'WJ', I think this is John Ralph's spin on what Dennis said. Having heard the interview I don't remember Dennis presuming any guilt at all, he was talking about the detrimental effect that losing draft picks would have on Melbourne and Adelaide if the AFL penalised the clubs.

This is where it all gets looney bordering on dangerous. The truth/facts are long dispensed. What we now have is commentary of half baked ideas bevcoming foder for more commentary and the sustenacne of puplic opinion..

Things are alluded to, people are half quoted, context is an irrelevance and we end up with a giant Chinese Whisper effect.

We started over here >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

<<<<<<<<<<<<but end up !!!

The club is doing well. Sitting schtum !!!

I agree that an unfortunate narrative has emerged, but including a fake twitter account in this 'conversation' is helpful to no-one. Go straight to Stevens, Clark, Robinson, and all the other mouth breathers if you want to.

Just don't belittle our argument by having faux arguments with some bloke who is manning a derogatory fake twitter account.

It's just PR, it is pretty easy...

Just don't belittle our argument by having faux arguments with some bloke who is manning a derogatory fake twitter account.

Had to laugh though. Even a fake Caro twitter account who is taking the [censored] is taking umbrage at a perceived slight on DL! Perhaps the fake Caro has crossed the rubicon and now thinks s/he is actually CW. Spooky.

'WJ', I think this is John Ralph's spin on what Dennis said. Having heard the interview I don't remember Dennis presuming any guilt at all, he was talking about the detrimental effect that losing draft picks would have on Melbourne and Adelaide if the AFL penalised the clubs.

It pains me to say this - but we are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to be found "not guilty". The best we can hope for is that they conclude that "the weight of evidence is not sufficient to prove tanking"............. or better still ...... that "to fully understand tanking they need to examine in detail the way the industry as a whole balances short term and long term needs using Carlton's approach in 2007 as a guide".Short of that we can only hope that they decide to sanction individuals rather than the club as a whole.

We can reasonably hope that we won't suffer any more damage than we already have - but we can't realistically expect to be completely exonerated. Oh how I hope to be proved wrong !!

Silence now is not great.Surely any major change to the expected outcome will have to be leaked soon. I wonder which journo the Age would give it to?

It pains me to say this - but we are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to be found "not guilty". The best we can hope for is that they conclude that "the weight of evidence is not sufficient to prove tanking"............. or better still ...... that "to fully understand tanking they need to examine in detail the way the industry as a whole balances short term and long term needs using Carlton's approach in 2007 as a guide".Short of that we can only hope that they decide to sanction individuals rather than the club as a whole.

We can reasonably hope that we won't suffer any more damage than we already have - but we can't realistically expect to be completely exonerated. Oh how I hope to be proved wrong !!

Silence now is not great.Surely any major change to the expected outcome will have to be leaked soon. I wonder which journo the Age would give it to?

Given there's 3 investigations ongoing, there's plenty of matters to be covered. And given our club has sought an assurance from the AFL......(see McLardy's statement), there's still a lot of water to flow under the bridge in this investigation.

And whilst there's no reason why the AFL can't have it all sown up prior to Nov 22, it's becoming increasingly unlikely that an outcome will effect this year's draft, given the club's statement.

There's many out there that want to see Melbourne punished by draft/premiership points/fines, without weight of evidence. Including media. If they had their hands on hard evidence they would have released it. Including statements from those interviewed.

There's no confirmation Melbourne will be penalised. I wouldn't be getting sucked in by the media storm at this point.

It pains me to say this - but we are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to be found "not guilty". The best we can hope for is that they conclude that "the weight of evidence is not sufficient to prove tanking"............. or better still ...... that "to fully understand tanking they need to examine in detail the way the industry as a whole balances short term and long term needs using Carlton's approach in 2007 as a guide".Short of that we can only hope that they decide to sanction individuals rather than the club as a whole.

We can reasonably hope that we won't suffer any more damage than we already have - but we can't realistically expect to be completely exonerated. Oh how I hope to be proved wrong !!

Silence now is not great.Surely any major change to the expected outcome will have to be leaked soon. I wonder which journo the Age would give it to?

You are either guilty or not. You cannot hand out sanctions based on degrees of probabilities. It is bit like being a little bit pregnant.

This is the bind that the AFL find themselves in now. My only concern is that Vlad's ego is of such a size he may want to be seen to be doing something in this regard, but let's hope he receives some wise counsel and that is what prevails in the end.

It pains me to say this - but we are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to be found "not guilty". The best we can hope for is that they conclude that "the weight of evidence is not sufficient to prove tanking"............. or better still ...... that "to fully understand tanking they need to examine in detail the way the industry as a whole balances short term and long term needs using Carlton's approach in 2007 as a guide".Short of that we can only hope that they decide to sanction individuals rather than the club as a whole.

We can reasonably hope that we won't suffer any more damage than we already have - but we can't realistically expect to be completely exonerated. Oh how I hope to be proved wrong !!

Silence now is not great.Surely any major change to the expected outcome will have to be leaked soon. I wonder which journo the Age would give it to?

This post demonstrates everything that's frustrating about this sordid episode. The club is, despite what the media is saying, not guilty of anything. It may or may not be found guilty in the future of something it may or may not be charged with but for the time being the presumption of innocence applies.

And for your information, in the event that some court, tribunal or other body hears charges and makes a finding that the "weight of evidence is not sufficient to prove tanking" then it will be a finding of "not guilty".

This I advise.

My brief fee is £250.

Thank you.

This post demonstrates everything that's frustrating about this sordid episode. The club is, despite what the media is saying, not guilty of anything. It may or may not be found guilty in the future of something it may or may not be charged with but for the time being the presumption of innocence applies.

And for your information, in the event that some court, tribunal or other body hears charges and makes a finding that the "weight of evidence is not sufficient to prove tanking" then it will be a finding of "not guilty".

This I advise.

My brief fee is £250.

Thank you.

That's very cheap Rumpole. Perhaps you could help me with a stalking matter to do with a certain female journalist.

How is she who must be obeyed by the way?

This post demonstrates everything that's frustrating about this sordid episode. The club is, despite what the media is saying, not guilty of anything. It may or may not be found guilty in the future of something it may or may not be charged with but for the time being the presumption of innocence applies.

And for your information, in the event that some court, tribunal or other body hears charges and makes a finding that the "weight of evidence is not sufficient to prove tanking" then it will be a finding of "not guilty".

This I advise.

My brief fee is £250.

Thank you.

Thankyou Rumpole. I am aware of that - but this is neither a court nor a tribunal - but rather an investigation initiated by she who must be obeyed

Thankyou Rumpole. I am aware of that - but this is neither a court nor a tribunal - but rather an investigation initiated by she who must be obeyed

And as such, your previous post is moot and nothing more than obiter

It's gone full circle. Crikey.com has today published the following in its Tips and Rumours section (it's possibly behind a paywall):

"Demon trolls rally against Caro. The Age's chief football scribe Caroline Wilson has gone hard on the off-field troubles of the Melbourne Demons. In the darker reaches of the internet the club's fans are hitting back, opening "The Wilson File" to compile all her apparently unfair criticisms of the club. It's extensive, certainly, but they're getting a little feral ..."

trolls? darker reaches of the internet? a little feral? ...what the...

It's gone full circle. Crikey.com has today published the following in its Tips and Rumours section (it's possibly behind a paywall):

"Demon trolls rally against Caro. The Age's chief football scribe Caroline Wilson has gone hard on the off-field troubles of the Melbourne Demons. In the darker reaches of the internet the club's fans are hitting back, opening "The Wilson File" to compile all her apparently unfair criticisms of the club. It's extensive, certainly, but they're getting a little feral ..."

trolls? darker reaches of the internet? a little feral? ...what the...

good the news is travelling.

Keep Wilson accountable...

It's gone full circle. Crikey.com has today published the following in its Tips and Rumours section (it's possibly behind a paywall):

"Demon trolls rally against Caro. The Age's chief football scribe Caroline Wilson has gone hard on the off-field troubles of the Melbourne Demons. In the darker reaches of the internet the club's fans are hitting back, opening "The Wilson File" to compile all her apparently unfair criticisms of the club. It's extensive, certainly, but they're getting a little feral ..."

trolls? darker reaches of the internet? a little feral? ...what the...

Crikey are a media company and as such suffer a similar disease to all media.

They are all happy to have a go at anyone with half the factors or little at all.

But when someone hits back well they get all defensive.

As a group they are beyond criticism.

Fortunately most of us understand this is crap, just take a look at situation with the press in the UK. Enough said.

But at least crikey are bringing the other side to the notice of the public even if it is in a snide way.

It's gone full circle. Crikey.com has today published the following in its Tips and Rumours section (it's possibly behind a paywall):

"Demon trolls rally against Caro. The Age's chief football scribe Caroline Wilson has gone hard on the off-field troubles of the Melbourne Demons. In the darker reaches of the internet the club's fans are hitting back, opening "The Wilson File" to compile all her apparently unfair criticisms of the club. It's extensive, certainly, but they're getting a little feral ..."

trolls? darker reaches of the internet? a little feral? ...what the...

I would think you wouldn't have to reach any dark places to find it...and by definition wouldn't Wilson be the troll?

This is where it all gets looney bordering on dangerous. The truth/facts are long dispensed. What we now have is commentary of half baked ideas bevcoming foder for more commentary and the sustenacne of puplic opinion..

Things are alluded to, people are half quoted, context is an irrelevance and we end up with a giant Chinese Whisper effect.

We started over here >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

<<<<<<<<<<<<but end up !!!

The club is doing well. Sitting schtum !!!

Well put 'BB'.

by definition wouldn't Wilson be the troll?

Exactly. Troll implies people posting derogatory posts on other peoples social media platforms or websites. This is the opposite - an internal thread on a member based forum. One assumes CW is not compelled to go to DL and read the thread.

Or perhaps she is on here already under a pseudonym?

Exactly. Troll implies people posting derogatory posts on other peoples social media platforms or websites. This is the opposite - an internal thread on a member based forum. One assumes CW is not compelled to go to DL and read the thread.

Or perhaps she is on here already under a pseudonym?

She has certainly put up some derogatory posts about the MFC and it's supporters on the Age website which is a commonly used site by people on this forum.

Certainly things on Crikey are read with a grain of salt ...... but Caro's attitudes are getting out there .... so bravo Crikey - cynicism and all!!

This post demonstrates everything that's frustrating about this sordid episode. The club is, despite what the media is saying, not guilty of anything. It may or may not be found guilty in the future of something it may or may not be charged with but for the time being the presumption of innocence applies.

And for your information, in the event that some court, tribunal or other body hears charges and makes a finding that the "weight of evidence is not sufficient to prove tanking" then it will be a finding of "not guilty".

This I advise.

My brief fee is £250.

Thank you.

ahh..some less than common ...sense !!!

It's gone full circle. Crikey.com has today published the following in its Tips and Rumours section (it's possibly behind a paywall):

"Demon trolls rally against Caro. The Age's chief football scribe Caroline Wilson has gone hard on the off-field troubles of the Melbourne Demons. In the darker reaches of the internet the club's fans are hitting back, opening "The Wilson File" to compile all her apparently unfair criticisms of the club. It's extensive, certainly, but they're getting a little feral ..."

trolls? darker reaches of the internet? a little feral? ...what the...

Darker reaches of the Internet as opposed to the darker reaches of the mainstream media like the Age where being feral is de rigeur if you happen to be the chief football writer and you have the Melbourne Football Club in your sights.

Feral indeed!!

She has certainly put up some derogatory posts about the MFC and it's supporters on the Age website which is a commonly used site by people on this forum.

Have you got a link to this page?? or do i have to subscribe to the paper to see it?

"Demon trolls rally against Caro. The Age's chief football scribe Caroline Wilson has gone hard on the off-field troubles of the Melbourne Demons. In the darker reaches of the internet the club's fans are hitting back, opening "The Wilson File" to compile all her apparently unfair criticisms of the club. It's extensive, certainly, but they're getting a little feral ..."

Caro must be shaking in her boots at the prospect.

Caro must be shaking in her boots at the prospect.

Don't think I've ever seen a useful post from you

Darker reaches of the Internet as opposed to the darker reaches of the mainstream media like the Age where being feral is de rigeur if you happen to be the chief football writer and you have the Melbourne Football Club in your sights.

Feral indeed!!

Whoever thinks DL is the darker reaches of the internet is reading too much into the name of it. Perhaps Google sent them to the wrong Demonland B)

Looking seriously at this thread there are several useful links which go to the core of the issue at hand being the reliability and therefore the credibility of the Journalist as well as her honing in on the club and one individual within it in particular.

The individual at Crikey would do better to examine these issues. The Stephen Mayne Crikey would have smelt the Rat. Sounds like it's turned into a social notebook....paywall Pfffft!

It pains me to say this - but we are kidding ourselves if we think we are going to be found "not guilty". The best we can hope for is that they conclude that "the weight of evidence is not sufficient to prove tanking"............. or better still ...... that "to fully understand tanking they need to examine in detail the way the industry as a whole balances short term and long term needs using Carlton's approach in 2007 as a guide".Short of that we can only hope that they decide to sanction individuals rather than the club as a whole.

We can reasonably hope that we won't suffer any more damage than we already have - but we can't realistically expect to be completely exonerated. Oh how I hope to be proved wrong !!

Silence now is not great.Surely any major change to the expected outcome will have to be leaked soon. I wonder which journo the Age would give it to?

We don't need to be exonerated. Just no charges laid will do me fine.