Happy to say that the general consensus is that we got screwed and the AFL has been under some really ordinary leadership.

Happy to hear.

On the other hand, I'm not so sure about the "ordinary leadership" re the AFL. They've been smart. They've done just enough to give everyone a scare, without doing so much that a) we get really shafted and b) they paint themselves into a corner where they have to go opening enquiries every time someone's bench rotations are down.

Happy to hear.

On the other hand, I'm not so sure about the "ordinary leadership" re the AFL. They've been smart. They've done just enough to give everyone a scare, without doing so much that a) we get really shafted and b) they paint themselves into a corner where they have to go opening enquiries every time someone's bench rotations are down.

I'm thinking from a proactive perspective whereas yours is more reactive.

We should never have got to this stage.

Happy to hear.

On the other hand, I'm not so sure about the "ordinary leadership" re the AFL. They've been smart. They've done just enough to give everyone a scare, without doing so much that a) we get really shafted and B) they paint themselves into a corner where they have to go opening enquiries every time someone's bench rotations are down.

Get some pride.

They screwed us.

7 month investigation only to find no tanking, use laughable reasoning to save face and slap us with a 500k fine and derail the careers of two people. They should be ashamed! But hey if you think they've been smart I envy you. My hatred towards the AFL is taking the glitter off this game I love. I'm feeling nothing for it right now. Couldn't even give a [censored] about the game on Friday. I'm so emotionally drained.

Get some pride.

They screwed us.

7 month investigation only to find no tanking, use laughable reasoning to save face and slap us with a 500k fine and derail the careers of two people. They should be ashamed! But hey if you think they've been smart I envy you. My hatred towards the AFL is taking the glitter off this game I love. I'm feeling nothing for it right now. Couldn't even give a [censored] about the game on Friday. I'm so emotionally drained.

We've definitely been the sacrifical lamb to ensure the AFL never have to admit tanking existed. A non-guilty verdict, but a hefty fine attached to being guilty of a conversation and a coach "feeling pressured", just to warn the other clubs that "tanking doesn't pay...if you tank, which we know you don't cause it doesn't exist.."

One good thing to come out of it is the AFL emerging as the greater villain in the eyes of the footy public. Their farcical mishandling of it has all but overshadowed the actual events of 2009.

Fear not Sloonie, everything will wash away the moment Hulk takes his first big grab this Friday.

can anybody find a safe seat to offer Demetriou?

Roos is right - Roos advocates draft overhaul but he will forever remain in my eyes as the symbol of AFL hypocrisy over tanking.

Roos claimed in 2008 that his instruction to a player not to kick a goal to win a NAB Cup game was a joke, the AFL investigators believed him and he was exonerated. Unlike Chris Connolly who was also joking when he made remarks attributed to him at the infamous vault meeting but copped a 12 month suspension because he supposedly put pressure on Dean Bailey to try to lose games.

Roos asked the loaded question of Brock McLean.

Hypocrisy on hypocrisy.

If there was any pressure, it was on the Swans player not to kick the goal.

The joke will always be on the AFL.

Roos is right - Roos advocates draft overhaul but he will forever remain in my eyes as the symbol of AFL hypocrisy over tanking.

Roos claimed in 2008 that his instruction to a player not to kick a goal to win a NAB Cup game was a joke, the AFL investigators believed him and he was exonerated. Unlike Chris Connolly who was also joking when he made remarks attributed to him at the infamous vault meeting but copped a 12 month suspension because he supposedly put pressure on Dean Bailey to try to lose games.

Roos asked the loaded question of Brock McLean.

Hypocrisy on hypocrisy.

If there was any pressure, it was on the Swans player not to kick the goal.

The joke will always be on the AFL.

I have no doubt Roos is still bitter that his team were flogged by 12 goals against a team who "tanked" the year before.

7 month investigation only to find no tanking ...

.... when the tanking was obvious to all and sundry.

The penalties? Bailey's gone, nothing to do with us, but he's fine. CC will be having an all expenses paid holiday for a year, will be receiving Christmas Hampers from most of the board for the rest of his life, and is currently wondering what to do with the increased salary he'll receive when he returns. And the $500K? Carlton are still paying off theirs. Very, very slowly. (and at a very low interest ….)

We keep our future draft picks. We keep all our (key) staff, our CEO, and our Board. We're not guilty of anything, legally speaking (cough cough). We (will) keep our gaming licenses. We'll keep our sponsors, we can tell everyone we didn't tank, and we didn't lose any premiership points. In a week this will all be over, as opposed to it dragging through the courts for a year or two, or rearing its ugly head every year when draft time comes round and we don't get a pick until the third round. We didn't land the AFL in the sh*t, and as a result we won't be playing 5 games a year as the new expansion team in Port Morseby. And finally, we didn't lose Hogan, Dawes and Barry, who we got for less than what we pay Aaron Davey each year.

Did I miss anything in what could have, and probably should have, happened?

We Won.

Can I just get in early here - the NBA still has tanking...

SHOCK! HORROR!

The Golden State Warriors* managed to 'bottom out' by doing the same things we do and it is even more obvious to all those around, including the players.

They did it to give itself the best chance of getting a top 7 pick through the lottery. They got the pick. Tanking worked.

Teams still tank to give themselves the best chance of the better pick.

The lottery will not stop tanking.

*The Warriors traded a 'protected' pick which means that for a couple of years you can stipulate 'we give you a 1st round pick, but if it is in the top 7 in 2013 and 2014 we keep it and defer the trade.'

I know, it's a little odd.

I reckon the AFL got this just about right - perhaps they were a bit soft on us.

Bailey and Connolly were behind the scenes making dodgy decisions leading to deliberate short term losses for expected long term gains that never came. And Jimmy - God bless him - was probably implicit also. We are very lucky not to have draft picks taken away.

We did everything else BUT tell our players to lose. I can't tell you how angry I am that officials of the MFC - the founding club and best club in the world - decided that a culture of losing would have long term gains. I have been a great fan of Connolly and thought Bailey had some things right, but I do not want to see Connolly back our great club. Think how Barassi, Flower, Viney, Lyon would respond if the club was doing everything to lose while the players were busting heads, guts, legs and all they had to try and win a flag???

We lost Brock McLean and Scully because of this, and probably others. Regardless of how we now feel about them they were good players who smelled a rat.

Never, NEVER again!!!

Melb never lost Brock because of any tanking. Thats Brocks excuse for leaving for more money. Melb had already agreed to trade him to Carlton before he even asked to go there.

What still does not sit well with me is that lies have been told...Yes i know that we did not "lose" as much as we could have BUT

When Jim Stynes took over as Prez his mantra was to bring the club together...Well i don't see too much of that now, as a member we all should be told more.

I do not believe for one moment that the CEO & the Board did not have full knowledge of what CC & DB were doing...They knew.

So when do i start believing what i am told?...

It is becoming expensive to go to the Footy now, on every level & i think we Demons have put up with more than any other side.

I still want some serious answers...because that letter that was sent out on Tuesday by DM was in know way reflected in what was proposed 2 weeks earlier when he replied to Wilson's bile...

I do not want to start a big sh!t fight in here, but i haven't felt good about this whole thing since tuesday,whilst others in here think it's fantastic..

We still do not have a definition of what we did but we rolled over...

N.H.J. (Not Happy Jan)

What still does not sit well with me is that lies have been told...Yes i know that we did not "lose" as much as we could have BUT

When Jim Stynes took over as Prez his mantra was to bring the club together...Well i don't see too much of that now, as a member we all should be told more.

I do not believe for one moment that the CEO & the Board did not have full knowledge of what CC & DB were doing...They knew.

So when do i start believing what i am told?...

It is becoming expensive to go to the Footy now, on every level & i think we Demons have put up with more than any other side.

I still want some serious answers...because that letter that was sent out on Tuesday by DM was in know way reflected in what was proposed 2 weeks earlier when he replied to Wilson's bile...

I do not want to start a big sh!t fight in here, but i haven't felt good about this whole thing since tuesday,whilst others in here think it's fantastic..

We still do not have a definition of what we did but we rolled over...

N.H.J. (Not Happy Jan)

I'm just tired of all this, it's taken a huge toll on all those that really care for the club and I personally just want it to go away. I follow the club for it's football and not for the Politics or any off field dramas and I don't think I can continue if it's just going to be one [censored] fight after another.

If any other supporter wants to stick it up us for this then who cares they would find something else if this wasn't around (snow, tartan rugs, go number 7 etc.etc.) so what the hell. If we start to win games then they can say what they like, does anyone on here really believe that Collingwood and Carlton care what other supporters think?

Several years ago I was talking to a Solicitor friend of mine with the view to issuing against someone over a matter of principle and he said; just remember principle costs money, so even if you win, you will probably lose. He convinced me to forget it.

Do we really want anymore dirty laundry dragged out for all to see?

Roos is right - Roos advocates draft overhaul but he will forever remain in my eyes as the symbol of AFL hypocrisy over tanking.

Roos claimed in 2008 that his instruction to a player not to kick a goal to win a NAB Cup game was a joke, the AFL investigators believed him and he was exonerated. Unlike Chris Connolly who was also joking when he made remarks attributed to him at the infamous vault meeting but copped a 12 month suspension because he supposedly put pressure on Dean Bailey to try to lose games.

Roos asked the loaded question of Brock McLean.

Hypocrisy on hypocrisy.

If there was any pressure, it was on the Swans player not to kick the goal.

The joke will always be on the AFL.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRNTQvXSsfA

.... when the tanking was obvious to all and sundry.

The penalties? Bailey's gone, nothing to do with us, but he's fine. CC will be having an all expenses paid holiday for a year, will be receiving Christmas Hampers from most of the board for the rest of his life, and is currently wondering what to do with the increased salary he'll receive when he returns. And the $500K? Carlton are still paying off theirs. Very, very slowly. (and at a very low interest ….)

We keep our future draft picks. We keep all our (key) staff, our CEO, and our Board. We're not guilty of anything, legally speaking (cough cough). We (will) keep our gaming licenses. We'll keep our sponsors, we can tell everyone we didn't tank, and we didn't lose any premiership points. In a week this will all be over, as opposed to it dragging through the courts for a year or two, or rearing its ugly head every year when draft time comes round and we don't get a pick until the third round. We didn't land the AFL in the sh*t, and as a result we won't be playing 5 games a year as the new expansion team in Port Morseby. And finally, we didn't lose Hogan, Dawes and Barry, who we got for less than what we pay Aaron Davey each year.

Did I miss anything in what could have, and probably should have, happened?

We Won.

Agree

Through the whole process the clubs stance was to protect the integrity of the footy club and defend all employees where they could.

Up until 5 minutes before the press conference it was widely reported that the club would be found guilty, imagine the penalties then.

The footy club clearly fought this hard and won which was clearly a good result.

The evidence put forward by the AFL clearly showed wrongdoings by CC + DB. Their penalties are harsh but considering Demetriou's comments earlier in the year they could have been harsher. CC has accepted he made a stupid comment about losing and DB admitted to coaching differently because of this, whether this was all that occurred or not doesn't matter, this was the evidence. The club doesn't exactly have a strong case defending them, clearly an agreement was made that wouldn't cripple the club.

Saying that, the fine was clearly too big and there is no doubt the club would be fuming. A figure of 50-100K would have cleared a lot of confusion up about the whole thing. But it is not worth fighting a costly legal battle throughout the whole season, to maybe get the fine reduced a few 100K. During which time we would battle to sign/resign sponsors. The sooner we can play footy without having the whole thing over our head the better. Bring on Friday

I'm just tired of all this, it's taken a huge toll on all those that really care for the club and I personally just want it to go away. I follow the club for it's football and not for the Politics or any off field dramas and I don't think I can continue if it's just going to be one [censored] fight after another.

If any other supporter wants to stick it up us for this then who cares they would find something else if this wasn't around (snow, tartan rugs, go number 7 etc.etc.) so what the hell. If we start to win games then they can say what they like, does anyone on here really believe that Collingwood and Carlton care what other supporters think?

Several years ago I was talking to a Solicitor friend of mine with the view to issuing against someone over a matter of principle and he said; just remember principle costs money, so even if you win, you will probably lose. He convinced me to forget it.

Do we really want anymore dirty laundry dragged out for all to see?

No we do not....it has been on show since 1965, & have we actually got rid of it...That is exactly why i posted.

I can't wait for every commentator and journalist to make a passing mention of all this in connection with us for many years to come. If the day ever comes when we actually play some good footy and are maybe up near the top of the ladder (yeah, right) just wait for the accusations of undeserved success. We have certainly been shafted in the sense that this entire fiasco should not have even happened. Brock McLean FFS.

And let's not forget the fact that we got our name cleared of tanking with the AFL's approval.

Putting aside all of my desire to get out of this squeaky clean - we never were.

All players needed to give something for this to go away and they all have.

The AFL looks ridiculous, we have been massively fines, Bailey has been humiliated and suspended and CC has been made to look like Richard Nixon.

This was always going to look messy as soon as our disgruntled former Demons became involved in this investigation started by bad luck and an idiot.

I am happy to swallow some pride and take a less than perfect ruling for being cleared of something that I said we didn't do.

We didn't tank and the AFL agrees - because you can't prove motive when it comes to actions and experimentation isn't tanking.

And let's not forget the fact that we got our name cleared of tanking with the AFL's approval.

Putting aside all of my desire to get out of this squeaky clean - we never were.

All players needed to give something for this to go away and they all have.

The AFL looks ridiculous, we have been massively fines, Bailey has been humiliated and suspended and CC has been made to look like Richard Nixon.

This was always going to look messy as soon as our disgruntled former Demons became involved in this investigation started by bad luck and an idiot.

I am happy to swallow some pride and take a less than perfect ruling for being cleared of something that I said we didn't do.

We didn't tank and the AFL agrees - because you can't prove motive when it comes to actions and experimentation isn't tanking.

Oh yes we have been cleared on paper, but what about inside our club?

That's the part i care about. The AFL can get.......

We still do not have a definition of...

Well that's the AFL's doing. First they harboured and encouraged tanking and secondly they started an investigation without wanting to define the problem they acknowledged by taking away the PP.

Has it ever occurred to you that in those 1100 pages (confirmed amount now), what evidence was present that we haven't heard or seen?

I mean....has the AFL been totally transparent with the football public? Ask yourself that.

N.H.J. (Not Happy Jan)

You should consider renaming your username from WYL to NHJ. It rolls off the tongue better.

And let's not forget the fact that we got our name cleared of tanking with the AFL's approval.

Putting aside all of my desire to get out of this squeaky clean - we never were.

All players needed to give something for this to go away and they all have.

The AFL looks ridiculous, we have been massively fines, Bailey has been humiliated and suspended and CC has been made to look like Richard Nixon.

This was always going to look messy as soon as our disgruntled former Demons became involved in this investigation started by bad luck and an idiot.

I am happy to swallow some pride and take a less than perfect ruling for being cleared of something that I said we didn't do.

We didn't tank and the AFL agrees - because you can't prove motive when it comes to actions and experimentation isn't tanking.

I could not agree more RPFC, It Is What It Is, I for one am glad to move on to Friday night and see how the boys fare. looking forward to see how Hogan and the other debutants play in the red and blue. Would have preferred no charges and to take the fight up to the AFL but its too late now, so you gotta move on. No use pulling your hair out over what might have been.

I have just said i don't give a dam what the AFL say or think...i will never believe anything from HQ, but i am concerned about how our club is standing right now.

Just how united is it.

I can't wait for every commentator and journalist to make a passing mention of all this in connection with us for many years to come. If the day ever comes when we actually play some good footy and are maybe up near the top of the ladder (yeah, right) just wait for the accusations of undeserved success. We have certainly been shafted in the sense that this entire fiasco should not have even happened. Brock McLean FFS.

If we are winning, I couldn't care what they say.. winners are grinners.. losers can please themselves..

I have just said i don't give a dam what the AFL say or think...

Well you should! Which was my point.

Well you should! Which was my point.

your point is moot.

6 other clubs were giulty and the AFL do not care. That says it all to me.

I am only concerned with the inner harmony of the MFC right now.

Another thing, I'll never have to read the Age any more.