2014 off-season will be huge (list management)

[Number 2 13]

It’s the bye weekend and I have started thinking about the end of the season (join me, it is a colourful and happy place). Lets face it the remainder of 2013 will only bring more bad news and the sooner the off-season gets here, the sooner hope returns.

Personally, I think the upcoming off-season will be bigger than last years, and I also think it is vital for the future of our club.

Here are my views:

Potential List changes for the 2014 season: (10 or more changes)

In:

1. Hogan (added)
2. Magner (upgrade)
3. Couch (upgrade)
4. AFL Draft Round 1
5. AFL priority pick (???) – one can only hope
6. AFL Draft Round 2
7. AFL Draft Round 3
8. AFL Draft Round 4
9. Player traded in
10. Free Agent acquisition

Outs ??

We will need to make upward of 10 changes to facilitate recruitment of quality players via draft, free agency, upgrading and trades. My question is; who are the 10 players that will come off the list to facilitate these changes?

Sylvia, Davey, Watts, Gawn, Sellar & Jetta are all out of contract (& I am sure there are more) – how many do we re-sign?

I expect the club will move to sign young talent like Watts & Gawn, the others may not get the same attention.

You would think we would be active players at trade time (like what happened at the end of last season) to facilitate the list overhaul – who gets traded & who is added?

& finally who is in control of all of these decisions?

I know we are all hurting about the performance of this current team, but the 2014 team could be a vastly different looking Demons outfit.

From a list management perspective this off-season is our most important off-season in years. If we fail to get it right in Oct-Dec we are going to be in a world of hurt for 3-4 more years.

Your thoughts Demonlanders?

Reference:

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/news/2013-05-17/future-not-all-hell-for-the-demons

http://www.melbournefc.com.au/the-team/players/senior

[DemonWA 3,936]

its too early in the season for my brain to want to consider this type of stuff

[Number 2 13]

its too early in the season for my brain to want to consider this type of stuff

Never too early for list management DemonWA – I think I am wishing we were already in the off-season.

[Clark_Kent 315]

I wonder how many extra supporters Hogan playing his first game at the G will pull to the ground. I'm guessing at least 10K.

[titan_uranus 25,044]

FYI, here is rpfc's wonderfully comprehensive Contracts Thread.

OOC at the end of 2013 - Watts, Sylvia (UFA), Davey (RFA), Taggert, Gawn, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, MacDonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Rodan, Gillies, with Magner, Couch Clisby and Stark of the rookies

[olisik 4,060]

Why would we upgrade a rookie whose barely got a touch at afl level?

[mjt 640]

FYI, here is rpfc's wonderfully comprehensive Contracts Thread.

OOC at the end of 2013 - Watts, Sylvia (UFA), Davey (RFA), Taggert, Gawn, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, MacDonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Rodan, Gillies, with Magner, Couch Clisby and Stark of the rookies

Not a winner among the bunch, it's a sad state affairs when the best player out of that lot has done 2 ACLs.

[Clark_Kent 315]

Bold- Keep

Underline- Delist

Italic- Unsure

OOC at the end of 2013 - Watts, Sylvia (UFA), Davey (RFA), Taggert, Gawn, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, MacDonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Rodan, Gillies, with Magner, Couch Clisby and Stark of the rookies

[Red&BlueBlood 61]

if mitch is out for more than expected, couch should be upgraded now to give him a chance of proving himself at AFL level.

SURELY is your averaging over 30 touches a game in the VFL you can do something good at AFL level

[olisik 4,060]

if mitch is out for more than expected, couch should be upgraded now to give him a chance of proving himself at AFL level.

SURELY is your averaging over 30 touches a game in the VFL you can do something good at AFL level

Just what we need, another nqr mature aged mid to come in as a backfill for our best goal kicking forward.

[pm24 451]

I want to see us try and get Gorringe from the Gold Coast. 200cm's and can play ruck or forward. Could be a good option for the future.

As for the delist, retain arguments...

OOC at the end of 2013 - Watts, Sylvia (UFA), Davey (RFA), Taggert, Gawn, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, MacDonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Rodan, Gillies, with Magner, Couch Clisby and Stark of the rookies

Retain:

Watts, Sylvia, Davey, Taggert, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Davis, Rodan, Tynan (though not convinced), Gillies (still young and provides depth), Macdonald (I just think he's still got a bit to offer in terms of setting an example for the younger players) from the senior list.

Rookie List: Clisby and Stark

Delist:

Nicholson (just don't think he's up to it skill wise), Couch (he's good, but I don't think he'll be better than our developing young mids from the last draft (Viney, Toumpas, Jones) or what we might get in the next draft. .

Trade:

Out: Dunn, Sellar, Spencer (I would prefer to see Gorringe on the list over Spencer).

In: Gorringe, an established midfielder or developing midfielder with at least 3 preseasons under the belt. A good mid-sized defender with strong foot skills.

Uncertain:

Jetta, Magner

[Maldonboy38 6,406]

Sylvia, Watts and Gawn are the only 3 other clubs would show any interest in, maybe Jetta as well.

KEEP

Watts,

Davey

Gawn

Taggert

Tynan

Fitzpatrick

UPGRADE

Magner

TRADE

Sylvia

Jetta (maybe - hey, WCE took Morton)

DELIST

Nicholson, MacDonald, Sellar, Davis, Rodan, Gillies, Couch, Dunn

UNSURE

Clisby and Stark

EDIT: cannot believe I forgot to delist Dunn

Edited June 12, 2013 by Maldonboy38

[Adam The God 30,420]

Yeah, Couch is gone. Depending who we pick up, Magner may also make way.

Edited June 12, 2013 by AdamFarr

[CBDees 3,167]

Bold- Keep

Underline- Delist

Italic- Unsure

OOC at the end of 2013 - Watts, Sylvia (UFA), Davey (RFA), Taggert, Gawn, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, MacDonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Rodan, Gillies, with Magner, Couch Clisby and Stark of the rookies

I don't disagree with your choices but we should keep Clisby and Stark as rookies (and add two) as Cisby can be promoted early when we get an injury. I am still unsure on Magner and Couch, both of whom need to be either promoted or delisted, as I think they shine in the VFL but somehow are just below what we need to improve our midfield (particularly if we can retain Sylvia)!

[DeeSpencer 26,082]

Delist: Tynan, Spencer (regardless of contract), Nicholson, MacDonald, Jetta, Sellar, Rodan, Gillies, Magner ®, Couch ®

Trade Watts for second round draft pick

Trade Blease for third round draft pick

Let Sylvia walk and hope for second round pick compensation

Add Jessie Hogan

10 main list vacancies and 2 rookie vacancies which can be converted to 8 main list and 4 rookie vacancies

Draft picks: 2, 17 (PP), 19, 2nd round for Sylvia, 2nd round for Watts (would consider on trading this pick for a wanted player from another club, note: this is different to an unwanted recycled player), 3rd round for Blease, 4th round, PSD, free agent acquired that doesn't effect compensation

4 rounds of rookie draft selections including Tynan and Magner if they are available and Spencer if the AFL make us.

FB: Terlich Frawley Garland

HB: Dunn McDonald Grimes

C: Evans Jones Toumpas
HF: Byrnes Dawes Howe
FF: Davey Clark Hogan

Foll: Jamar Viney McKenzie

Int: Trengove, M. Jones, Tapscott, Kent

Ruck Depth: Gawn, Fitzpatrick

Tall defenders: Pedersen, Davis

Small defenders: Strauss, Tynan ®, Clisby ®

Midfield depth: Magner ®, Taggert, Barry, Stark ®
Small forwards: Bail

Base draft picks on best available but aim for midfielders. Other positions of need would be:
Small forward - to replace Davey and Byrnes

Another young ruck particularly if they have ruck/forward flexibility - to replace Jamar as Gawn moves up the depth chart

A mid sized defender particularly if they have midfield potential - to replace Dunn

I know this is controversial but I think we need to back our recruiting team to get in some good talents like they have this year and to move on from players who have been consistent under performers. And by that I think Sylvia, Watts and Blease as well as the delisted players. They aren't midfielders they really are 3 flashy in and out of the game forwards. Blease I don't think has much talent anyway. Watts just won't get physical whilst playing for Melbourne and Sylvia I don't think works hard enough on the field and if we can get a good pick then he's worth letting go.

[mauriesy 7,357]

No more 200cm beanpoles. We need mids, mids and more mids.

I'd happily move Sylvia, Jamar and Watts for quality, gutsy mids if the right trade came along.

Otherwise, rid ourselves of NQRs, sloppy kickers and dumb footballers.

In the draft and PSD, get mids, mids and more mids. Surely we've got to get a couple of successes if we blanket-bomb all the mids in the draft.

[CBDees 3,167]

I want to see us try and get Gorringe from the Gold Coast. 200cm's and can play ruck or forward. Could be a good option for the future.

As for the delist, retain arguments...

Retain:

Watts, Sylvia, Davey, Taggert, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Davis, Rodan, Tynan (though not convinced), Gillies (still young and provides depth), Macdonald (I just think he's still got a bit to offer in terms of setting an example for the younger players) from the senior list.

Rookie List: Clisby and Stark

Delist:

Nicholson (just don't think he's up to it skill wise), Couch (he's good, but I don't think he'll be better than our developing young mids from the last draft (Viney, Toumpas, Jones) or what we might get in the next draft. .

Trade:

Out: Dunn, Sellar, Spencer (I would prefer to see Gorringe on the list over Spencer).

In: Gorringe, an established midfielder or developing midfielder with at least 3 preseasons under the belt. A good mid-sized defender with strong foot skills.

Uncertain:

Jetta, Magner

If this is all hypothetical, why don't we attempt a trade of Nicholson, instead of Dunn/Sellar? After all, he has played more senior games this year than the other two and is younger and faster. Dunn/Sellar are both more versatile as they can play either end and injuries each year show we need depth.

[titan_uranus 25,044]

EDIT: cannot believe I forgot to delist Dunn

Can't - he's contracted till the end of 2014, thanks to a typically awful MFC decision at the end of last year to give him two more years.

To get him off the list we need to trade him, which isn't going to happen (no other club is dumb enough to want him).

[H_T 3,049]

We need mids, mids and more mids.

It's been my wish since pre-Scully/Trengove.

&*%!

[Watts Jurrah Dunn? 735]

Why would anyone trade for Sellar now, when they didn't 2 years ago?

Delist: Davey, Nicholson, Dunn, Rodan, Gillies, Spencer, Jetta, MacDonald, Strauss, Sellar, Bail, Byrnes.

I don't care if they are contracted.

Watts for Taylor Adams.

Couldn't care less about losing Sylvia.

Draft mids, mids and more mids, then two small forwards and a ruckman.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,233]

if mitch is out for more than expected, couch should be upgraded now to give him a chance of proving himself at AFL level.

SURELY is your averaging over 30 touches a game in the VFL you can do something good at AFL level

There is limited likelihood Magner or Couch will be retained. I am pretty sure returning through the VFL against Essendon at Windy Hill McKenzie dominated with over 40 disposals. This probably highlights the difference between the two levels.

[_becks_ 35]

OOC at the end of 2013 - Watts, Sylvia (UFA), Davey (RFA), Taggert, Gawn, Tynan, Fitzpatrick, Nicholson, MacDonald, Sellar, Jetta, Davis, Rodan, Gillies, with Magner, Couch Clisby andStark of the rookies

Watts - retain or trade

Sylvia - retain

Davey - ???

Taggert - retain

Gawn - retain

Tynan - retain

Fitzpatrick - retain

Nicolson - delist

MacDonald - delist

Sellar - delist

Jetta - retain

Davis - delist

Rodan - delist

Gillies - delist

Magner - retain

Couch - delist

Clisby and Stark - retain

Why oh why did we draft Gillies?

[Yossarian 1,820]

I want to see us try and get Gorringe from the Gold Coast. 200cm's and can play ruck or forward. Could be a good option for the future.

As for the delist, retain arguments...

Retain:

Watts, Sylvia, Davey, Taggert, Gawn, Fitzpatrick, Davis, Rodan, Tynan (though not convinced), Gillies (still young and provides depth), Macdonald (I just think he's still got a bit to offer in terms of setting an example for the younger players) from the senior list.

Rookie List: Clisby and Stark

Delist:

Nicholson (just don't think he's up to it skill wise), Couch (he's good, but I don't think he'll be better than our developing young mids from the last draft (Viney, Toumpas, Jones) or what we might get in the next draft. .

Trade:

Out: Dunn, Sellar, Spencer (I would prefer to see Gorringe on the list over Spencer).

In: Gorringe, an established midfielder or developing midfielder with at least 3 preseasons under the belt. A good mid-sized defender with strong foot skills.

Uncertain:

Jetta, Magner

Posts like these remind me why I like reading what you have to say. You're sensible, but really you're way too optimistic about our current situation.

Don't think anyone would pick up Dunn, Sellar or Spencer even if we dropped them.

[Return to Glory 8,448]

Looking at that list I'm very disappointed in Spencer's progress. There was a point where I thought he'd kick on (pardon pun) but he's really struggling.

[Return to Glory 8,448]

And please can I see Taggert against the Saints. How long is it going to take? It seems like Senior selection is based purely on draft order and not on what's being shown at VFL level. Or have I missed something?