some of our errors today were just impossible to forgive, players under no pressure not hitting targets,

is it confidence or not enough focus going on this area? or pressure

Edited May 5, 201312 yr by Demonfan26

Why don't we ever handball the ball away and link up!!!

Our skills and decision making are simply not good enough, do we even have a skills coach?

What annoys me at the moment is that Melbourne players (try to) kick to where the player is, not where he will be. They just it more difficult for themselves trying to thread needles constantly.

The fact that they don't work into space for each other doesn't help either.

I think we have been robbing Peter to pay Paul too much in regards to where our focus should be. I am NOTICING more chase and the players are now running games out. But...

By the time that we can exploit this run, the horse has bolted due to mistakes made earlier in the game. I hope, if he stays on, Neeldy mixes the preseason up. Work on skills and fitness.

What annoys me at the moment is that Melbourne players (try to) kick to where the player is, not where he will be. They just it more difficult for themselves trying to thread needles constantly.

The fact that they don't work into space for each other doesn't help either.

Agree. There was little kicking or handballing to advantage. Getting sick of watching hand balls to flat footed teammates with 2 opponents nearby.

Agree. There was little kicking or handballing to advantage. Getting sick of watching hand balls to flat footed teammates with 2 opponents nearby.

There are two problems here, the player hand balling it to the flat footed team mate, and the team mate standing flatfooted instead of moving off giving him a proper target. I nearly destroyed the TV early on it was so frustrating.

We used to give Cam Bruce a serve for this, but perhaps if the rest of the team gave him a moving target, he would have hit it more often.

One thing I did notice early on in the game, every time we punched the ball out of the pack it fell in to the hands of a Carlton player and every time it was punched out of the pack by a Carlton player it hit a Carlton player; you can say it is just bad luck or you can say it is just better positioning and anticipation by them.

Skills & Decision making. The exact same 2 things that were in my head during the game.

In the first few weeks it was Softness and Lack of effort. We've turned that around somewhat. We were definitely more accountable & 1 on 1 today.

All I can say is that I hope it improves with confidence.... but I have to say this looks the worst skilled/dumbest side I've seen on the park for us in quite some time.

I couldn't get too upset today though, as we did put in.

some of our errors today were just impossible to forgive, players under no pressure not hitting targets,

is it confidence or not enough focus going on this area? or pressure

Its the focus, its not 100% because they are learning & whole new style with all new people & under the pump at the same time. s the focus suffers because its taking so much conscious thought, to think there way around the ground as they go, this distracts the focus as they're already using most of their thought. The focus is more a subconscious tool IMO, but when concentrating so hard consciously, it sort of blocks the subconscious out.

As we grow into the gamestyle, & it starts to become a more automatic response, then the focus will sharpen up... this is why we need to settle the side down quickly, with less selection changes.

Skills & Decision making. The exact same 2 things that were in my head during the game.

In the first few weeks it was Softness and Lack of effort. We've turned that around somewhat. We were definitely more accountable & 1 on 1 today.

All I can say is that I hope it improves with confidence.... but I have to say this looks the worst skilled/dumbest side I've seen on the park for us in quite some time.

I couldn't get too upset today though, as we did put in.

I suspect Buzzy the first couple of weeks only looked like a lack of effort, but was more likely a bewilderment & confusion re the new gamestyle, because we have so many new players, plus first gamers who don't know one anothers ways, under big pressure.

As the side gets more mature players back in & the others are slowly starting to grasp the style, its looking like they are working harder, but to me they are starting to work smarter. But they're obviously not there Yet. But they are getting better each game.

The pressure is showing in our use of the ball early-game going into the half forwardline area, & turning the ball over, time & again. the rebound is hurting us & carlton opened us up this way after the first 5 mins'.

After years of Melbourne sides having virtually no defensive structures, this is something we have to learn to perform.

Edited May 5, 201312 yr by dee-luded

I feel our entire team have to play like midfielders because the ball is constantly turned over. How many times do we concede easy goals when our defenders are caught out of position after an inexplicable turn over. The only thing more demoralising than playing in our backline would be playing in our forward line.

What annoys me at the moment is that Melbourne players (try to) kick to where the player is, not where he will be. They just it more difficult for themselves trying to thread needles constantly.

The fact that they don't work into space for each other doesn't help either.

Spot on. And its not all down to the speed of the spread but the capacity to spread to the right places and for there to be a semblance of a plan.

McDonald either must get his skills right or find another occupation, shocking to watch.

McDonald either must get his skills right or find another occupation, shocking to watch.

You can add 5 or 6 others to the list. Nico and Bail are near the top.

Bail is the worse kick in the team by far. Has a crack but it a complete butcherer of the ball.

This is one of the big issues we have right now. Our skills as a team are abysmal. There are a number of players in our starting line-up who can't be trusted to hit targets under little to no pressure. They also show a regrettable tendency to give a short sharp handball to a player who is surrounded by tacklers rather than running the ball into space. We have a number of players who would be fine if only they could be trusted with the ball. Nicholson, McDonald and McKenzie are the worst of these offenders, but not the only ones. They need to be given specialist help to improve their kicking before it really impacts their careers.

2 really interesting things today that are linked to the post.

Can't remember who had the ball about 55 out from goal I think in the first quarter but Dunn was standing next to him calling for a handball. Now we know Dunn can get the journey but he was not moving and calling for the ball with Carlton players around him. It wasn't given off, one of the better decisions of the day. However surely Lydnen knows he should be moving to take the ball, that's what he did at Casey last week. It's not knocking him, he had a good game today I thought but it's how most of our players are. There is little movement and most handball is a result of pressure, it's why we have so many less disposals than our opponents.

The second thing was again I think in the last in Carlton's attacking 50, Byrnes had the ball and was under pressure, he could have easily given a blind handball or one to a statue but held up and took the tackle. By not releasing the ball he forced a 50/50 ball up rather than a hit and hope handball. This is where his training at Geelong and experience can count, he didn't have a great game but if he can get more of our guys to think and be prepared to take the hit then he will add value.

The turnovers are killing us.

Message to Tommy Mc, find out what Corey Enright did to get his kicking action and ability fixed and do it otherwise you have a very limited to no future in the game. I know you have a few mates but you are the one with the biggest potential upside.

I posted this in another thread but it fits better here:

I thought Carlton really showed up Melbourne's poor performance of some basic skills. Like kicking to a man, (and actually kicking), hitting targets with handball, kicking goals. For a professional footballer, a kick for goal from within 50 metres should be like a PGA golfer putting from 2 metres - they occasionally miss, but you really don't expect it. Perhaps we need to spend less time on game plans and more time on what might be seen as fundamental skills. This isn't meant to be demeaning to the players - to go back to golf, when they aren't playing they're practising.

Does our skills coaching perhaps focus too much on game plans and plays we haven't got the basic skills to execute? Carlton's wide running and kicking to position were polished and professional, and they had very few poor kicks and missed targets.

What annoys me at the moment is that Melbourne players (try to) kick to where the player is, not where he will be. They just it more difficult for themselves trying to thread needles constantly.

The fact that they don't work into space for each other doesn't help either.

I could be (and probably am) wrong, but I swear it's a selfish mentality about how the players lead. Very few do gut run leads where they just run their man around the park and force the issue. It's something I have seen Mitch Clark do, and for me I think it's something Howe and Sylvia should be doing more of. Yes it expels a fair bit of energy but 1) it also make your opponent lose energy and 2) other players see the effort and it builds their desire to do it as well.

The other thing is they don't do proper leads, even leading to create space needs to be done with some kind of urgency or else the opposition won't take the bait. All the players are made to look very lazy with this because they will do a 20m jog to do a "lead" and then pull up very quickly. No one today DEMANDED the ball with their leads. Maybe for a period Max Gawn. This was something Howe needed to do, yes he was playing as deep forward but Reiwoldt, Buddy, Brown and co have all shown that sometimes you have to lead up further to get yourself in the game. I like Howe and he's usually a rare light so I'm willing to cut him a bit of slack but it's something for him to work on if he's in this situation again. I can remember Robbo acting as a medium sized CHF and he did it by running hard into the center point of the ground and using his marking ability.

I posted this in another thread but it fits better here:

I thought Carlton really showed up Melbourne's poor performance of some basic skills. Like kicking to a man, (and actually kicking), hitting targets with handball, kicking goals. For a professional footballer, a kick for goal from within 50 metres should be like a PGA golfer putting from 2 metres - they occasionally miss, but you really don't expect it. Perhaps we need to spend less time on game plans and more time on what might be seen as fundamental skills. This isn't meant to be demeaning to the players - to go back to golf, when they aren't playing they're practising.

Does our skills coaching perhaps focus too much on game plans and plays we haven't got the basic skills to execute? Carlton's wide running and kicking to position were polished and professional, and they had very few poor kicks and missed targets.

When they were kicking from a kick in or had the ball deep in the defensive 50 I actually started counting the kicks and marks. I got to 5 in a row once and that lead to a kick on goal (can't remember who kicked it) but most of the time it was very lucky to get past 2. And as you said these aren't kicks with a high degree of difficulty, it's the sort of stuff you expect TAC players to nail just about every time.

2 really interesting things today that are linked to the post.

Can't remember who had the ball about 55 out from goal I think in the first quarter but Dunn was standing next to him calling for a handball. Now we know Dunn can get the journey but he was not moving and calling for the ball with Carlton players around him. It wasn't given off, one of the better decisions of the day. However surely Lydnen knows he should be moving to take the ball, that's what he did at Casey last week. It's not knocking him, he had a good game today I thought but it's how most of our players are. There is little movement and most handball is a result of pressure, it's why we have so many less disposals than our opponents.

The second thing was again I think in the last in Carlton's attacking 50, Byrnes had the ball and was under pressure, he could have easily given a blind handball or one to a statue but held up and took the tackle. By not releasing the ball he forced a 50/50 ball up rather than a hit and hope handball. This is where his training at Geelong and experience can count, he didn't have a great game but if he can get more of our guys to think and be prepared to take the hit then he will add value.

The turnovers are killing us.

Message to Tommy Mc, find out what Corey Enright did to get his kicking action and ability fixed and do it otherwise you have a very limited to no future in the game. I know you have a few mates but you are the one with the biggest potential upside.

Really good post rjay

Spot on about Byrnes i noticed the same thing....

Another thing that really bugs me is we don't use our link up players and run the ball - we always seem to bomb long and not hold on to the ball, which undoes all the good work of finally winning the ball

Did think the second qtr we started to show some real fight

When they were kicking from a kick in or had the ball deep in the defensive 50 I actually started counting the kicks and marks. I got to 5 in a row once and that lead to a kick on goal (can't remember who kicked it) but most of the time it was very lucky to get past 2. And as you said these aren't kicks with a high degree of difficulty, it's the sort of stuff you expect TAC players to nail just about every time.

I posted this in another thread but it fits better here:

I thought Carlton really showed up Melbourne's poor performance of some basic skills. Like kicking to a man, (and actually kicking), hitting targets with handball, kicking goals. For a professional footballer, a kick for goal from within 50 metres should be like a PGA golfer putting from 2 metres - they occasionally miss, but you really don't expect it. Perhaps we need to spend less time on game plans and more time on what might be seen as fundamental skills. This isn't meant to be demeaning to the players - to go back to golf, when they aren't playing they're practising.

Does our skills coaching perhaps focus too much on game plans and plays we haven't got the basic skills to execute? Carlton's wide running and kicking to position were polished and professional, and they had very few poor kicks and missed targets.

Spot on again lads it really annoys me as well

Not sure who to blame on this one but I really wish they'd stop trying to do difficult things and use first options - especially if they are open or reward hard work

Overall disappointed but I saw some signs of positivitey

Reckon we have away 5-6 goals today from direct turnovers (kick/handball straight to opposition) - got to get our skills right and actively recruit better disposal skills

I don't think the answer is 'let's get skilled players'. That's too much of a cop out and one we have been good at over the last 6 years. Let's get the players we have got to do some actual work on their skills. Neeldy needs to have a good long hard look at himself here too. It's great the boys have got increased fitness but great fitness really only matters at the end of games. It doesn't really matter at all if the horse has bolted by half time due to crappy skills putting you into a losing position!

Reckon we have away 5-6 goals today from direct turnovers (kick/handball straight to opposition) - got to get our skills right and actively recruit better disposal skills

It's a catch 22 though, you choose people with good disposal but most of the time have difficulty getting their own ball and are reliant on it being dished out (Toumpas, Blease, Morton). They are invariably labelled as soft and when we're struggling like this people prefer to see "goers" in there that want the contest but get forgiven for average disposal (Magner, Couch, M Jones, McKenzie, Bail). You rarely get a the full packet, although with the draft pick we've had you'd hope we would've got one by now!

What kills me is that these are AFL footballers here. How is it that they have made to it the top flight without being about to hit a 20m target? And the answer is the haven't. They must have the ability in them, or at the very least an ability to improve. There have been players that have fixed their techniques to kick better, but is there someone at the club that is trying to do this or are they too focused on "the plan". I'll also say that Chip, Grimes, and Trenners all used to have good disposal, I remember both Grimes and Chip being able to nail every one of their kicks in 2010 so that ability must still there.

There were a lot of coach killer moments today.