AFL 360

[Ted Lasso 16,824]

They tackled & harassed equal to the tigers yesterday yet still didn't have anywhere near there disposal count. Skills & hard running is the reason IMO.

the effort was certainly better, i think an understanding of what the gameplan is might be an issue too, it's alot easier to run hard when you know where you're supposed to be running too, i remember us switching the ball at one point and only dawes was awake to it.

[stuie 7,374]

They tackled & harassed equal to the tigers yesterday yet still didn't have anywhere near there disposal count. Skills & hard running is the reason IMO.

Positioning is the reason. Has been all year. Opposition teams are able to get lots of link up play against us because we are unsure about the zone and have no confidence on knowing when to break away from it. Have you noticed how we're always chasing?

[Bonkers 915]

It does partly, and it also explains why we give up so many uncontested possessions.

We are in the wrong spots, and are unsure when and where to run and if we should break away from the zone.

Playing a zone system requires a high work rate & fitness levels. It's part of why other teams find it easy to transition the ball. So yeh I'll agree the zone is part of the issue in the disposal differential every week.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

That is just not true.

We are ranked 2nd in Team to Opponent rebound 50s per game diff. Clearly we ARE rebounding.

Don't know how many times it needs to be said, IT'S THE MIDFIELD.

I don't understand what you're saying stuie - are you saying the midfield need to drop back more - who will the backs kick it to then?? Have you at all considered the back line contributes to the amount of opposition forward 50 entries. Not sure if you watched the Tigers game but of the 15 ish behinds the Tigers scored I reckon most of them were rebounded straight back in. One point kick in got cleared 3 or 4 times only for the tigers to bomb it straight back in because it went straight to opposition. I'm pretty sure Dunn stickhed up frawely twice

How can you justify pinning it all on the midfield??? Weight of numbers of opposition entries make that stat look relevant - truth is we are very poor at clearing the defensive 50, turnovers all over the ground kill us

How about some stats about how we score - that will tell us how well we counter attack - I bet you the majority of our goals come from stoppages and opposition turnovers

[Bonkers 915]

the effort was certainly better, i think an understanding of what the gameplan is might be an issue too, it's alot easier to run hard when you know where you're supposed to be running too, i remember us switching the ball at one point and only dawes was awake to it.

It's easier to run harder when you know your team mate will honour your hard work & not turn it over. It's a vicious cycle & would be demoralising after a while I think.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

It could also be argued that turnovers are being created because the players aren't running hard enough into space or to make space to create an easy out. I agree we have some poor users of the ball in the backline but I don't think it's our biggest issue.

It's quite obvious all teams are going for this style of football. We shouldn't draft & coach to follow this strategy but draft & coach to beat this style. Counter attacking football is quite similar to soccer but it's very limiting & allows the other team to dictate the game. However It creates easy goal oppurtunities if you can intercept & move quickly. The only way to beat this style is to possess the ball or to leave numbers behind the ball as a safety net. We will probably still need to draft the same type of players anyway but Neeld should be coaching to get ahead of the trend already.

I hear what your saying and i think fitness plays a part but I personally think it's confidence and execution which prevent turnovers

All i can say to the rest is I agree - but i think unfortunately for everyone at the MFC the FD has had to focus on effort and mind set - we're not even close to implementing a game plan - we are playing a style but players are not executing

[stuie 7,374]

Playing a zone system requires a high work rate & fitness levels. It's part of why other teams find it easy to transition the ball. So yeh I'll agree the zone is part of the issue in the disposal differential every week.

I think the players look a bit lost in it too.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

It's easier to run harder when you know your team mate will honour your hard work & not turn it over. It's a vicious cycle & would be demoralising after a while I think.

Yes spot on - and having the trust your team mate will win a 1 v 1 contest

first 8 games i've seen MFC players lose 2 v 1 situations - it's bloody depressing

[stuie 7,374]

I don't understand what you're saying stuie - are you saying the midfield need to drop back more - who will the backs kick it to then?? Have you at all considered the back line contributes to the amount of opposition forward 50 entries. Not sure if you watched the Tigers game but of the 15 ish behinds the Tigers scored I reckon most of them were rebounded straight back in. One point kick in got cleared 3 or 4 times only for the tigers to bomb it straight back in because it went straight to opposition. I'm pretty sure Dunn stickhed up frawely twice

How can you justify pinning it all on the midfield??? Weight of numbers of opposition entries make that stat look relevant - truth is we are very poor at clearing the defensive 50, turnovers all over the ground kill us

How about some stats about how we score - that will tell us how well we counter attack - I bet you the majority of our goals come from stoppages and opposition turnovers

Who do you think is responsible for giving up inside 50s? The players inside defensive 50 or the one's where the ball is coming from?

Seriously mate, if you can't tell our problem is the midfield then stop posting here.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

Y

Who do you think is responsible for giving up inside 50s? The players inside defensive 50 or the one's where the ball is coming from?

Seriously mate, if you can't tell our problem is the midfield then stop posting here.

Not sure if you bother reading anything else but your own posts but I thought I'd highlighted that we don't win the ball pretty early on in this thread

Explain to me how I am talking about first hands on the footy when referring to counter attack or rebound footy?? You need to lose the ball in the first place to counter attack or rebound, don't tell me your that stupid you can't tell the difference???

Also how about highlighting how [censored] poor your defensive rebound stat is by highlighting how we don't score from rebound or counter attack.

Don't reply to my posts muppet - your a waste of time

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

Who do you think is responsible for giving up inside 50s? The players inside defensive 50 or the one's where the ball is coming from?

Seriously mate, if you can't tell our problem is the midfield then stop posting here.

I was commenting on your defensive 50 rebound stat and how we are poor at clearing it when it comes in - not [censored] how it gets in there

FFS you're a waste of time you can't even argue in context

[stuie 7,374]

Y

Not sure if you bother reading anything else but your own posts but I thought I'd highlighted that we don't win the ball pretty early on in this thread

Explain to me how I am talking about first hands on the footy when referring to counter attack or rebound footy?? You need to lose the ball in the first place to counter attack or rebound, don't tell me your that stupid you can't tell the difference???

Also how about highlighting how [censored] poor your defensive rebound stat is by highlighting how we don't score from rebound or counter attack.

Don't reply to my posts muppet - your a waste of time

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

Haha clearly your argument is greater then mine - i concede

Edited May 20, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[Young Dee 1,303]

Cute - but I do wonder how much internet these things take up (especially when there is a whole page of them!)

[stuie 7,374]

Cute - but I do wonder how much internet these things take up (especially when there is a whole page of them!)

They're hotlinked, so they don't use any of Demonland's bandwidth, and they're generally small anyways maybe 30-100kb

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

This is Stuie.

See Stuie gif.

Gif Stuie gif.

Good boy Stuie.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,993]

What's the disposal differential after each game & why are we always behind in uncontested possessions?

The reason we have such a differential in uncontested possessions is simple. We get the ball in the back line and begin what should be a chain of half a dozen possessions, but wind up turning it over after two or three. The opposition then work the ball down with half a dozen or so clean passes, our defence takes it off them, and we begin again trying to move it down and falling apart after a couple of passes. It's our inability to effectively move the ball through the middle of the ground that is killing our possession counts and our scores. Almost every time we try to bring the ball into our HF area we turn it over and the whole cycle begins again.

[bjDee 1,247]

Possibly if it were at the G - but if we played Nan Nar Goon thirds at Docklands we would struggle. It is all in the psyche.

The NNG 3rds statistician is just frantically calculating the percentage boost they will get when this game comes around...

[Mad_Melbourne 872]

I was commenting on your defensive 50 rebound stat and how we are poor at clearing it when it comes in - not [censored] how it gets in there

FFS you're a waste of time you can't even argue in context

i think there is a difference between maintaing possesion and clearing the ball, i think we are generally good at clearing the ball to boundary outside of 50, but we are quite poor around the stoppages and therefore it comes back into our 50. we can normally get it up to about the wing before a midfield turnover, then the process begins

although there is no doubt that our defence would be increased with a better midfield because that is the clear reason why the i50 counts are going crazy, if only we learnt to spread when we were out rather than when we won the hard ball.

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

i think there is a difference between maintaing possesion and clearing the ball, i think we are generally good at clearing the ball to boundary outside of 50, but we are quite poor around the stoppages and therefore it comes back into our 50. we can normally get it up to about the wing before a midfield turnover, then the process begins

although there is no doubt that our defence would be increased with a better midfield because that is the clear reason why the i50 counts are going crazy, if only we learnt to spread when we were out rather than when we won the hard ball.

I strongly agree with what you say Mad Melb - it was the point i was trying to get across before getting sidetracked by stiue..... You\ve summed my argument up nicely

I wil add to it and say I think that Melb do not score from the counterattacks and can not counter attack. The discussion on AFL 360 with Rocket and Eade was that the good temas at the moment counterattack really well - Geelong, Syd, Hawks, Freo

What i've been trying to say is that because of our poor skills and as Bonkers has been touching on fitness - our club has been unable to effictievly counterattack. MN has a lot of work to do

Also before people start taking blind pot shots - Bomber indicated that in the early 00\s (dont' remember which year he took over) his main focus for the Cats when he started was defense... The attacking footy came with development of the list.... something people could take some heart from

Edited May 21, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[Dr. Gonzo 22,487]

Doggies have minimal key position players that look to be any good coming through but have a strong midfield. Dees have lots of Key position but no midfield.

One club we may be able to overtake in the coming years as midfielders are easier to find than key position players, although we have managed to mess this up over previous years.

More development into current mids such as Trengove, Viney, Toumpas, Evans, M. Jones and a couple of good additions say like Prestia and the wheel may turn quicker than we think.

This was the same critique on Essendon a couple of years back, had good KPP prospects but not enough good midfielders. The wheel can turn quickly because good midfielders are easier to find than good KPP and they develop quicker.

[old dee 22,926]

This was the same critique on Essendon a couple of years back, had good KPP prospects but not enough good midfielders. The wheel can turn quickly because good midfielders are easier to find than good KPP and they develop quicker.

We are now six years into the cycle Dr. and we are worse now than six years ago.

I would not call that quick would you?

[titan_uranus 22,454]

Not true. Our rebound 50 stats are actually pretty good. It's actually just the middle of the ground where we are smashed.

I don't often agree with you, but I agree with you here.

The defence shouldn't be slammed. In fact, it should be applauded. GWS and the Dogs (maybe) aside, other clubs' defences don't have to put up with constant inside 50s under no pressure. I don't have the figures but I'm not surprised to see our rebound 50 figures are good.

When we start to learn how to pressure the ball carrier through the middle more (we started doing this against Richmond, forcing them to go backwards and sideways at times where, against other clubs, they've sped through the middle), we'll begin to improve.

[pm24 451]

I think the problem has to lie with the midfield and not the defense. If not for our defense on Sunday we would have lost by 10+ goals. We can say it's the disposal out of defense that is the problem, but I believe the problem is that our midfield and half forward line are not moving into space and/or don't have the awareness to position themselves properly in cases where we do switch the ball. It's the second kick out of the back line, into the middle of he ground where we get caught, and we are often kicking to a contest rather then getting it to guys in space. Thus why I think we turn the ball over so much.

[Longsufferingnomore 1,468]

I think the problem has to lie with the midfield and not the defense. If not for our defense on Sunday we would have lost by 10+ goals. We can say it's the disposal out of defense that is the problem, but I believe the problem is that our midfield and half forward line are not moving into space and/or don't have the awareness to position themselves properly in cases where we do switch the ball. It's the second kick out of the back line, into the middle of he ground where we get caught, and we are often kicking to a contest rather then getting it to guys in space. Thus why I think we turn the ball over so much.

I agree. A number of times the ball was coming out of the backline but the midfield/forwards were slow to react and should have been running back to position but there was no one home. Hello.