Is it really only a couple of years since we thrashed the Swannies by 73 points ( Roos greatest ever coaching loss ) and last season had that draw at the SCG in round one ? The 2012 contrast between the sides is breathtaking . At least West Coast and Adelaide have shown that sides CAN rebound quickly .

And Freo shows they can learn new game plans within half a season.

Luckily its all Baleys fault, so we'll be ok with the Schoolteacher

  On 26/09/2012 at 08:31, IRW said:

And Freo shows they can learn new game plans within half a season.

Luckily its all Baleys fault, so we'll be ok with the Schoolteacher

I reckoned I hugged 10 new best friends in the Frank Gey Smith Bat at the G that day..Every time I came back with a beer the ball was falling into someones arms and they were kicking a goal.

I thought I'd been reborn in the early 60's.. deja vu

Both the above posts give at least some reason for optimism, unless you are one of the several trolls - and I won't name them but hey are well known to regular readers - here who seem to just see negatives everywhere (maybe they worked at Kodak before it folded ).

GO DEES,

  On 26/09/2012 at 08:36, monoccular said:

Both the above posts give at least some reason for optimism, unless you are one of the several trolls - and I won't name them but hey are well known to regular readers - here who seem to just see negatives everywhere (maybe they worked at Kodak before it folded ).

GO DEES,

Why not name the trolls and put your views on the line Mono?

I, for one, have backed the players all the time - unless I am very much mistaken, both West Coast and Adelaide didn't require massive player turnovers to improve their performance. Neither did they have massive internal dissension.

And neither playing group permitted a loss of 186.

The playing group which you so support produced one of the wretched performances in AFL/VFL history. BEFORE neeld, not after. They played weak, unacountable footy all that year and only beat teams when the opposition was at a low ebb. I'm glad you embraced such a shameful set of performances produced by that group. I'm rapt that you 'back' the playing group - a group that is rumoured to have had half of its members not complete Dave Misson's fitness program before pre-season commenced. A group whose members have spoken alomst openly about not buying in to the new coach's plans for part if not all of the season.

Be proud Hardnut. The group has done a wonderful job under adversity.

You are entitled to your view timD, but I have seen good coaches work miracles with average playing groups - IMO you, like so many others, are taking the easy way out. You are also wasting your time on personal attacks on me.

Forgetting all that, I hope all is well with the youngest. Cheers.

  On 26/09/2012 at 08:08, dee-eee said:

Is it really only a couple of years since we thrashed the Swannies by 73 points ( Roos greatest ever coaching loss ) and last season had that draw at the SCG in round one ? The 2012 contrast between the sides is breathtaking . At least West Coast and Adelaide have shown that sides CAN rebound quickly .

It was only one game. In short, it's dangerous to base such conclusions on limited, selective evidence.

I'd suggest you check out our other results over the past few years. Cop a tip, they're not particularly flattering.

Inductive reasoning's not particularly well respected in the intellectual world - but it does seem to be appealing to the masses. After all, most people thought the world was shaped like a dinner plate for many, many years. And most Europeans would've laughed out loud prior to 1788 if anyone suggested that not all swans were white.

Look at all of the evidence (ie, our results over the relevant period of time). We haven't slipped so quickly. We sucked.

How many ways and how many times do we have to go over this.

  On 26/09/2012 at 11:41, Ron Burgundy said:

It was only one game. In short, it's dangerous to base such conclusions on limited, selective evidence.

I'd suggest you check out our other results over the past few years. Cop a tip, they're not particularly flattering.

Inductive reasoning's not particularly well respected in the intellectual world - but it does seem to be appealing to the masses. After all, most people thought the world was shaped like a dinner plate for many, many years. And most Europeans would've laughed out loud prior to 1788 if anyone suggested that not all swans were white.

Look at all of the evidence (ie, our results over the relevant period of time). We haven't slipped so quickly. We sucked.

Agree Ron,

Even Essendon under Matthew Knights porked Ross Lyon's Saints a few times in 09/10 - a team that was a bee's diaphragm from back to back flags. The longer term results paint the true picture.

  On 26/09/2012 at 11:28, Hardnut said:

You are entitled to your view timD, but I have seen good coaches work miracles with average playing groups - IMO you, like so many others, are taking the easy way out. You are also wasting your time on personal attacks on me.

You will see it with the MFC over the next couple of seasons too with Neeld and his FD at the helm.

If Bailey and the previous FD had of stayed, do you seriously think the status quo would be better than it is?

  On 26/09/2012 at 11:48, Jimmi C said:

If you took that as a personal attack you should change your avatar unless 'Hardnut' is meant ironically? You're a bit more of a 'word that rhymes with loftlock' IMO. Apologies in advance if that hurts your feelings.

You need to read the original post with more insight Jimmi. You only need to read RobbieF's post to see what was really being raised, yet again. However, rest assured I never let any comments get to me personally - we are all MFC supporters here and I would definitely welcome more critical examination of the whole club in its future interest.

On another tack, out of interest, do you know what my pic is?

  On 26/09/2012 at 12:03, McQueen said:

You will see it with the MFC over the next couple of seasons too with Neeld and his FD at the helm.

If Bailey and the previous FD had of stayed, do you seriously think the status quo would be better than it is?

Why is there such an obsession with Neeld v Bailey? I certainly don't see it that way.

Richmond flattened Hawthorn this year, and it didn't mean they were anything more than a mid-table side. Good sides have horrible days, average sides have good days. Thankfully that day the two happened at the same time.

  On 26/09/2012 at 12:06, Hardnut said:

Why is there such an obsession with Neeld v Bailey? I certainly don't see it that way.

What obsession? I only asked a question... What is your opinion?

OP not comparing apples with apples. Simple as that.

We are what we are, that is a struggling list, poorly developed with limited FD resources (until this year). It will take more than just half a season to turn around the good ship MFC.

Yes, we have gone backwards this year, it's very apparent to any real supporter who's seen every game this year.

Let's accept it and look toward the future. I've been [censored] off enough during the season but now I've got next season in my sights.

I just look forward to the surprises and twists of 2013, and hopefully Neeld can prove himself as well as all our weak, belittled players.

Keep supporting the club and turn up to the matches because isn't it [censored] great to come and watch us play (especially at the [censored] MCG)

West Coast has 12 'first 22' players aged 25 or over, and that is not counting injured guys like LeCras. 12 experienced players who played at least most of the season, quite a few of whom were there for the last premiership and it includes a sixth-time and a fourth-time All-Australian.

Adelaide's count of 25-and-over players who played all or close to all of the season is 11, and included gun mids, key forwards,

Melbourne had ONE guy over 25 play all games, thank you Jared Rivers, and only a few get close to a full season, like Syliva (17), Dunn (18), Magner (17) and MacDonald (19). None of those were exactly tearing the field apart.

So alas, any comparison with the Eagles or the Crows is not really going to work. Their story is of a season or two wih injuries, disruption and poor form, and then regaining the mature players and refreshing their form for another crack, backed by a few good draft selections to fill out the team. Those clubs have not been through a rebuild.

Imagine a scenario where, for Melbourne in about 2009, each of Yze, Robertson, Neitz, Brown, White, McDonald, Green, Bruce, Johnstone and Whelan had all had a completely uninjured season and had a solid run of good form.

I guess there's two points I'm making -

First, we are rebuilding from as 'scratch' as it gets and there is no real comparison with clubs like West Coast or Adelaide, or even Hawthorn, I would say.

Second, once you get a solid core of high-quality mature players into your team, you can stay competitive for a long, long time, and a good run with injury and one 'bonus' year of good drafting (picking up a star like Hawthorn did with Rioli or Geelong did with Selwood) and you can push up to the next level and be a true champion team.

  On 26/09/2012 at 12:44, Little Goffy said:

West Coast has 12 'first 22' players aged 25 or over, and that is not counting injured guys like LeCras. 12 experienced players who played at least most of the season, quite a few of whom were there for the last premiership and it includes a sixth-time and a fourth-time All-Australian.

Adelaide's count of 25-and-over players who played all or close to all of the season is 11, and included gun mids, key forwards,

Melbourne had ONE guy over 25 play all games, thank you Jared Rivers, and only a few get close to a full season, like Syliva (17), Dunn (18), Magner (17) and MacDonald (19). None of those were exactly tearing the field apart.

So alas, any comparison with the Eagles or the Crows is not really going to work. Their story is of a season or two wih injuries, disruption and poor form, and then regaining the mature players and refreshing their form for another crack, backed by a few good draft selections to fill out the team. Those clubs have not been through a rebuild.

Imagine a scenario where, for Melbourne in about 2009, each of Yze, Robertson, Neitz, Brown, White, McDonald, Green, Bruce, Johnstone and Whelan had all had a completely uninjured season and had a solid run of good form.

I guess there's two points I'm making -

First, we are rebuilding from as 'scratch' as it gets and there is no real comparison with clubs like West Coast or Adelaide, or even Hawthorn, I would say.

Second, once you get a solid core of high-quality mature players into your team, you can stay competitive for a long, long time, and a good run with injury and one 'bonus' year of good drafting (picking up a star like Hawthorn did with Rioli or Geelong did with Selwood) and you can push up to the next level and be a true champion team.

When a team doesn't perform well it's always "Too young" or "Too old". When the Eagles got the spoon 2 years ago I'm sure they were labelled old but now they're experienced. I think age is very over-analysed in footy. Our club's had a culture of ganging up on the oldies such as the names you mentioned, and the fact that some of these players are extremely talented has been overlooked because of a "youth policy". Sometimes I stare at the field and wish I was seeing a 2010 Cameron Bruce, or a 2010 James McDonald, or even a 2008 Adem Yze

Nope Neeld Aniher. It seems to me Little Goffy was simply basing his analysis on facts - material facts.

I don't think anyone - even the critics - can credibly assert our list is "too old".

  On 26/09/2012 at 12:41, Neeld Aniher said:

Yes, we have gone backwards this year, it's very apparent to any real supporter who's seen every game this year.

Let's accept it and look toward the future. I've been [censored] off enough during the season but now I've got next season in my sights.

I just look forward to the surprises and twists of 2013, and hopefully Neeld can prove himself as well as all our weak, belittled players.

Keep supporting the club and turn up to the matches because isn't it [censored] great to come and watch us play (especially at the [censored] MCG)

Not to this supporter who has. I have just watched them all again (a glutton for punishment) and we actually improved markedly over the year. We would have improved even further without the wretched run of injuries.

I think future improvement will be exponential.

I am buckled in for the ride.

  On 26/09/2012 at 12:26, McQueen said:

What obsession? I only asked a question... What is your opinion?

D/L has had a year of posters defending Neeld by blaming Bailey and the players. I don't believe either N or B were suitable choices as senior coaches and have said so before. I also believe we are in a worse state now than we were a year ago on a player and supporter basis, and as a fractured club in no small part due to Neeld. The good part is that at least our finances seem OK.

We have been over this its simple. Bailey, Daniher, Schwabb, Morton, Culture, Morton, Schwabb, Football department are to blame. GEEEEEZZ!!!!!!!

  On 26/09/2012 at 21:48, Hardnut said:

and as a fractured club in no small part due to Neeld.

Murderous Demonland threads do not a fractured club make.

  On 26/09/2012 at 22:05, Jonesbag said:

We have been over this its simple. Bailey, Daniher, Schwabb, Morton, Culture, Morton, Schwabb, Football department are to blame. GEEEEEZZ!!!!!!!

Needs more Watts-bashing.