse. Even Davey has good size for a twig.

Adrianna xenediis has turned the G O N and her hand is on the E

Interesting article here.

  Quote

"There's strict liability here, there are no ifs or buts - if it's in your system, you take the consequences.

"The moment it's in your system, you're gone, full stop.''

Mr Fahey said it would be up to an individual sporting body -- in this case the AFL -- to decide whether to strip away Watson's Brownlow medal.

"Medals are taken off athletes all the time. Lance Armstrong lost his bronze medal from the Sydney Olympics it's going on all the time,'' he said.

From the sound of it, WADA are not planning on being gentle.

Also saw that they have stated clearly that AOD9604 is banned on the S0 list, and that there are no exceptions to this ban. The S0 list deals with substances that are not approved for use by humans.

Will a strike be recorded against is name?

Of course he is allowed to play this week. He is a golden boy. But if you are getting injected 30-40 times wouldnt alarm bells be ringing.

I dont want to say to much because its the same thing Jack is accused of having.

I like Jobe but surely his brownlow will be under question.

All I want to see happen to essendon is they get a massive fine and stripped of points this season. But who knows what Andrew D will do. The other golden boy is coaching the club and we all know how much the AFL love him.

So the Dees get $500K and two staff suspended for cheating by trying to lose, and Essendon get off for cheating to try and win. Better not happen.

  On 25/06/2013 at 06:32, dees189227 said:

I dont want to say to much because its the same thing Jack is accused of having.

You would hope they are regarded differently, given that Jacks case is a cream that may or may not have been given to him by the club doctors while Watson was injected repeatedly and admits it.

Ess revelled in the fact they were using the 'latest' in sports science to get an edge.

James Hird said "I take full responsibility for everything that has happened under my watch"

They pushed the envelope and they must pay the price.

Every athlete in the world using drugs would have their coach take the wrap to get them off the hook. Ess are no different. You simply cannot have a player blame a coach. It doesn't happen in any other world sport,. Why should it happen in the AFL??

Do you think Lance would have blamed the coach if he could? Do you think ben Johnson would have blamed his coach if he could? Do you think the CHinese swimmers and teh East German athletes should get off by blaming their coaches?

Can't happen Won't happen.

Funny how he was happy to answer questions last night but couldn't today because its an ongoing investigation. Also weren't clubs/players given two options when the story first broke. Come clean now and cop this much or play your games , still get caught and cop extra.