Holes in the list

[Binmans PA 26,292]

So with Neeld confirming Watts will form part of the defensive back six next year, it got me thinking about our list in a slightly different way. I started to note down who would be there and who could perform their role better than sufficiently. It's not particularly surprising that I still found quite a few holes in the list and/or unknown quantities.

This is not intended to be a pessimistic thread, merely a pragmatic view of our list, by someone who's been buoyed by a fantastic trade period thus far.

I've broken the team down into three categories. Backs, Mids and Forwards.

BACKS:

- Frawley, McDonald, Garland & Watts are all walk up starters for mine. Frawley can take mobile talls or big hulks. McDonald can play on a similar type, but needs to improve his disposal and decision making by foot. Garland is capable on the bigger blokes (as evidenced by his performance on Buddy twice previous), but provides the back six with fantastic versatility, as he can also take the dangerous small forwards; your Riolis and Ballantynes. Meanwhile, Watts is clearly the best kick in our team and should become the main distributor out of the back half. His height and pace also enable him to play on talls (let's say a Jack Gunston) or smalls.

- What does this say though? Well, it says we're missing two starters in our back six. I could see Nicholson filling a role as a running defender and line-breaker in 2013, but beyond that I believe a more reliable Clinton Young type is required. We also need another top distributor by foot, as Aaron Davey became a few years ago. Could Dunn provide this? Quite possibly. By my reckoning, there's two holes in the starting back six.

- Depth-wise, Joel Macdonald isn't perfect, but suits a KPB back-up role. This post assumes Rivers is out, otherwise he also make for a fantastic depth player. However, his lack of pace is a liability. Finally, Stef Martin plays far better down back and could fill that role, as well as provide a chop out in the ruck (provided he isn't traded of course).

- Unknown quantities: Troy Davis (probably delisted) and Tapscott (can he hold down a role back there?).

MIDS:

- Jones and Grimes are the only walk up starters to the midfield long term at the moment. Jones improved dramatically this year. I haven't always been a fan, but he made the step up to the cusp of A grade this year. Our best mid by a long way. Grimes is the other that consistently has an impact, albeit not enough, but is at least consistent.

- It's no secret that we have a dearth of midfield talent or at least too much "unknown" about our potential midfield that it could present itself as a glaring weakness. This may or may not be the case, depending on who takes that next step up. So in this department our unknown quantities are: Trengove, Viney, McKenzie, Howe, Gysberts and Pick 4. You might be wondering why Trengove is listed as an unknown quantity, but for me, his ineffectiveness (outside of his one-per centers) this year does not resemble his 'potential' talent. This could be attributed to an increased workload from Misson and the rest of the FD, but either way, he still has upside and improvement to come (I hope). Nevertheless, he becomes an unknown quantity. Viney could step straight in and provide an instant improvement or it may take some time. The same can be said for Pick 4. Jordie McKenzie needs to find another string to his bow, otherwise he'll find himself on the outer. At the moment, he's far too one-dimensional. His one hope is to lock down a tagging role. He must do that during 2013 and learn to kick the football. Meanwhile, Howe has the engine to become a midfielder, but was particularly ineffective there this year I thought. Finally, Gysberts is the real potential 'x factor', if you like. If he can click, particularly at the same time as Viney and Pick 4, all of a sudden our midfield becomes dangerous. It also takes the pressure off Jones (although I'd argue Jones is probably best with his back to the wall).

- There is so much unknown about our midfield that it's difficult to determine the holes, let alone poke holes through at the moment, but we should know more come draft time 2013. If we can add some experience in say Farren Ray to our mix, that may prove important. Long-term, we should be looking for at least 8-10 A and B grade midfielders. I think we're still missing two or three mids, but can't be sure of that until the end of the 2013 season.

FORWARDS:

- Clark, Dawes, Byrnes and Blease are all walk up starters, and form quite a potent attack now. There's a mixture of height, pace and strength. The only thing missing from our forwardline is arguably 'x factor' that a Jurrah could have provided. That said, Blease may bring this in spades.

- In terms of a forward six, I'd be looking at rotating someone like Howe (more 'x factor') through the flanks and even deep forward. If Sylvia can get his body and mind right, he too could rotate between the middle and the forward flank. Aaron Davey is probably finished, but I could see him getting a few games as a crumber in his final year. Once again, can Tapscott grab a position and make it his?

- The unknown quantity here could well be someone like Dominic Barry, rotating between forward and midfield.

- The hole in our forward half is the crumbing forward, currently filled by Byrnes, but for how long? In two to three years time we'll need to have recruited someone to replace him.

So having broken all of that down, it's interesting to see how far away we are from being a finals threat, let alone a premiership contender.

BACK POCKET FULL BACK BACK POCKET

Garland Frawley ?

BACK FLANK C-HALF BACK BACK FLANK

Watts McDonald ?

WING CENTRE WING

? Jones ?

FWD FLANK C-HALF FWD FWD FLANK

? Dawes ?

FWD POCKET FULL FWD FWD POCKET

Byrnes Clark Blease

RUCK ROVER ROVER

Grimes ?

RUCKMEN

Jamar, Spencer, Fitzpatrick & Gawn, all of whom I'd keep.

There are some names I've missed out like Morton, Strauss and Sellar. They're all fringe for mine though. Obviously, it's very speculative at the moment, but hey, that's what the off-season is all about. If we're lucky, at least three or four of those question marks will dissolve come the end of 2013 and we'll be well on our way. Dreaming? Maybe.

Thoughts?

[Jordie_tackles 354]

Saying Trengove is not a walk up start for me is where is stopped reading

[demon-4-life 467]

Ummm surely Howe is a walk up start.

[demon-4-life 467]

And I'd put Viney as a walk up start.

[Binmans PA 26,292]

Saying Trengove is not a walk up start for me is where is stopped reading

Each to their own. Trengove will be a walk up starter for Round One. Don't get me wrong. But in two to three years? We'll see. I hope he is.

[Binmans PA 26,292]

Ummm surely Howe is a walk up start.

Once again, Howe will be a walk up starter Round One 2013, but by 2014 we'll know whether he'll be a midfielder/forward, midfielder or forward. I don't think that's been solidified yet.

[Demons 32 235]

Howe wasn't that effective this year?

Tell'em he's dreamin....

[Binmans PA 26,292]

Howe wasn't that effective this year?

Tell'em he's dreamin....

Going to 17 games live, his clearance work certainly wasn't B grade. Certainly effective with his marking, but as a midfielder you truly believe he was effective?

[Bonkers 918]

Ummm surely Howe is a walk up start.

Grimes is also a walk up start being the captain along with Trengove. Sylvia & Viney also

[Demons 32 235]

Once again, Howe will be a walk up starter Round One 2013, but by 2014 we'll know whether he'll be a midfielder/forward, midfielder or forward. I don't think that's been solidified yet.

Look I appreciate that you have put some thought into this and well done on that front....

But Howe and Trengove are walk up easily in 2013, 2014, 2015 etc.

[Binmans PA 26,292]

Look I appreciate that you have put some thought into this and well done on that front....

But Howe and Trengove are walk up easily in 2013, 2014, 2015 etc.

Some probably said that about Moloney too. But fair enough. I hope you're right.

[Demons 32 235]

Going to 17 games live, his clearance work certainly wasn't B grade. Certainly effective with his marking, but as a midfielder you truly believe he was effective?

No need to spruik about being at games live, im pretty certain most regular posters on demonland hit most, if not all games during the year.

First off, Howe is not a clearance player. So we can't judge him on that one specific aspect of midfield play.

What Howe does do is chase, go third up in ruck situations, is roughly 8 times out of 10 a winner in 1 on 1 situations, has pace and makes good decisions.

The only knock I would have on Howe would be his disposal efficiency, his kicking style is quite odd. However this is not so extreme that I would claim him to be ineffective.

[Binmans PA 26,292]

Grimes is also a walk up start being the captain along with Trengove. Sylvia & Viney also

Definitely noted that.

Though saying Viney is a walk up starter is assuming far too much. I hope he's the gun we've been longing for. I'm sure we all do, but just because he's a highly rated youngster, doesn't make him walk up. Sorry. That's a Dean Bailey attitude. Let's hope he becomes a walk up starter in 2014 though.

[Demons 32 235]

Some probably said that about Moloney too. But fair enough. I hope you're right.

Moloney was always a one trick pony who never chased opponents, never had good disposal and never imposed his large frame in the correct way.

Many posters were calling that he wouldn't last long in the MFC side 2 years ago, hence why many posters didn't rate him as a potential captain.

[Scipio 5,868]

Some interesting points, I think one of our biggest needs is another small, tough and accountable defender, ie another Bartram just for those teams with a couple of dangerous small forwards. I think Garland does well on them much of the time but quite often I see some of the small guys get away from him a bit and I think he performs better on talls anyway.

[Binmans PA 26,292]

No need to spruik about being at games live, im pretty certain most regular posters on demonland hit most, if not all games during the year.

First off, Howe is not a clearance player. So we can't judge him on that one specific aspect of midfield play.

What Howe does do is chase, go third up in ruck situations, is roughly 8 times out of 10 a winner in 1 on 1 situations, has pace and makes good decisions.

The only knock I would have on Howe would be his disposal efficiency, his kicking style is quite odd. However this is not so extreme that I would claim him to be ineffective.

This is a good point. Trengove has also had some success at this. But to be an effective midfielder you have to win enough of your own ball there. I don't think he has yet.

[dee-tox 4,828]

Good assessment. You'd hope that Strauss, Blease, Tapscott, Trengove, Watts, Tynan, Morton, Davey et al, can fill the holes.

But there are some big steps to make.

Ray will help if we snare him

[Binmans PA 26,292]

Moloney was always a one trick pony who never chased opponents, never had good disposal and never imposed his large frame in the correct way.

I agree.

[Binmans PA 26,292]

Some interesting points, I think one of our biggest needs is another small, tough and accountable defender, ie another Bartram just for those teams with a couple of dangerous small forwards. I think Garland does well on them much of the time but quite often I see some of the small guys get away from him a bit and I think he performs better on talls anyway.

Yeah, I'd agree with this. Does Nicholson fill those shoes? His accountability and disposal are questionable perhaps.

[GIRO 63]

We need mids I can't see why we keep wanting 190cm + players, get mids now melbourne !!

[monoccular 16,281]

Howe in the world could you leave out Jumping Jeremy, either from the midfield or the forward line?

[DemonWA 3,495]

good OP.

I think Sylvia needs to haev a good 2013 and get his name on the 'walk up start mids list', becasue the glaring issue with our midfielders is that we have no experienced, consistant older player in our midfield and we sure need some!

[Binmans PA 26,292]

Howe in the world could you leave out Jumping Jeremy, either from the midfield or the forward line?

Mainly due to the fact that he's in between two positions at the moment. He had a good year. If he's going to play midfield though I want to start seeing him win more of his own ball.

[Binmans PA 26,292]

good OP.

I think Sylvia needs to haev a good 2013 and get his name on the 'walk up start mids list', becasue the glaring issue with our midfielders is that we have no experienced, consistant older player in our midfield and we sure need some!

Very good point. I'll be fascinated to see if Trengove and Grimes can take that next step too.

[Jesse Christ 2,884]

At the time of Neeld's appointment the holes in our list were obvious- we had no forward target, very scarce midfield class and no rebounding defender. I feel those were our holes.

The forward line now has targets; Clark, Dawes, Hogan (2014) and Byrnes. Holes plugged, forward line fixed.

The midfield now has Viney and pick #4 (hopefully Wines) and possibly a trade which is yet to happen. Although still a work in progress the addition of Viney and pick 4 should not be underestimated. All of a sudden Jones isn't the sole target of the opposition, and if Trengove can find his burst again our midfield is back to being at least competitive. The midfield holes aren't plugged yet, but they are definitely on our way. Midfield mended and on the improve.

The backline has been seen by many to be the strongest line in our team. We have a mix to cover most forward lines and with the revelation which has been Tommy Mac, and Watts new found form as a floating backman of sorts, we now find ourselves with an embarrassment of riches tall backs. Rivers can be considered excess stock now. I feel we still lack a genuine small back that can break lines and shut down opposition smalls. I don't think we have this covered right now, although I can see Barry doing this. Much water to go under the bridge before we can assess that though.

So in my view the only holes in our list right now is a rebounding small back with pace and accuracy, and one or two more classy mids.

I think 3 holes now (1 defender 2 classy mids), as opposed to 8 (IMO) when Neeld started is much better.

There aren't as many holes in our bucket dear Liza anymore.