Time to go Mark Neeld

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

If the board are happy with Sunday then they should go as well. I can't believe any club ( other than MFC) would be happy with that uncompetitive performance. The only upside was that Carlton did not hit the gas and we would have lost by 100+ points. The palpable relief is the only positive and we continue to deliver football that unbelievably worse than last year and 2011.

I'd be very surprised if anyone inside the club (including the coaches) were 'happy' we got beaten by the Blues. And don't start commenting on the press conference - I believe you have higher intelligence then that Rhino, we all know that is 'fluff; for the media.

It;s their bloody job to feild a competitive team I am sure they are under pressure as well and want to turn this around as bad as we want it to be. This argument should not bet about accepting our mediocrity - This is about what direction the club should take

Neeld & Craig or someone else

Edited May 6, 2013 by Unleash Hell

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I asked a question about the apparent harm caused because posters have continually stated that he must be sacked now to prevent more harm.

You have dodged the question twice in a row now, so one can only assume that you can't answer it. Will someone else help save RobbieF?

I appreciate the fact that you think I speak on behalf of the groupthink posters but I don't, so I can't articulate on their behalf.

Personally I think that the longer we get flogged, and that's what's happening, the more damage the club suffers; if you don't, then you obviously have no clue. If Neeld can't coach, and his records not vey good, he should be removed and replaced with someone that can. This year has been a disaster and I know it's probably news to you but we are currently the laughing stock of the competition.

Now I'll ask you to respond on behalf of the groupthink that believes he stays. Or would you rather leave that to someone that has a clue?

[Hardnut 327]

Agree Robbie but think all of these things can be worked on and will improve with greater exposure at the higher level. Hardnut who I swear is a Cats fan who just comes on here to beat his chest speaks of how great the Cats are along with other deelanders. Well it took a lot of their list to reach 80/100 games before the composure, trust in each other and confidence in their ability saw them become the players and team they are.

As I said before a lot of positives on the weekend (and negatives) but we need to continue with the positives week by week.

I have been a Demon supporter (since early 50s), paid up member for a few decades including Redlegs for some time, contributor to the give Robbie Flower a final campaign, etc etc PSD, but I am not afraid to say I am a Cats fan because they play the way MFC should - and for the record, I think the Cats played nine players with less than 50 games experience last weekend - they know how to bring on young talent, something MFC could learn about!

[Cheap Seats 3,303]

I appreciate the fact that you think I speak on behalf of the groupthink posters but I don't, so I can't articulate on their behalf.

Personally I think that the longer we get flogged, and that's what's happening, the more damage the club suffers; if you don't, then you obviously have no clue. If Neeld can't coach, and his records not vey good, he should be removed and replaced with someone that can. This year has been a disaster and I know it's probably news to you but we are currently the laughing stock of the competition.

Now I'll ask you to respond on behalf of the groupthink that believes he stays. Or would you rather leave that to someone that has a clue?

I'm surprised you think it's only been this year

Don't remember too many good times since 06

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I'm surprised you think it's only been this year

Don't remember too many good times since 06

I was trying to keep it simple for Axis of Bob.

[Hardnut 327]

Yes they did and they did it properly between 1999 and 2001/2. It's just that long ago everyone choses to forget, they changed from the Top down, Club and Footy Dept

Yes, they changed from the top down - why won't MFC do it!

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,257]

I appreciate the fact that you think I speak on behalf of the groupthink posters but I don't, so I can't articulate on their behalf.

Personally I think that the longer we get flogged, and that's what's happening, the more damage the club suffers; if you don't, then you obviously have no clue. If Neeld can't coach, and his records not vey good, he should be removed and replaced with someone that can. This year has been a disaster and I know it's probably news to you but we are currently the laughing stock of the competition.

Now I'll ask you to respond on behalf of the groupthink that believes he stays. Or would you rather leave that to someone that has a clue?

I dont think anyone is happy that we are getting flogged. The question comes down to are we getting flogged because of the coach and will a new coach make a difference. Will a new coach stop us getting flogged short term but not set us up with the best medium to long term opportunity to be a consistent finals performer and have the best shot at a flag.

[Roost It 1,434]

Scoreboard. Scoreboard!

MFC vs CFC

Scores 60 vs 121

Possessions: 270 vs 378 - mainly due to the fact carlton went backwards, sideways and back again as we were finally covering holes up field, but nice try

Tackles 64 vs 79 - hardly damming. Mature bodies stick more tackles. We were applying good pressure to them for the bulk of the match.

Hit outs 30 vs 60 - we lost the clearance count by 2 so this was hardly a problem from the centre. Around the ground I thought Warnock rucked very well against 2 guys with a total game tally of about 10.

We don't get the ball. We don't apply pressure. We don't make tackles.We did apply pressure (particularly well in the second quarter)

Oh for joy for joy! We won the free kicks.

Frees 26 vs 16 Because we were often first to the ball and making good position

Game plan working!

[Hardnut 327]

I appreciate the fact that you think I speak on behalf of the groupthink posters but I don't, so I can't articulate on their behalf.

Personally I think that the longer we get flogged, and that's what's happening, the more damage the club suffers; if you don't, then you obviously have no clue. If Neeld can't coach, and his records not vey good, he should be removed and replaced with someone that can. This year has been a disaster and I know it's probably news to you but we are currently the laughing stock of the competition.

Now I'll ask you to respond on behalf of the groupthink that believes he stays. Or would you rather leave that to someone that has a clue?

Well said RobbieF.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,257]

I have been a Demon supporter (since early 50s), paid up member for a few decades including Redlegs for some time, contributor to the give Robbie Flower a final campaign, etc etc PSD, but I am not afraid to say I am a Cats fan because they play the way MFC should - and for the record, I think the Cats played nine players with less than 50 games experience last weekend - they know how to bring on young talent, something MFC could learn about!

I also admire the Geelong way but do you think the below might have anything to do with their kids development?

Geelong starting 22 players with greater than 100 games: Bartel (200+), Johnson(200+), Enright (200+), Kelly(200+), Selwood, Corey (200+), Mackie, Taylor, Stokes, Chapman (200+),Hawkins

Melbourne starting 22 players with greater than 100 games: Jones, Sylvia, Frawley,Jamar, Dunn (debatable), Byrnes (debatable).

[Axis of Bob 10,266]

I appreciate the fact that you think I speak on behalf of the groupthink posters but I don't, so I can't articulate on their behalf.

Personally I think that the longer we get flogged, and that's what's happening, the more damage the club suffers; if you don't, then you obviously have no clue. If Neeld can't coach, and his records not vey good, he should be removed and replaced with someone that can. This year has been a disaster and I know it's probably news to you but we are currently the laughing stock of the competition.

Now I'll ask you to respond on behalf of the groupthink that believes he stays. Or would you rather leave that to someone that has a clue?

I appreciate that you feel you need to look tough, but you still haven't answered the question. Although there are many others around here that do patronising better than you do. But don't worry, you'll get better with practice.

Your articulated answer to why he is doing more harm is simply "the longer we get flogged .... the more damage the club suffers". Forgive me if I don't take your complex analysis of the situation as seriously as you would like me to, but I actually would like you to detail the specific harm that it's causing. The sort of harm that every week of him being in charge is making 'irreparably worse'.

Secondly, I would like you to quantify how much improvement you expect a new coach to make. What would an interim coach (who is already being employed as an assistant coach at the club) do to improve the team and what level of performance do you think this current MFC assistant coach will achieve that will stop this 'irreparable damage'.

[Hardnut 327]

I also admire the Geelong way but do you think the below might have anything to do with their kids development?

Geelong starting 22 players with greater than 100 games: Bartel (200+), Johnson(200+), Enright (200+), Kelly(200+), Selwood, Corey (200+), Mackie, Taylor, Stokes, Chapman (200+),Hawkins

Melbourne starting 22 players with greater than 100 games: Jones, Sylvia, Frawley,Jamar, Dunn (debatable), Byrnes (debatable).

Of course it does BRFE and that's exactly the point! Geelong several years ago were in the same position as MFC (see a previous post of mine), but they brought in the right CEO and coach (and changed coach when necessary) and kickstarted a dynasty that looks a long way from finishing - a generation maybe if the father/son rule is still in operation!

[Axis of Bob 10,266]

Of course it does BRFE and that's exactly the point! Geelong several years ago were in the same position as MFC (see a previous post of mine), but they brought in the right CEO and coach (and changed coach when necessary) and kickstarted a dynasty that looks a long way from finishing - a generation maybe if the father/son rule is still in operation!

Yes, I would say that having your 2 time premiership coach resigning on you would make a coaching change necessary!!!!

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,257]

Of course it does BRFE and that's exactly the point! Geelong several years ago were in the same position as MFC (see a previous post of mine), but they brought in the right CEO and coach (and changed coach when necessary) and kickstarted a dynasty that looks a long way from finishing - a generation maybe if the father/son rule is still in operation!

But there was also a time when not many thought Thompson could coach, Bartel was a high pick that was too much of a plodder to be any good and Stevie J was an unfulfilled talent who didn't take football seriously enough. Lucky they persisted hey

I get your point success breeds success but we need to breed it in the first place.

[beelzebub 22,244]

Hi. First post. I'm from Geelong and so have followed Neeld's career for a while.

......

Leave him be. Support the club. When the wins come, enjoy them.

Swampy I think Your post is commendable. This is exactly what my inital thinking and understanding was. Its been modified over recent times for one simple notion. You would expect to see a more discernable improvement in all aspects by now. Theres been 2 preseasons. And 30 odd games nab and real and in the main all I see is a chotic rabble with no real sense of purpose. Individual players are trying, some really trying, others are just 'trying" but a plan and rear guard actions are escaping my gaze.

im just terribly worried that as another poster put it hes reached his level.( peter principle ) and what was working prior just isnt meshing at AFL level. Hes been surrounded by a very beefed up FD. Theres not much he could want for. He seems placated by miniscule and debatable improvements. Indeed the board seems totally seduced by the current state.

Its somewhat interesting and timely that we played Carlton this past weekend. Here we have a team ( arguably better skilled and talented ) who have BOUGHT in on their new coachs demands and ways..Theyve done that in a very short period.

Over here at Melbourne I dont see the same comprehension translating into game day. I see rabid confusion and inept decisions. There would appear a gulf of difference in the manifestation of coaches will/direction and team play between Carlton and Melbourne..

The bookies only have us as marginal favourites agains the Suns..wow.

By most arguably relevant benchmarks under Neelds regime we have gone backwards. How in any way is this acceptable.

My view is MN is attempting to get the team to play an unworkable gameplan. By unworkable i mean well and truly beyond the teams ability to grasp and implement.. its a bit like liviing beyond your means, its doomed to failure. You work within your means and expand your abilities thereby expanding the potential of your means..

Neeld hasnt teh cattle to play his game yet he perseveres. This is either arrogance or delusion. Either way it flies in the face of realities.

In simpler terms you walk before you run.... we're just tripping over oursleves.

I could believe in other circumstances Neeld would be off hunting whales in a kalnienk fervour.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I dont think anyone is happy that we are getting flogged. The question comes down to are we getting flogged because of the coach and will a new coach make a difference. Will a new coach stop us getting flogged short term but not set us up with the best medium to long term opportunity to be a consistent finals performer and have the best shot at a flag.

I didn't sugest that anyone is happy we are getting flogged, I certainly don't recall ever saying anything like that.

If you think Neeld is the man for the job and he's setting us up for the future, then you're entitled to that opinion but I disagree with it.

[Pennant St Dee 11,351]

I have been a Demon supporter (since early 50s), paid up member for a few decades including Redlegs for some time, contributor to the give Robbie Flower a final campaign, etc etc PSD, but I am not afraid to say I am a Cats fan because they play the way MFC should - and for the record, I think the Cats played nine players with less than 50 games experience last weekend - they know how to bring on young talent, something MFC could learn about!

My sincere apologies Hardnut in regard to the Cats remark then, the work Brian Cook and Frank Costa put in to change the culture and show faith in Bomber set them on the right track. Comparing their kids to ours is a bit rich, apples and oranges IMO. No kid could get better leadership or advice then playing in the Cats or Hawks sides.

Rioli, Mitchell, Hodge & Guera, 4 players, take them out of the Hawks side and put them into ours, see the massive change, we sort out a lot of problem overnight and see what damage it would do to the Hawks side

From the Cats Mackie, Selwood, Motlop & Kelly again only four players massive change.

I could go through all lists and show you how just a few changes change the make up of a side immensely.

[Hardnut 327]

I appreciate that you feel you need to look tough, but you still haven't answered the question. Although there are many others around here that do patronising better than you do. But don't worry, you'll get better with practice.

Your articulated answer to why he is doing more harm is simply "the longer we get flogged .... the more damage the club suffers". Forgive me if I don't take your complex analysis of the situation as seriously as you would like me to, but I actually would like you to detail the specific harm that it's causing. The sort of harm that every week of him being in charge is making 'irreparably worse'.

Secondly, I would like you to quantify how much improvement you expect a new coach to make. What would an interim coach (who is already being employed as an assistant coach at the club) do to improve the team and what level of performance do you think this current MFC assistant coach will achieve that will stop this 'irreparable damage'.

No point in angry insults Bob - if you can't see the point, and if you haven't read the posts already addressing the issue of continuing damage, then you just don't understand.

As to quantifying any change in something as complex as a football club, try 'quantifying' culture which can't be done - I would expect improving skills, skills, skills and getting wins on the board is the starting point.

[Pennant St Dee 11,351]

Of course it does BRFE and that's exactly the point! Geelong several years ago were in the same position as MFC (see a previous post of mine), but they brought in the right CEO and coach (and changed coach when necessary) and kickstarted a dynasty that looks a long way from finishing - a generation maybe if the father/son rule is still in operation!

Lets not rewrite history or twist the truth, he forced their hand in regard to changing coach "I'm burnt out and need a break" Thompson's words forced the change

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Hi. First post. I'm from Geelong and so have followed Neeld's career for a while. Melbourne supporter for 45 years. There was a moment after the drawn Grand Final when Neeld was the midfield coach (I think) for the Pies. A minute or two after the final siren, the TV coverage was zooming in on players and coaches in shock, trying to deal with the fact that they had another week to go. The camera then panned past Neeld and he already had his midfield group in a huddle and he was busy preparing them for the following week. Meanwhile Buckley, Malthouse et. al. were falling about looking helpless. I said to myself then that Collingwood would win the following week...

If you track his coaching career, he's had nothing but success. 4 consecutive premierships at Ocean Grove. He turned Western Jets from perennial whipping boys (could barely win a game) to finalists in three seasons. In between he was at St. Josephs in the GFL for a year and he completely turned over the list and went with youngsters but then was offered assistant positions at Bulldogs and Collingwood. Wherever he's been he has won friends and made enemies - because he is clear about what is needed for clubs to be successful and he just goes for it. Players liked him at Collingwood.

He identified a soft culture at MFC - a whole host of players who were just happy being AFL players (win, lose or draw. He's given them a chance to show that they want to win and those who haven't shown enough have been shown the door. There'll be more. Not exactly a recipe for making friends. I sense (I don't know) that there are still players who are dark on him for having lost mates from the club. For Neeld, he wouldn't care less. His job is to find a group of players who will work hard together to become successful. That's my take on him.

He's made mistakes but he won't die wondering. Stick with him. Give him his three years. On Sunday I saw a far more competitive effort by a group who were hopelessly outclassed and still low on confidence. We need another go at the draft table for Neeld to assemble the kind of group that he'd be happy with.

Leave him be. Support the club. When the wins come, enjoy them.

[Hardnut 327]

Yes, I would say that having your 2 time premiership coach resigning on you would make a coaching change necessary!!!!

And your point is? Under the circumstances, the change was spectacularly and unexpectedly successful - no-one's denying the previous coach's good work.

[Hardnut 327]

My sincere apologies Hardnut in regard to the Cats remark then, the work Brian Cook and Frank Costa put in to change the culture and show faith in Bomber set them on the right track. Comparing their kids to ours is a bit rich, apples and oranges IMO. No kid could get better leadership or advice then playing in the Cats or Hawks sides.

Rioli, Mitchell, Hodge & Guera, 4 players, take them out of the Hawks side and put them into ours, see the massive change, we sort out a lot of problem overnight and see what damage it would do to the Hawks side

From the Cats Mackie, Selwood, Motlop & Kelly again only four players massive change.

I could go through all lists and show you how just a few changes change the make up of a side immensely.

No sweat PSD, but I wish you hadn't brought the Hawks into the discussion - can't stand them (being polite)!

[Hardnut 327]

But there was also a time when not many thought Thompson could coach, Bartel was a high pick that was too much of a plodder to be any good and Stevie J was an unfulfilled talent who didn't take football seriously enough. Lucky they persisted hey

I get your point success breeds success but we need to breed it in the first place.

Understand what you are saying BRFE, but I don't believe MN has it.

[Axis of Bob 10,266]

No point in angry insults Bob - if you can't see the point, and if you haven't read the posts already addressing the issue of continuing damage, then you just don't understand.

As to quantifying any change in something as complex as a football club, try 'quantifying' culture which can't be done - I would expect improving skills, skills, skills and getting wins on the board is the starting point.

So you can't explain it either?

As for the second point, you would say that letting one of the assistant coaches act as interim coach would provide us with wins and better skills? We'd hit targets because we changed coach, eh? I have some magic beans for you here if you want them - I think you'll find that my price is very reasonable.

[Hardnut 327]

Lets not rewrite history or twist the truth, he forced their hand in regard to changing coach "I'm burnt out and need a break" Thompson's words forced the change

Not attempting to rewrite history PSD - it's no secret T wanted out - all I am saying is that they brought in a damn good replacement when they had to!