A win against the Dons. That the only thing we can be sure of.

It's sad, always optimistic this time of the year,

whether we are in the finals or not !

Next year 10th equals bliss,

hard to see where the improvement will come from,

But I did not fore see the fall !

Go Dees !!!

Let's answer this after the trade and F/A Period. I need to know the soldiers we have.

Its hard to see us improving more than the teams above us on the ladder, however with any luck we can do a WCE circa 2011, or Crows of 2012 and rise up the ladder and take the AFL comuninty by suprise

I want to see improvement in most players, improvement in fitness, improvement in game-plan and a good run with injuries to our better players. I want to see the making of a really good midfield. I want to see it starting to take shape and the ND should go a long way to doing this.

I'll be fascinated by who are rated our best 6 players at the end of 2013, as well as who finishes top 5 in the B&F. Trengove's aim should be to finish top 3 in the B&F and my prediction is that Viney will finish top two (subject to injury). And no, I'm not putting wild expectations on him, and nor do I think he's the "messiah", it's just my prediction. He'll play virtually the entire year as a 19 year old (bar rounds 1 and 2) and has a rare appetite for winning contested ball. He'll be the only true "first dibs" midfielder on our list.

Neeld and Co really need to start making tangible improvements after a second preseason. In the main, the players that haven't "bought in" will be gone. I feel confident that we'll see significant improvements across the board in 2013 despite low public expectations.

Barring a draft windfall, I expect us to finish bottom 2 next year. The sides around us on the ladder have much greater scope for improvement than we do. That may still be 4-5 wins depending on how other teams perform.

Do you really expect draftees to nake such a djfference from day dot?

I agree with those who say we can "turn this around quickly", but I expect small changes and then a sharp improvement, but not until the last quarter of the season, when many won't quite recognise the change.

They'll only see that we are winning and able to implement the things we want to, but they wont have a clue how it happened.

I need these things to occur to enjoy the year

1. Watts to lift his intensity, his workrate and to start taking contested marks. I don't care where he plays on the ground.

2. Mitch Clark to play 22 games

3. James Frawley and Tom McDonald to become the pillars of a strong defence

4. Sam Blease to keep improving

5. With the inclusion of Viney ,a solid draft pick and a recruit I want to see some improvement in the midfield

6. Trengove to pick up some lost pace and kick some goals from 50 metres

8.. Win games against Essendon, Carlton, Geelong and Richmond

I want revenge on Geelong

Beamer getting dragged when he next plays the MFC on the hallowed turf.

Beamer getting dragged when he next plays the MFC on the hallowed turf.

He likes the tough guy stuff, so I assume there will be some sparks!

Do you really expect draftees to nake such a djfference from day dot?

I can only assume you're referring to me...

I said it was my prediction. And I wouldn't have said it if I didn't think it.

How did Toby Greene go this year ? Yes, I know it was unusual. How did Joel Selwood go in his first year ? How did Nathan Buckley go in his first year at the Bears ? He came second in the B&F to Martin Leslie - just. He was already 20 and like Viney was mature enough and strong enough to impact from day one. How did another left footed Oakleigh Charger in Andrew Gaff go this year ? In his second year he averaged 24.6 disposals and played every game. He spent half the year as a 19 year old. Viney is already heavier and stronger than Gaff. Leigh Matthews won a B&F at Hawthorn in 1971 when he was 19. Yes, it was his third year and this will only be Viney's first, but there are some players that come into the system that are prepared to go from day one. By the end of his first year supporters will be surprised by his attack on the contest. They'll be surprised by his mindset. They won't remember another young Melbourne player come into the side that was as ready to mix it with men. There aren't too many players come into the system with Viney's makeup.

I don't expect others to agree and nor do I care, but with Viney's traits and his already strong body I expect him to impact early on. Will I be disappointed if he doesn't ? Not at all. Will I be surprised if he doesn't ? Yes. As I said, it's my prediction.

I'm pretty excited about Jones, Viney, Clark, Howe and Maxy Gawn getting a run. It will be nice to watch potential stars going around instead of the garbage from 08-10.

I would like us to finish in the 8 obviously, but failing that I wouldn't be unhappy with 10 wins.

Hahaha if we ever win the flag ill have to sell my house to pay for the bender ill go on

In grade 1 a mate and i agreed that when MFC win the premiership we would walk down the main street of our hometown naked!

Do you really expect draftees to nake such a djfference from day dot?

I agree with those who say we can "turn this around quickly", but I expect small changes and then a sharp improvement, but not until the last quarter of the season, when many won't quite recognise the change.

They'll only see that we are winning and able to implement the things we want to, but they wont have a clue how it happened.

Oh learned one. If the midfield next year had the inclusion of Viney and Toumpas then probably not from day dot, but just because most of our draft picks in the last 4 years or more have taken eons to come on (if at all) doesnt make that the AFL norm. Daniel Rich comes to mind...Buckley from day dot. Brad Green's first season was impressive,etc.

I came to this conclusion by applying logic:

Mark Neeld basically has until round 11 or 12 of the 2013 season to show some significant improvements or his appointment could be at risk. All the people I have spoken to with varying insights into the direction of the club under Neeld suggest that there will be wholesale list changes pending - and our feelers for out of contract and free agent players have left almost no stone unturned which again supports the argument that wholesale changes are pending assuming we can attract some of these potentials.

Shannon Byrnes is a given. The training regime should start to yield dividends next season and it will be clearer who is up to it and who isnt (if it isnt already clear with pending delistings and trades). Pick up a few more seasons players with a few years in them still like Koby Stevens, Chris Knights, that tall from North combined with a bolstering of our mids with Viney and if lucky Wellingham (has Goldsack signed?) and presuming the large list changes can gell as a team and get Neeld's direction we might see some significant improvement.

That being said there are so many variables here that I could not even predict what will happen. I personally believe a win would be 8+ wins in 2013 or a ladder placing around 10ish. But it could all go pearshaped again and see us down at 18th and Mark Neeld's coaching future snuffed out with Ratten taking the reigns in 2014

the only prediction I have is that a lot of players will have proven to Neeld that they have 'behaved their way out'.

I would have thought the minimum would be 6-8 wins.

4 wins or less and there might be carnage.

Im predicting about 4-6 wins to be honest. I would love for an 7-10 win season but we would have to pull something out of no where

Thats what the draft and trade period is for. i'm hoping that with the changes to coaching staff and others in the club we can change our fortunes in the draft and not pick duds! if we do well then there is no reason why we can't get 7-10 wins next season

too early to make a call, depends on all the teams around us, who they pick up, who they lose, who we lose, who we pick up, also how will gold coast go next year without as many injuries? i expect improvement from players like jones(he's improved every year so expect that to continue) mitch to get a full season, hopefully a good pre season, howe to continue his rise(he was very dissapointed with his set shots so expect him to be better next year).

I would think Grimes would improve he was getting pretty consistent towards the end of the year, trengove will step up a bit more with Frawley finding it easier in defense with less pressure on him due to the midfield, with young t.m getting more experience(with experience comes time with the ball so hopefully better disposal, or playing within limitations.)

all this said, every team around us will be expecting improvement too, so it all depends on who improves more.

Its only natural to be pessimistic based on 2012 but I am optimisitic. We had a crap year but clubs like Fremantle, Adelaide, Sydney, Essendon and Richmond - we were beating in 2010 and 2011 by significant amounts. Their lists and our lists havent changed that much but their results are much better. Adelaide / Richmond got a ruckman. Sydney, Fremantle got a new coach. Confidence and luck helps. But what they have added isnt that much more than we have added. Players just matured and our list is doing the same with notables like Watts, Grimes, Blease getting game time. If we wind back the clock to the end of the 2010 season we said - great prospects in 2011. Then we drew against the Swans in round 1 2011. At the time we were deflated - but it turns out that that team is playing in a Grand Final in 2012 - tell me who they have recruited this team that was only good enough to draw with us in 2011 that has catapulted them into a Grand Final? Is Longmire some freak? My point is that there is a fine line between average and good.

We have a demanding capable coach, we have many maturing 50+ games types, we have a large number of top draft picks, we have money to spend and off field we seem to have a modicum of order. I expect that we will see 2012 as an aberation. I expect that we will draft another Mitch Clarke type (mature proven / not necessarily tall forward) and I expect we will also buy for the long term. I expect we will knock on the finals door. Dont get carried away with pessimism I am sure our players arent.

Its only natural to be pessimistic based on 2012 but I am optimisitic. We had a crap year but clubs like Fremantle, Adelaide, Sydney, Essendon and Richmond - we were beating in 2010 and 2011 by significant amounts. Their lists and our lists havent changed that much but their results are much better. Adelaide / Richmond got a ruckman. Sydney, Fremantle got a new coach. Confidence and luck helps. But what they have added isnt that much more than we have added. Players just matured and our list is doing the same with notables like Watts, Grimes, Blease getting game time. If we wind back the clock to the end of the 2010 season we said - great prospects in 2011. Then we drew against the Swans in round 1 2011. At the time we were deflated - but it turns out that that team is playing in a Grand Final in 2012 - tell me who they have recruited this team that was only good enough to draw with us in 2011 that has catapulted them into a Grand Final? Is Longmire some freak? My point is that there is a fine line between average and good.

We have a demanding capable coach, we have many maturing 50+ games types, we have a large number of top draft picks, we have money to spend and off field we seem to have a modicum of order. I expect that we will see 2012 as an aberation. I expect that we will draft another Mitch Clarke type (mature proven / not necessarily tall forward) and I expect we will also buy for the long term. I expect we will knock on the finals door. Dont get carried away with pessimism I am sure our players arent.

knocking on the top 8 looks like a different league of teams compared to us at the moment, i went through and listed where i expect some improvement(left out a fair few just the sack of not writing a novel) but other teams expect improvement too.

The teams you mentioned did just that, improved. we didnt. you mention the sydney win, i view that as a fluke, happens in football. we played a knights style attacking game plan for a few years with out much defense, you see this year that sydney are in the final with focusing on defense, look at west coast, they went from an attacking game with the midfield lead by cousins(under rated by alot due to his distractions) judd, cox fletcher embley, then the midfield moved on, they fell away then were hopeless couldnt hit a target, no one saw them competing for years, changed to a defensive mindset game style and flew up the ladder, shouldnt of been so unexpected looking at there list with so many experienced good players, they improved also they dragged their younger player up as well and look at them.

while i see we are now more focused on defense, i can see where some improvement will come from, i just dont see the senior players to drag the young players up, it will be hard work through the players i mentioned earlier.

knocking on the top 8 looks like a different league of teams compared to us at the moment, i went through and listed where i expect some improvement(left out a fair few just the sack of not writing a novel) but other teams expect improvement too.

The teams you mentioned did just that, improved. we didnt. you mention the sydney win, i view that as a fluke, happens in football. we played a knights style attacking game plan for a few years with out much defense, you see this year that sydney are in the final with focusing on defense, look at west coast, they went from an attacking game with the midfield lead by cousins(under rated by alot due to his distractions) judd, cox fletcher embley, then the midfield moved on, they fell away then were hopeless couldnt hit a target, no one saw them competing for years, changed to a defensive mindset game style and flew up the ladder, shouldnt of been so unexpected looking at there list with so many experienced good players, they improved also they dragged their younger player up as well and look at them.

while i see we are now more focused on defense, i can see where some improvement will come from, i just dont see the senior players to drag the young players up, it will be hard work through the players i mentioned earlier.

Wc make my point further. They were average but to be fair they had and have a core of seasoned champions including cox, embley, glass kerr on to which they added young talent. My point is still that there isnt much between poor and average and average and good.

I take your point about winning defence and that is surely a feature for the WC, Syd - interesting to watch Adelaide attack through the corridor in their last game a la Geelong - attack being the best form of defence perhaps.

Edited September 28, 201213 yr by Dinosaur Rover

Wc make my point further. They were average but to be fair they had and have a core of seasoned champions including cox, embley, glass kerr on to which they added young talent. My point is still that there isnt much between poor and average and average and good.

I take your point about winning defence and that is surely a feature for the WC, Syd - interesting to watch Adelaide attack through the corridor in their last game a la Geelong - attack being the best form of defence perhaps.

under craig adelaide were a very "drilled" side. for years they had that defensive mindset drilled into them, think back a few years when craig was coach and everyone was tipping them as a contender, they still attacked very well, they had alot of players coming to the end of their career's and in craigs last few seasons he copped it for being too defensive and lost the job, they've had young talent coming through for a few years now, and it "blossomed" this year under a new coach, he was able to play to the strengths of this new talent and players like dangerfield stepping up another level. but what influence did craigs defensive training come into play, i bet they wouldnt of been half the side if they were just let free to attack, its an overstatement in the media, they still do all the defensive parts of the game very well, how else could you explain losing 2 key defenders in 2 years and not having players like talia(spelling?) exposed. they also still had a few very good players with experience to drag the younger guys up and teach the players like dangerfield what was needed.

I need these things to occur to enjoy the year

1. Watts to lift his intensity, his workrate and to start taking contested marks. I don't care where he plays on the ground.

2. Mitch Clark to play 22 games

3. James Frawley and Tom McDonald to become the pillars of a strong defence

4. Sam Blease to keep improving

5. With the inclusion of Viney ,a solid draft pick and a recruit I want to see some improvement in the midfield

6. Trengove to pick up some lost pace and kick some goals from 50 metres

8.. Win games against Essendon, Carlton, Geelong and Richmond

good luck with 1 ,6, and 8.

5 to 7 honest wins with a couple of 'honourable'/unlucky losses against 'contenders' would be an excellent return imo.

I assume point 7 was "win the flag" but you changed your mind

Edited September 28, 201213 yr by IRW

I don't keer how many wins we get just as long as we but in 100% every week and dont loose by 100 Points any more.

I hate the fact that everyone thinks richmond are a head of us now because of 1 bad season.

Still had the same list as 2011.