And what what is your definition of legitimate, constructive discussion? Could such discussion include criticism of "the club, the board, the administration, the coaches, fitness people, medical staff, bootstudders etc."?

My definition of legitimate, constructive discussion is the opposite of what I described in the first half of my post. It is topic agnostic.

My definition of legitimate, constructive discussion is the opposite of what I described in the first half of my post. It is topic agnostic.

Why reply to someone thats been banned for a month, sort of defeats the purpose.

Why reply to someone thats been banned for a month, sort of defeats the purpose.

When I opened the thread, it took me to the first new post since I last looked, which was on page three, and wasn't aware at the time that he had been. Even if I'd known I'd have still answered as I thought it was a good question, even if the manner in which he asked it was less a question and more an accusation.

Hazy, do you know Stuie? Very similar laid back demeanour the two of you. You don't take offence and don't seem to hunt down those ho have caused irreparable damage to your sensibilities.

I see what you did there... clever... You're using irony to whinge about a whinger by having a whinge about someone you think is a whinger because they disagree with you...

Edited April 5, 201312 yr by stuie

Ricky bobby playing well is now officially a whinge from me

I know this club deserves a hit from all and sundry BUT its all getting very immature and outright stupid in some quarters of the media. Cheap shots at the MFC has become a national sport, now Fox sports numb nuts are having a crack for letting Petterd go. FFS, his cameos at the MFC hardly warrant retaining him.

Lets see at the end of 2013 how the Petterds, moloneys and Gysberts of this world are travelling....my guess is not bloody much at all.

Perhaps with all the lost data we may have also lost Stuie's multiple examples of irony.

Lost? Are we sure it wasn't a Captain Jack fat finger of censorship?

Lost? Are we sure it wasn't a Captain Jack fat finger of censorship?

Hmmm... my posts getting deleted for being off topic... That would be ironic!

Gysberts - Lack of work ethic and lazy.

Jurrah - Lazy and has his own rules, hates stern authority and won't buy in.

Martin - On figures, was our best ruckman last year, bit of a loss.

Moloney - Bit of loss, but was hurting our disposal into the forward line, just bombs it..

Pettard - Had a punting problem, has talent and needed a change. No loss

I don't think any of those players are a big loss.

Moloney will have a big year at Brisbane, but he is in check up there - because he most likely respects Voss and Brown.

I don't think Brent and Neeld saw eye to eye, Brent probably thought, what have you done and why should I respect you... Maybe fair call.

I think the only real loss we've had in the past few years has been Brock, as he is exactly what we need.

A fit and firing McLean would at least have us having a dip..

70% of threads since day dot could be rolled into this thread, that is some housekeeping...

It has been my opinion for a long time that Neelds brief when hired was to reshape the club to Schwabs vision. Big mistake putting in an inexperienced coach eager to prove himself, He became Schwabs stooge.

Some thoughts.

Neeld wasting no time marginallising the players that were seen as anti Schwab and hastened their removal.

The vengeful leadership changes and then having the gall to say the new leadership was chosen by the player peer group.

The constant hinting of the failings of the previous FD.

The regular flogging of the players on the track having the appearance of punishment.

The players never bought in because Neeld took Schwabs side in the divisions.

Neeld is not his own man.

Edited April 6, 201312 yr by Muvver Jones

It has been my opinion for a long time that Neelds brief when hired was to reshape the club to Schwabs vision. Big mistake putting in an inexperienced coach eager to prove himself, He became Schwabs stooge.

Some thoughts.

Neeld wasting no time marginallising the players that were seen as anti Schwab and hastened their removal.

The vengeful leadership changes and then having the gall to say the new leadership was chosen by the player peer group.

The constant hinting of the failings of the previous FD.

The regular flogging of the players on the track having the appearance of punishment.

The players never bought in because Neeld took Schwabs side in the divisions.

Neeld is not his own man.

Is this a hunch or have you received information to make you come to this conclusion?

This is true. But Neeld has to take ownership of this 'Moneyball' thing. Rodan, Gillies, Sellar, Byrnes, Pedersen, Dawes for pick 20.

And by 'taking ownership' I mean he needs to go.

The other burning question this morning is ... will Watts walk away from the game? Seems like a nice bloke but he sure 'aint no footballer. He's got athletic/sporting talent ... maybe the NBL's his go?

Edited April 6, 201312 yr by Range Rover

It has been my opinion for a long time that Neelds brief when hired was to reshape the club to Schwabs vision. Big mistake putting in an inexperienced coach eager to prove himself, He became Schwabs stooge.

Some thoughts.

Neeld wasting no time marginallising the players that were seen as anti Schwab and hastened their removal.

The vengeful leadership changes and then having the gall to say the new leadership was chosen by the player peer group.

The constant hinting of the failings of the previous FD.

The regular flogging of the players on the track having the appearance of punishment.

The players never bought in because Neeld took Schwabs side in the divisions.

Neeld is not his own man.

From what I can see Gary and Cam convinced the board we needed a harder coach with a defensive mindset, this is why they didn't look at Eade. The thing about 'Rocket' is that he is a very good tactician and has a great understanding of how to get the best from the team he is given and works within that framework

.

Anyway, Neeld said all the right buzz words and Gary and Cam wet themselves in the race to sign him. Like Bailey, I think Neeld feel for the snake oil salesmen and this will bring him down. Talk about Bailey's game plan being out of date, well we have been playing catch up again.

Gary the entertainer has proven again that whilst he could play a bit, he really has no more understanding of the game than any of the other clown princes, Hawkins and Brownless. He should never be taken seriously again.

I can't understand why we didn't get Rocket. He might have said no but I get the feeling that wasn't the case. A lot of what's going on now seems to be consistent with what the OP has stated. It's a bit conspiratorial but it sounds like CS, and he was on the selection committee along with Gaz, engineered this to shore up his own position. It allowed him to clean the leadership group out of his critics and reinforce his agenda that the team was too soft and they needed a hard arse. The constant stream of criticism of the last football department shows the political agendas still at play.

Where to from here? I think it will be in both parties best interests to cut the cord. I would hate to be in Neeldy's position now. No matter how hard he tries, everything he touches turns to cow manure. You can tell from his voice and facial expressions (I know about the nervous twitch from his footy injury) that he is shot. I think the more the players listen to him, the more they are switching off. They need a circuit breaker and I think, though I doubt Neeldy would be up for it, the best option would be for Mark to resign and the club should pay out this year of his contract. As I said before, I doubt he would agree to that but I think that would be the best for all concerned. From that point, they should give Neil Craig the job until the end of the year. If he does a great job, considering the circumstances, then sign him up. Continuity would be a great thing. If he doesn't, then next time around sign an experienced coach.

I know this sounds very pre-determined but the room address last night was the clincher. It was 90 minutes before the bounce. I get that. Just watching it though, you could just tell that he has lost the players and he is beating his head against a brick wall. They resent him and won't perform for him. Time to let this go before real damage (read: club killing damage) gets done.

This is true. But Neeld has to take ownership of this 'Moneyball' thing. Rodan, Gillies, Sellar, Byrnes, Pedersen, Dawes for pick 20.

And by 'taking ownership' I mean he needs to go.

The other burning question this morning is ... will Watts walk away from the game? Seems like a nice bloke but he sure 'aint no footballer. He's got athletic/sporting talent ... maybe the NBL's his go?

Dawes ??? Who's He ??? Is he playing for Melbourne ???

Oohh this is my sort of thread! Like it Muvver, Colin and Rjay!!

Schwab won a civil war battle against the players and Bailey. Bailey vanquished and the leaders have been moved on. Neeld in and our club is decimated. We need a new CEO and coach.

Edited April 7, 201312 yr by Demonstrative

The time is right for a new CEO a proven coach & all seats on the Board to be open.

Orherwise we are finished.

The time is right for a new CEO a proven coach & all seats on the Board to be open.

Orherwise we are finished.

Not yet WYL. It feels like crap but this process, judged on logistics alone, will take 12 months. 3 major upheavals will be the death of the club.

I don't think the people in charge deserve to keep their jobs. For them, it's merely a matter of time.

Here are my observations:

The pre game speech by Mark Neeld was televised live. What disturbed me was that a number of the Melbourne players were not even looking at Mark Neeld. When the speech finished the players left the room in silence to go onto the ground.
That was very, very disturbing. Where was the revving up?

A good coach has a game plan to suit his players. Does Mark Neeld?

To me many of the Demons are not working hard, and want to play contactless football.

Where is the ferocious attack on the ball and the man who has the ball?

Even when GWS were getting smashed last year you could see how the kids were having a red hot go. Not with the Demons.

In a few weeks I expect GWS to embarrass the Demons and comfortably win . .. why GWS were even ahead at Port Adelaide in the first quarter.

It has been my opinion for a long time that Neelds brief when hired was to reshape the club to Schwabs vision. Big mistake putting in an inexperienced coach eager to prove himself, He became Schwabs stooge.

Some thoughts.

Neeld wasting no time marginallising the players that were seen as anti Schwab and hastened their removal.

The vengeful leadership changes and then having the gall to say the new leadership was chosen by the player peer group.

The constant hinting of the failings of the previous FD.

The regular flogging of the players on the track having the appearance of punishment.

The players never bought in because Neeld took Schwabs side in the divisions.

Neeld is not his own man.

Bollocks. No coach would do such a thing for the CEO.

Oohh this is my sort of thread! Like it Muvver, Colin and Rjay!!

Schwab won a civil war battle against the players and Bailey. Bailey vanquished and the leaders have been moved on. Neeld in and our club is decimated. We need a new CEO and coach.

I'm not completely anti Schwab. I will say though that his position was made untenable nearly two years ago, largely through his own doing. If he had focused on what his actual job was from 2009 to 2011, then he would have been able to come out and speak on behalf of the club. Because of his meddling in football affairs, he is a lame duck in these circumstances. From what I can tell, Energy Watch aside, he has kept his nose relatively clean since 186. It's just that his card should have been marked on that dark day.

Here are my observations:

The pre game speech by Mark Neeld was televised live. What disturbed me was that a number of the Melbourne players were not even looking at Mark Neeld. When the speech finished the players left the room in silence to go onto the ground.

That was very, very disturbing. Where was the revving up?

A good coach has a game plan to suit his players. Does Mark Neeld?

To me many of the Demons are not working hard, and want to play contactless football.

Where is the ferocious attack on the ball and the man who has the ball?

Even when GWS were getting smashed last year you could see how the kids were having a red hot go. Not with the Demons.

In a few weeks I expect GWS to embarrass the Demons and comfortably win . .. why GWS were even ahead at Port Adelaide in the first quarter.

That stuff is very Ron Barassi c1981. For a start that team meeting is about 30mins before they hit the ground. Fire and brimstone doesn't work any more. Partic with Gen x, Y or whoever. And it certainly doesn't work 40mins before the first bounce.

But yes it was very uninspiring.

Not yet WYL. It feels like crap but this process, judged on logistics alone, will take 12 months. 3 major upheavals will be the death of the club.

I don't think the people in charge deserve to keep their jobs. For them, it's merely a matter of time.

i don't need to judge anymore Colin. Last night was it.

Our list management since 2007 has been atrocious bar Mitch Clark.

Mark Neeld does not have the experience to deal with THIS club. It's not him. But the club is that bad.

Sheedy should have got the gig in 2007.

I am tired of first time coaches being thrown to the wolves.

Dean & Mark are good people. But Coaching the MFC is for a hardened Bastard now.

From that point, they should give Neil Craig the job until the end of the year. If he does a great job, considering the circumstances, then sign him up.

No no no. Craig to replace Neeld wod be a massive mistake, we need someone to reignite the flame and instill passion in the players not another robot.

My brother and I discussed this at the game last night - it's well and good to sack Neeld but who do you replace him with? I think we need an experienced coach rookie coaches have failed for us again and again. Roos would be ideal but there is no chance in hell that would ever happen. The names I came up with we're Ratten or Eade with Choco Williams an outside chance though not sure if he's still up to it tactically. As an outside the box there's also Sheedy after he's booted from GWS this year but its probably more of a shock value appointment, the game has probably passed him by and he'd probably laugh at us after we turned him down in '07.