This maybe controversial to some, but in my very humble opinion, unless Mark Jamar can begin to move his game with the times, it's time for him to move on at the end of the season.

The old style ruckman who taps to midfield and picks up the odd stat here and there has gone with the introduction of the new bench rules and from what I've seen in the past month especially, he just doesn't help out by dropping into the hole between the opposition full forward & their 50 metre arc and offers nothing as a forward resting.

His disposals in the last month read 6 vs Richmond, 1 vs Fremantle, 4 disposals vs Hawks, 12 disposals vs Pies - not good enough when you play the entire game!

Yes he gets a truckload of hit outs but it's extremely rare that they go to advantage so if you take those hit outs away, what's the point of him?

We need a ruckman in the Ryder, Kruezer, Cox, Nic Nat, McEvoy, Goldstein, Bellchambers, Jacobs, Minson mould (I could go on!)

I would much rather a ruckman who creates a decent contest in the middle and then floats around the ground to offer a decent target.

We have got rid of leaders in the past which has been a huge mistake (Junior stands out) but do we see Russian as a true leader of our club that would be missed in the same way??

So what's the answer you ask?

Well I say we stick with Gawn for starters and give him experience as well as Fitzy. Chopping in and out of the senior/reserves is pointless. We are not making finals and to be honest, we will be probably giving GWS a run for their money for wooden spoon so it's time to blood these players and STICK WITH THEM.

They will take plenty of time so as a solution for next season, why not go for a player like Shaun Hampson, Sam Rowe, Zac Clarke or Daniel Currie??

Yes, they are a risk but they do get around the ground and get disposals as well as offer a threat up forward. They also are number 2 or 3 choices and may even turn out to be a decent pick up in the Josh Jenkins mould.

I'm not sure of their availability but I'm sure many of you will.

Am I the only one thinking along these lines?

Thanks for reading if you got this far!

Yes-Jamar is going backwards and costing Gawn games.

Get him out.

ASAP

Last year even.

Go.

He's typically not a very instinctive player is he, viz:

(a) "WTF, I somehow have the ball

(b) "better get rid of it, er, let me see

© "I know, I'll handball it to someone, maybe a team-mate

(d) (looks left and right for a target)

(e) (his handball targets have all run forward)

(f) (sees his options are but one*)

(g) "FFS, I'll have to kick the bloody thing

(h) ball wobbles forward or he is tackled

*apart from a run and a few bounces

Agree that he's not good enough.

If Gawn is fit enough to ruck for 75%+ of the game, I'd be making the switch, permanently.

Long term, Gawn is our number 1 ruck with Clark providing him with back up (which we can afford given we'll have Hogan and Dawes at FF and CHF).

Remember how we got into this mess - lets get rid of McDonald, Bruce, Green, Miller etc. Jamar should stay.

Jamar is a limited footballer with the ball that's for sure so I don't care how many marks or kicks he gets around the ground.

He certainly needs to win his share of disposals around the contest and also provide a target down the line but disposals I'm not too worried about.

Gawn should come back in for Fitzpatrick this week so we stretch the saints but people are in such a hurry to expose a guy whose had 2 knee reco's and remove a guy who consistently wins the hit out battle and gives our mids a fighting chance. Yes Gawn is the long term future but don't rush him!

We can ship out Spencer, that would be a much better idea.

completely understand your point about getting rid of the older gen but the ones you mentioned were leaders (excluding Miller) so never should have left but Jamar is clearly not a leader but just an experienced player.

Trade him while he has some currency (not much atm) or we'll lose him for nothing as an unristricted free agent when his contract is up!

On Monday I started watching Jamar after the tap to see what he did. While opposition ruckmen move and create an option for the break, we usually see Jamar as a witches hat....

We need our ruck coach to work on a game plan for a midfielders so we actually get a tap to advantage. Jamar does get heaps of taps but they are generally straight down, to Jones, who then has 3 people sitting on top of him and its another ball-up..

Who is our Ruck coach?

Who is our Ruck coach?

It was Cameron Scwhab. He is still yet to be replaced.

It was Cameron Scwhab. He is still yet to be replaced.

Well that explains why Jamar is so bad. Thanks for that.

Trade him while he has some currency (not much atm) or we'll lose him for nothing as an unristricted free agent when his contract is up!

He has no trade value now and when his contract up it will be retirement time, probably is now...

For me it's time to bring Max in to the no.1 position and let him play out the year to see how he goes, we've got nothing to lose.

Gawn has had great development. He's already had two knee reco. So he needs to be built up slowly. No use turning him into another Jack watts.

He is more valuable to us at the club rather than trading him I think.

Sure, he isn't the best ruckman around the ground but he has always been a great tap ruckman. He unfairly cops a lot of blame for the inability of the midfield to get their hands on the ball - we have a [censored] midfield and thanks to Royal or whoever is teaching them, they have no idea how to set up.

Jamar's value off the field, especially to Gawn and Fitz, is underrated massively. I bet he has been doing a lot of work with Gawny and without a mentor figure Gawn might go astray like many a young player at the MFC.

Moreover keeping Jamar will allow us to use another pick in the draft on a midfielder rather than a ruckman. We can address the ruck issues with a pick(s) in the preseason/rookie draft.

I say hold on to him lest we want to cripple our ruck stocks for the short term future.

Give him a real coach and see what happens

Jamar's value off the field, especially to Gawn and Fitz, is underrated massively. I bet he has been doing a lot of work with Gawny and without a mentor figure Gawn might go astray like many a young player at the MFC.

completely understand your point about getting rid of the older gen but the ones you mentioned were leaders (excluding Miller) so never should have left but Jamar is clearly not a leader but just an experienced player.

Sorry Deemolition but I agree with Django here.

I have seen him working one on one with Gawn and Spencil multiple times and when he speaks, they listen. Although yes, around the ground I agree with most in that he does not have the impact he once had but let's not forget his primary role in winning the taps in which he still holds his own.

Until young Maximus has fully developed then Jamar is a must keep. If that takes the three years of his most likely final contract then that is fine.

I have been lucky enough to speak with the Rush before and was hugely impressed. He is a confident and intelligent person who has a great passion for our beloved dees. If you haven't had that priviledge I suggest some people should have a look through some deetv footage and have a listen to him speaking, you won't be unimpressed. He is a leader that has always been a dee which team mates would have in higher regard than some leaders we have brought in.

Why he was removed from the leadership group this year I have absolutely no idea but I would love to know if this has had an effect on his game day mentality as he openly admitted it hurt him.

His All Australian year he was an animal at smashing packs all the time and was great chopping out in front of forwards in that space. I have no idea where that Rush has gone but I would be forever in someones debt if they could bring him back

This is a major point of disagreement between my daughter and I. I think the clock is ticking on Jamar and the time of his demise is nigh, she defends him.

I do not see the point in getting stuck into Jamar when we have so many players under performing. He is one of eighteen on the field, the dees performance or lack thereof is not just his fault. They do need some experienced people out there, I agree, maybe he is not a Darren Jolley etc. but give the guy a chance.

I said this earlier in the year, the best thing to happen to Jamar was Gawn coming into the team.

We need them to be our Cox/Naitanui ruck duo.

To be fair to him, his value has never been around the ground, and I don't like the instructions that are given to him when asked to go behind the ball - he is terrible at that.

He can take a grab and the sub rule means that your ruck has to rest forward. He can do that.

Again, this would be a case of getting rid of a player below market just to release the spot on the list. And while 'spots on the list' are paramount and 'list clogging' is a popular meme, we have to remember what we would be replacing him with.

I maintain that his stoppage and centre square work is something to that a very good team can work with and that unless we get a deal that makes us better, he can remain for 2014 and 2015.

We actually need to draft another project ruckman. Max might be great one day and Fitz might be OK but after that we've got nothing. Jamar is in his twilight and it only takes injury to one of these guys and we're really compromised. Clark can do it but that is a waste of such a great forward. The injury risk would also increase and he is too precious. Project ruckmen take two or three years to develop. It was probably a mistake not to draft Hannath when we had the chance.

I feel sorry for Jamar. Has been consistently over rated for years.

I feel sorry for Jamar. Has been consistently over rated for years.

Yeah, poor guy.

Poor AA selected guy.

Edited June 13, 201312 yr by rpfc

totally agree!

On weekend he had 12 possessions and 6 of them resulted in critical errors, that was the most errors on the field. He is not having an impact up forward. Time to make a statement and let Gawn and Fitz ruck a few games together and challenge Mark to dominate VFL and force his way back in.

Further to that, he has averaged 2 marks per game this year.... not good enough... and had kicked 2 goals from 9 games compared with Gawn who has 6 from 6