On 10/04/2013 at 08:06, Rusty Nails said:

It would want to have been VERY damning given that he he was starring for us towards the end of 94 (including solid finals appearances) and went on to be a 4 x premiership player. He was a pretty wild fella in his early days, even according to his own accounts, but it would seem Norf and the Lions had no trouble getting the max out of him afterwards.

Remember only Fitzroy picked Pike after us. And North rid of him for discipline reasons as well.

But he was the type of player we needed as hard as nails.

  On 10/04/2013 at 08:27, Gooner said:

I don't think it'll happen, but I'd love to see Schwarz as President. Whilst it's not essential, high profile Presidents such as notable media personalities and ex-players seem to do quite a good job. It also seems that the role of President is to inspire the supporters and to be the face of the administration side of the club, and that's something that I believe Ox could do quite well.

Ox as President = memberships!

Better check this invite with Sugar. We've gone from Schwab to shite to Schwarz in the blink of an eye.

  On 10/04/2013 at 06:22, dee-luded said:

In actual fact we have sacked the likes of Pike, Farmer, and others who were risk takers.... & our failing has been we're too conservative & go into our shells 2 the drop of a 20 cent piece.

We should forget about the all time favourites who have taken us nowhere, & look to the types we perennially crap on.... can I mention a few names we've rejected... Sheedy, Matthews, Pike, Farmer was frowned on, Schwarta was frowned on, Alan Jakovich was also frowned on but we couldn't do without him,...

We as a club have turned our back on many people who could have supplied the Energies & Spirit we Lack...

IMO its the Conservative set up North-MCG, that kill this club.

Rubbish examples. Pike was dismissed for very good reasons that are probably defamatory should I explain here.

  On 10/04/2013 at 08:33, Dee Dee said:

Ox as President = memberships!

the ox shoots from the hip without thinking sometimes, that we don't need.

  On 10/04/2013 at 07:52, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Sometimes dee-luded, I'm not sure you believe what you are saying.

Martin Pike had to be moved on, no matter how good a player he was. I have heard a pretty damning story about what caused his departure from the club that I will not repeat here but the man himself, an older and wiser version it would seem, said on Open Mike that there were ongoing issues with his time at Melbourne. He didn't pretend he was hardly treated by.

Jeff Farmer left of his own accord because he wanted to go back to Perth.

Ox was frowned upon, and the man himself will admit it, because he was leading some of the younger lads down a dark path. It's awesome to see he has turned his life around now but if we are talking about his time at the club and not now, then there was a good reason why he was frowned upon. I would suggest you look up Daniel Ward to see what I mean (though Ox assisted Wardy after the financial hit was taken).

Jaka could have been anything. If he had the training ethic of others, he would have been an all time club great. However, it wasn't in his nature to harness himself. Proof of that was shown in that he went to the Dogs, remained out of shape, played 9 games and then got delisted.

You can fantasise abbout wht you imagine I do all you like.

Now, did you read what the theme was that I wrote? Martin Pike as far as I know is no longer playing AFL footy @ the top level.

The theme is that other strong clubs have a strength & a maturity that can often overcome & solve the problems of the stallions of this AFL world, & help them become good team players..

it is not to run out & apologise to Pikey, but to challenge ourselves to see our past mistakes/weaknesses, in our culture, that we weren't strong enough to manage these types in the past, without having to sack them.

We are too conservative, and nearly always have been, since I can remember... isn't this why we are so squeaky clean choirboy like??? we choose the morton types, over the Ben Cunnington types nearly every opportunity..

We need to stop this overly conservative approach, recruiting not enough aggressive types 7 our image is 3AW like.. who wants to join a club that has a blazered buglist for the warm up?

get real.

Should never knock back someone who wants to help. Just need him directed to where he can help most

Couldn't be happier about this news.

  On 10/04/2013 at 08:58, dee-luded said:

dee-luded, on 10 Apr 2013 - 18:48, said:

The theme is that other strong clubs have a strength & a maturity that can often overcome & solve the problems of the stallions of this AFL world, & help them become good team players..

it is not to run out & apologise to Pikey, but to challenge ourselves to see our past mistakes/weaknesses, in our culture, that we weren't strong enough to manage these types in the past, without having to sack them.

Only someone who doesn't know what Pike did would say that. In the same way that Nathan Carroll had to be sacked after he snotted Ben Holland and then made a revoltingly racist comment and gesture to a member of staff, Martin Pike also had to be sacked.

  On 10/04/2013 at 08:27, Gooner said:

Gooner, on 10 Apr 2013 - 18:17, said:

I don't think it'll happen, but I'd love to see Schwarz as President. Whilst it's not essential, high profile Presidents such as notable media personalities and ex-players seem to do quite a good job. It also seems that the role of President is to inspire the supporters and to be the face of the administration side of the club, and that's something that I believe Ox could do quite well.

The role of President isn't just a ceremonial figurehead, it's a leadership role in the most important group at the club. This requires both leadership and business knowledge. With all due respect to the Ox - who I love - I can't see him being the captain of a group of the high performance business men and women on the board. It's a fanciful idea that is just a recipe for disaster.

  On 10/04/2013 at 09:13, Nasher said:

The role of President isn't just a ceremonial figurehead, it's a leadership role in the most important group at the club. This requires both leadership and business knowledge. With all due respect to the Ox - who I love - I can't see him being the captain of a group of the high performance business men and women on the board. It's a fanciful idea that is just a recipe for disaster.

Nasher I heard him on SEN today he was not saying he wanted to be President or anything similar.

That is people on Demonland adding 1 +1 and getting11.

Suggest someone put up the pod cast from SEN.

The guy was offering is services " anything that could help"

He was suggesting mentoring roles.

Genuine offer IMO.

  On 10/04/2013 at 08:58, dee-luded said:

You can fantasise abbout wht you imagine I do all you like.

Now, did you read what the theme was that I wrote? Martin Pike as far as I know is no longer playing AFL footy @ the top level.

The theme is that other strong clubs have a strength & a maturity that can often overcome & solve the problems of the stallions of this AFL world, & help them become good team players..

it is not to run out & apologise to Pikey, but to challenge ourselves to see our past mistakes/weaknesses, in our culture, that we weren't strong enough to manage these types in the past, without having to sack them.

We are too conservative, and nearly always have been, since I can remember... isn't this why we are so squeaky clean choirboy like??? we choose the morton types, over the Ben Cunnington types nearly every opportunity..

We need to stop this overly conservative approach, recruiting not enough aggressive types 7 our image is 3AW like.. who wants to join a club that has a blazered buglist for the warm up?

get real.

No fantasies involved. I base my judgement on what you say. If that was your point, it was put across in a bloody muddled way.

Not to continually rag on Pikey, as he seems to be fairly sensible these days, but North couldn't handle him either after he turned up pie eyed at the zoo on their family day. Brisbane kept him on minimum wage for his entire career up there as quite frankly, he didn't have anything to fall back on and it would keep him on edge. One more stuff up would mean oblivion.

I agree with you about the club and it's lily white rep. I have spoken in the past about Brad Miller going from someone who threw his weight around to a regular half forward flanker. We haven't really recruited anyone with a real physical presences who played more than 50 games besides Millsy in his early days, Ox and Todd Viney. Neita had a physical presence but never really had that 'mongrel' attitude.

The examples you bought up weren't valid. As Nasher said, if you knew what Pike did, you wouldn't question the move. As said earlier, we can't say what it is as it verges on defamatory.

I reckon its great the OX wants to help out.

He's probably hurting like any one of us and wants to see the club get out of the its current situation as well as giving something back to the Club. I don't think he's the President type but I reckon he'd love to do whatever is asked of him.

Get him to pull Sylvia aside.

  On 10/04/2013 at 09:22, 45HG said:

Get him to pull Sylvia aside.

I'd rather he did Watts. Col's a lost cause

  On 10/04/2013 at 07:01, Roost It said:

We have Neil Craig

Please stay away Ox

We don't need more of his kind of help however well intentioned

Yeah wouldn't want a passionate past player/star want to help!

So he was a part time coach at Dogs, ok. Sign him up as Pres?! Long bow....

From what I have read the ox wants to help out in any capacity he can. I haven't heard or read he wants the presidency. Let the ox help out. Don't turn away help when we need it the most. At a minimum he can help out hogan and light a fire in the ass of our other players.

Love Ox to help where he can, was just confused by calls from the faithful for him to take over important parts of the club's business side.

  On 10/04/2013 at 09:08, Nasher said:

Only someone who doesn't know what Pike did would say that. In the same way that Nathan Carroll had to be sacked after he snotted Ben Holland and then made a revoltingly racist comment and gesture to a member of staff, Martin Pike also had to be sacked.

Nasher, you still don't get what I'm saying, & I'm using Pikey & a couple of others as ready examples ... Pike was at the club from when he was a youngster, we had a few differences with him...

I'm saying that this is another example of our poor development of our young players. Our club doesn't seem to know how to handle the stallions of the footy world. I'm saying that we should be able to learn how to handle these kids from the start. n9ot let them get out of hand, & then finally sack them.

I'm suggesting that if Brereton or Vanderhaar or these types would either never get recruited by Melbourne, or wouldn't last til they made it.

I'm saying that we have to change.

If we had excepted 'Sheedy' as coach, or Matthews as coach in bygone years, we would be a much stronger Club, but there is an element deeply entrenched somewhere in that mysterious northern Stand, who keep sabotaging this once great club with there incessant conservative, failing footy values.

  On 10/04/2013 at 09:18, Colin B. Flaubert said:

No fantasies involved. I base my judgement on what you say. If that was your point, it was put across in a bloody muddled way.

Not to continually rag on Pikey, as he seems to be fairly sensible these days, but North couldn't handle him either after he turned up pie eyed at the zoo on their family day. Brisbane kept him on minimum wage for his entire career up there as quite frankly, he didn't have anything to fall back on and it would keep him on edge. One more stuff up would mean oblivion.

I agree with you about the club and it's lily white rep. I have spoken in the past about Brad Miller going from someone who threw his weight around to a regular half forward flanker. We haven't really recruited anyone with a real physical presences who played more than 50 games besides Millsy in his early days, Ox and Todd Viney. Neita had a physical presence but never really had that 'mongrel' attitude.

The examples you bought up weren't valid. As Nasher said, if you knew what Pike did, you wouldn't question the move. As said earlier, we can't say what it is as it verges on defamatory.

again you off the plot,,, you just can't get off being literal???

check the bloody theme.

  On 10/04/2013 at 09:18, Colin B. Flaubert said:

No fantasies involved. I base my judgement on what you say. If that was your point, it was put across in a bloody muddled way.

Not to continually rag on Pikey, as he seems to be fairly sensible these days, but North couldn't handle him either after he turned up pie eyed at the zoo on their family day. Brisbane kept him on minimum wage for his entire career up there as quite frankly, he didn't have anything to fall back on and it would keep him on edge. One more stuff up would mean oblivion.

I agree with you about the club and it's lily white rep. I have spoken in the past about Brad Miller going from someone who threw his weight around to a regular half forward flanker. We haven't really recruited anyone with a real physical presences who played more than 50 games besides Millsy in his early days, Ox and Todd Viney. Neita had a physical presence but never really had that 'mongrel' attitude.

The examples you bought up weren't valid. As Nasher said, if you knew what Pike did, you wouldn't question the move. As said earlier, we can't say what it is as it verges on defamatory.

well you do understand, you followed up with that we don't recruit enough players with hard earned thirst for the contest & spilling blood when needed.

but when we do recruit them we send them to finishing school.

they end up turning out like Malcolm Turnbull, or they get sacked first.

  On 10/04/2013 at 10:12, dee-luded said:

Nasher, you still don't get what I'm saying, & I'm using Pikey & a couple of others as ready examples ... Pike was at the club from when he was a youngster, we had a few differences with him...

I'm saying that this is another example of our poor development of our young players. Our club doesn't seem to know how to handle the stallions of the footy world. I'm saying that we should be able to learn how to handle these kids from the start. n9ot let them get out of hand, & then finally sack them.

I'm suggesting that if Brereton or Vanderhaar or these types would either never get recruited by Melbourne, or wouldn't last til they made it.

I'm saying that we have to change.

If we had excepted 'Sheedy' as coach, or Matthews as coach in bygone years, we would be a much stronger Club, but there is an element deeply entrenched somewhere in that mysterious northern Stand, who keep sabotaging this once great club with there incessant conservative, failing footy values.

I agree in one sense that we need to recruit some players who are a risk on the surface but with a good club environment may turn out to very good (hello Jack Darling). At the moment, we don't have that culture. We need to establish more solid values amongst what we have before we go off on vanity projects.

Martin Pike and his time at Melbourne didn't fit your description of a 'stallion who needed to be tamed'. He had plenty of chances and the final indiscretion was unforgivable. Chopper Carroll unforgivable.

It's the Brendon Fevola argument. You can give certain amounts of leeway but after a while, their attitude can infect the whole group. The problem with Fev was that it would have been bad enough if it was just him missing team meetings, getting pizzed and acting like an ass clown. The problem came when other Carlton players expected the same leniency shown towards Fev. They didn't arrest it until Judd came on board and Fev was sent north.

The other thing is you haven't bothered to answer any of the other examples I have raised which by the way refer to actual incidents not just how they were percieved. You have just continued on as a bedroom philosopher who isn't really making a great lot of sense.

You haven't really recognized my point: Say what you like about the club recruiting 'nice guys', the blokes you raised as examples aren't applicable.

May the Schwarz be with you!

  On 10/04/2013 at 09:17, old dee said:

Nasher I heard him on SEN today he was not saying he wanted to be President or anything similar.

That is people on Demonland adding 1 +1 and getting11.

Suggest someone put up the pod cast from SEN.

The guy was offering is services " anything that could help"

He was suggesting mentoring roles.

Genuine offer IMO.

Exactly the Ox has said he is having a meeting with DM to offer his services in what ever way that the club sees fit.

He has not said he wants to go for Pres or have a role in the FD. Lets get it right before making up what he wants to do.