I have just read this whole thread and I cannot believe it is the 22nd Feb.....Yes that's right....22nd of FEBRUARY......

Ten posters have gone out the back and shot themselves

Five have cut their wrists

7 have bought sniper rifles to shoot half our side.

and one has such a bout of depression that nothing will save him

All on the back of a 3 way practise hit out in FEBRUARY....

Lets keep it a little bit real folks.....

Real? The reality is that we are still a very poor side, especially in the midfield. The numbers don't lie.

It will take 10-12 games to see this list show some signs of development. That's ok. I am prepared for it.

My biggest worrry was that we still looked very slow in the midfield compared to Richmond, we couldnt keep up with their run and spread.

Im putting this down to Tiges being fresher in the heat,but also no Byrnes,Rodan and Blease,who gave us heaps of run in the first game.

Ive made a team of the best team for round one after what i saw last night.....also assuming Clarke and Trengove will play.

Dunn Frawley Garland

Watts T.McDonald Grimes

Toumpas Jones Blease

Howe Clarke Byrmes

Trengove Dawes Sylvia

Spencer Viney Rodan

Kent, Mckenzie Evans Pederson

Our midfield requires Grimes.

I cannot believe people are just throwing him back after half a season and one NAB game in the guts.

He is our second best midfielder.

Yeah, I would love to have Trengove in there, and Sylvia doing what he should be, and Viney & Toumpas to come on to a massive extent, and whoever else anyone *thinks* should be there.

Grimes stays in the guts.

Ok guys and gals, ive read all the comments and some of you have forgotten that we have been crap for a while.....we are not playing finals this year so get over it. I saw a different demons side especially in the 1st game. North had a good list out there plus they will play finals his year. Richmond gamewe had a lot lesser side than the 1st game. In my honest opinion we needto alll suck it up this year as there will be a few lows and a few highs, we just have to ride the roller coaster that is MFC. Overall we will get there just not 2013 or possibly 2014. I will bet that Neeld will turn over about another 6-7 players this year come end of season. So lets hang in there think long term and try to enjoy the wild ride......giddy up.

Will take more than 12 months for 14 new players to gel...

Class teams have a plan and deliver the ball to advantage, we have a long way to go to get there.

Bombing to the goal square worked for Brisbane but they had Lynch and Brown and a host of talented forwards to mop up the crumbs just as Geelong now have Hawkins & Pods with some fairly talented support staff...we don't. Hogan is only 17 but the type you build a team around but that is 4 years away.

I know it is February but we are talking about the same ball butchers as last year so I don't expect they will ever improve (sorry Geordie u are killing us). My son is a kangas supporter and he was rapt with Gysberts game and laughed that we traded him for Pederson I know who will benefit from that deal.

If you watched the Nth vs Rich game you would have seen a lot of turnovers as well.....As for our low possession rate,.I think you will find that Nth chip chip chip which makes their possession rate a lot higher......I think we had about the same inside 50's....Stand to be corrected on that

Against Rich....I thought that they were fresh and keen and used the ball a lot better than us......

I liked that we came back against Nth and held Rich goaless in the last half

We will be a lot better with a settled side after they play together for a while....

...also assuming Clarke and Trengove will play.

When I heard Jade Rawlings say that the club is treating Mitch's foot like a complete reconstruction, like an ACL, I took that to mean they will be very cautious with him. I'd be pleasantly surprised if he played in the first month of the regular season.

Ill add my two Bobs worth !

The way I sum up last night after watching both games and noting the number of players that changed in both matches and who was in and who was out and who played both and who didnt

I believe when we get Trengrove Back and Mitch back, Viney will only get better and Toumpas has a touch of class about him which Im sure he will develop as he progresses.

Hogan gives real hope for the future, (Not fair he cant play this year, #*#*!

I reckon this year we will be half a chance in any game we play in once the boys get a few more games under their belt together .

So at this stage Id say we are a long way from where we where this time last year which was basically little chance in any game we played in!

Of course Im upset about Melbourne losing last night. I dont care if its Nab cup a practice game or anything else .
Im a Melbourne supporter and I hate seeing the demons lose any game!

But I believe I can see some light and I hope that light will only begin to glow brighter as this season progresses

Neeld will certainly work on it ( He doesnt like failure ) and my prediction for the first four games is First round Melb/Port a contest could go either way . Second round Melb/Essendon Id pick a loss. Third round at this stage Melb/WC Loss Fourth round Melb/GWS Win

After the end of these four weeks our players should be starting to work together better as a team if we can come out with a minimum of 2/2 in our first four games Ill be happy .

After that its anyones Guess?

The Richmond game was s/house, but they looked pretty good against a strong North outfit. The midfield is obviously our weakness and a gun off half-back to compliment Watts is desperately needed. I take a fair bit from the North game. As others have mentioned, it was a win under normal rules.

Dawes will struggle as the main man. He'll be better with Clark back. This team is crying out for Jack Trengove to be the player we hoped. As a midfielder Grimes makes a great backman. Jordie McKenzie will do my head in this year. I don't think he's good enough, but I know he'll play every game and finish top 5 in the B&F. Joel MacDonald simply isn't up to it. I'm not a Dan Nicholson fan. I get very nervous when he gets near it. But there are also plenty of positives. Most importantly the coaches now get to work on the areas that weren't up to scratch. That's what these games are all about.

Not often I agree with your every point mate, but I do here.

Except maybe Grimes, upon whom I am 50/50 as to him reaching the level we require as a midfielder. Still only 23 so has some improvement still to come, but his decisions under pressure can be a worry. At this stage he looks a lot more at ease off HB but I see enough in him to think he can form part of an A grade midfield. Jones, Viney, Toumpas, Grimes, Trengove and Blease just has a nice ring to it.

Our defence seemed much better structurally around the ground than it did for much of last year.

We defended the opposition's second kick out of defence very well for the most.

Jesse Hogan will be a star.

Dawes will be very handy when Clark comes back. Breaks packs and presents well.

I love Jordie Mckenzie but it's very difficult to carry a player who simply cannot kick.

Jack Watts' use of the footy is fantastic. If he can develop a real appetite for the contest he'll be a very, very damaging player IMO. Just saw the replay and noticed that after the game he went to Kent with a bit of a shake of the head. Depending which side of the coin you're on you either say he wasn't being a good leader and should've looked after the kid - but in my view it was good to see him get a bit of mongrel, wanting the win.

Still don't know why Howe wouldn't have a ping. On the downside, it would've been fun to watch. On the upside, it's good to see players stick to structures and (probably) coach's orders (uh oh!).

I have just read this whole thread and I cannot believe it is the 22nd Feb.....Yes that's right....22nd of FEBRUARY......

Ten posters have gone out the back and shot themselves

Five have cut their wrists

7 have bought sniper rifles to shoot half our side.

and one has such a bout of depression that nothing will save him

All on the back of a 3 way practise hit out in FEBRUARY....

Lets keep it a little bit real folks.....

With all respect, your summation is somewhat simplistic of where a good side needs to be at at their first hit out.

Good teams, consistently good teams, always use the NAB Cup as a launching pad to hit the ground running in Round 1.

Posters here love their team and need success....no more BS, no more passengers....time for the MFC to stand up.

I don't care if it's Feb the 22nd or Ground Hog Day.

My biggest worrry was that we still looked very slow in the midfield compared to Richmond, we couldnt keep up with their run and spread.

Im putting this down to Tiges being fresher in the heat,but also no Byrnes,Rodan and Blease,who gave us heaps of run in the first game.

Ive made a team of the best team for round one after what i saw last night.....also assuming Clarke and Trengove will play.

Dunn Frawley Garland

Watts T.McDonald Grimes

Toumpas Jones Blease

Howe Clarke Byrmes

Trengove Dawes Sylvia

Spencer Viney Rodan

Kent, Mckenzie Evans Pederson

Don't mind your team but I think that Pencil in lieu of Jamar is a big call. I hope that you are on the money and also that your 22 keep fit and injury-free.. Be great to see Mitch back!

With all respect, your summation is somewhat simplistic of where a good side needs to be at at their first hit out.

Good teams, consistently good teams, always use the NAB Cup as a launching pad to hit the ground running in Round 1.

Posters here love their team and need success....no more BS, no more passengers....time for the MFC to stand up.

I don't care if it's Feb the 22nd or Ground Hog Day.

Well if you can't see some improvement in last nights games to where we were last year....I can't help you...

How many pre-season games have the Swans won in the past 10 years, but they seem to go all right in the season proper

I love my team as well.....It does not mean that I knock my players or decide the players futures on a three side practice match in Feb.....

See me in Aug.......We both might have different opinions then.......

Spencer was soundly beaten before off injured. Jamar at least broke even in game 1. No threat to his position unless Gawn suprises.

The following was posted by a Richmond supporter elsewhere. It actually puts things into a better perspective. We played an inferior team against Richmond and we were also fatigued, while they were fresh with close to their best line-up.

Some game time percentages for Richmond from the two games tonight:

vs Dees

Rance - 100

Nahas - 94

Astbury - 93

Houli - 90

Vickery - 88

Batchelor - 87

Maric - 85

Riewoldt - 84

Cotchin - 84

Tuck - 82

Ellis - 81

Grigg - 80

Pettard - 80

Deledio - 77

Newman - 75

S.Edwards - 76

Morris - 75

Martin - 72

Conca - 72

A.Edwards - 70

Vlastuin - 67

Jackson - 61

McDonough - 13

Arnott - 13

So pretty close to best 22 playing most of the game. Given the Dees were tired and Richmond fielded a pretty strong team the result of that game is not surprising.

vs North

Riewoldt -100

S.Edwards - 94

Ellis - 93

Rance - 90

Dea - 89

Griffiths - 88

Batchelor - 86

Derickx - 84

McGuane - 84

White - 82

Morris - 81

Martin - 79

Jackson - 79

Newman - 77

Vickery - 74

O'Hanlon - 72

Vlastuin - 72

Knights - 64

Conca - 64

Arnott - 60

Tuck - 55

McDonough - 51

Cotchin - 42

Deledio - 38

So the stars sat it out more and fringe players got a lot more game time. The only team that should be suggesting Richmond "played like it was round 1" is Melbourne.

Well if you can't see some improvement in last nights games to where we were last year....I can't help you...

How many pre-season games have the Swans won in the past 10 years, but they seem to go all right in the season proper

I love my team as well.....It does not mean that I knock my players or decide the players futures on a three side practice match in Feb.....

See me in Aug.......We both might have different opinions then.......

I know you were down playing the loss with a bit a humour...I didn't mean my post to detract from that, even if I sounded a bit harsh.

I'm just sick of players who are 'not ready' or look 'disinterested' or brushing out 'cobwebs'. They should be skilled up, ready to be crunched and give as much as they take.

You cited the Swans as your only example and that's fine....but, having said that, barring Carlton, teams that use the NAB Cup as a springboard go on to have pretty good years. Look at the Crows last year who surprised all - from memory, they were a kick away from a granny.

Neeld has started the rebirth, now he needs to keep going. Davey, Sylvia, McDonald, Magner and a few others are all skating on thin ice.

I'll have a crack at it and will leave Trengove and Clark out of it because they are unlikely to play round 1. This is purely on last night's showing.

B Nicholson Frawley McDonald

HB Watts Garland Dunn

C Toumpas Grimes Rodan

HF Kent Howe Blease

F Byrnes Dawes Davey

Foll Jamar Jones Viney

Int McKenzie Pederson Evans Sellar

I know you were down playing the loss with a bit a humour...I didn't mean my post to detract from that, even if I sounded a bit harsh.

I'm just sick of players who are 'not ready' or look 'disinterested' or brushing out 'cobwebs'. They should be skilled up, ready to be crunched and give as much as they take.

You cited the Swans as your only example and that's fine....but, having said that, barring Carlton, teams that use the NAB Cup as a springboard go on to have pretty good years. Look at the Crows last year who surprised all - from memory, they were a kick away from a granny.

Neeld has started the rebirth, now he needs to keep going. Davey, Sylvia, McDonald, Magner and a few others are all skating on thin ice.

There will be another 7-8 player changes at the end of 2013 jr as there needs to be.

The list is still a way off a list that will play finals football.

I would say our best 22 is probably a fair bit better than last year.

But once past the best 22 it still drops off rapidly.

Like all teams we will have injuries and our ability to cover those will still be our Achilles heal.

I know you were down playing the loss with a bit a humour...I didn't mean my post to detract from that, even if I sounded a bit harsh.

I'm just sick of players who are 'not ready' or look 'disinterested' or brushing out 'cobwebs'. They should be skilled up, ready to be crunched and give as much as they take.

You cited the Swans as your only example and that's fine....but, having said that, barring Carlton, teams that use the NAB Cup as a springboard go on to have pretty good years. Look at the Crows last year who surprised all - from memory, they were a kick away from a granny.

Neeld has started the rebirth, now he needs to keep going. Davey, Sylvia, McDonald, Magner and a few others are all skating on thin ice.

I hear what your saying but to judge any of the players you mentioned above will take more than half a practice match.

Considering that half the side has not played together against an opposition side,I thought our defensive structures (I hate that word) were all right......Last year we would have capitulated in both last halves and you would be looking at 5-8 goal defeats....

I'll have a crack at it and will leave Trengove and Clark out of it because they are unlikely to play round 1. This is purely on last night's showing.

B Nicholson Frawley McDonald

HB Watts Garland Dunn

C Toumpas Grimes Rodan

HF Kent Howe Blease

F Byrnes Dawes Davey

Foll Jamar Jones Viney

Int McKenzie Pederson Evans Sellar

I think Nicholson will play, but I'd prefer one of Jetta, or Strauss. I just don't reckon Nicholson is quite up to it.

Davey has done nothing and I mean nothing to suggest he warrants a spot in the team.

The team looks too top heavy with Sellar and Pedersen.

I like Kent in the team and I'm hoping that Matt Jones can force his way in. He's presently behind the tempo, but I'll back him to pick it up. When he does he'll make an impact.

There will be another 7-8 player changes at the end of 2013 jr as there needs to be.

The list is still a way off a list that will play finals football.

I would say our best 22 is probably a fair bit better than last year.

But once past the best 22 it still drops off rapidly.

Like all teams we will have injuries and our ability to cover those will still be our Achilles heal.

Old Dee....I am starting to get worried about you......It's only the first NAB cup game in this ridicules 3 way/2 halves mickey mouse first round.....All the new blokes will take a little time to get used to playing together....We played 35 players to give most a run....If it was 2009,all sides would be charged with Tanking.....

It will be OK....I promise.....

What did people make of Sellar? The times he got his hands on it I thought he looked better than last year.

Haven't read through the thread fully, but if super goals didn't count (real season) we would of beaten nth last night right? A team most put in there top 8... Go easy on the negativity

Some can think rationally ALL of the time.

Touche.

I think Nicholson will play, but I'd prefer one of Jetta, or Strauss. I just don't reckon Nicholson is quite up to it.

Davey has done nothing and I mean nothing to suggest he warrants a spot in the team.

The team looks too top heavy with Sellar and Pedersen.

I like Kent in the team and I'm hoping that Matt Jones can force his way in. He's presently behind the tempo, but I'll back him to pick it up. When he does he'll make an impact.

Solely on yesterday, you would have Sellar before Pederson.