A simple thing. If we improve more than the teams above us by enough then we move upthe rankings. Where is the improvement going to come from? Will it be internal development and natural improvement of individual players on the list? Will it be because we have brought better players on to the list? Will it be because of the development and understanding of the 'Game Plan'?

I am of the opinion that we have a lot of upside with the present list we have with a few exceptions and that this is where the main development/improvement will come from.

I have had a look at the list and have graded them on potential improvement.

Gawn - If he can get over his injury and stay fit for a while I think he will offer something for us in 2-3 years time. Will not add a lot next year.

Spencer - Has surprised with what he has shown in the last few games. if he can build on that he will give us improvement next year.

Fitzpatrick - Needs a big pre-season to build up a bit. Will not add to overall improvement next year unless he surprises.

Clarke - Missed him later half of the season and if he get a full season out of him it will be a significant improvement.

Martin - He is developing well and he give us a little more next season.

Jamar - If we get him on the ground and playing to reasonable standard we will get improvement.

Watts - Was getting better with each game played. Will give us improvement next year.

Sellar - What you see is what you get I believe. Will give us coverage and depth.

Cook - See Fitzpatrick.

T. McDonald - I see a big upside to this kid. Like the way he plays and will add to the overall improvement to the team next year.

Frawley - Will get better each year.

Rivers - What you see is what you will get next year.

Morton - Don't believe he will improve. Would like to see it, he has all the tools, but I have my doubts.

Dunn - Has been a victim of the lack of development at the club for junior players in the immediate past. May improve if the team around him lifts.

Davis - No opinion.

Bate - A bit like Dunn. Will only improve in a better team.

Garland - Should improve. Will he?

Howe - Good player but IMO needs proper direction and will add a lot to a properly structured team. Additional impact next year? or maybe the year after?

Gysberts - Has upside but will have limited additrional improvement next year. Expect a bit more from him the season after.

MacDonald - What you see is what you get.

Jurrah - Anything we get out of him next year will be an improvement. If he is on the list I would expect a big season from him.

Taggart - Big upside to him if he takes the proper steps.

Grimes - Would think he will contribute more next season than this season.

Tynan - No opinion.

Sylvia - I think he is responding to Neeld's coaching and will add a greater degree of comsistancy to his game.

MacKenzie - Is effective at what he does and I believe he will continue.

Trengove - See Grimes

Strauss - Will add to the improvement next year. lots of upside.

Petterd - Don't think he will improve to be honest.

Green - Thanks for the memories.

Blease - Will add a lot to us over the season next year.

Bail - What you see is what you get.

Moloney - Had a bad year and does not seem to have adjusted to the new coaching. if he is on the list next year and he improves he will give us a lift. Do not expect to see him in the R&B.

Bartram - Do not know that we will see him running around next year. Hope the injury responds.

Tapscott - Natural development plus a step up? I hope so.

Jones - Best season so far and would love to see him step it up a bit more.

Jetta - Do not see much improvement next year to be honest.

Bennell - As with Jetta

Davey - Love to him improve on this season...needs to....

Of the list I can see these players being looked at as possible moves, either de-listed or traded.

Green - retired

Jurrah - So many question marks.

Bartram - Possible move to Rookie list with his injury.

Moloney - Trade?

Dunn - Trade?

Bate - Trade?

Davis - ?

Bennell - ?

Morton - ?

Sellar - ?

I would not be surprised if there are a couple of our better players or players with clear potential being offered up at the trade table so we can get what we want to cover a few weaknesses. Gysberts? Taggart? Tapscott?

Aside from the development of players I can see a general improvement with the game plan being a season older and another pre-season to work on it.

These two elements are critical to our improvement relative to the other clubs. withour these we can import all the class we like but it will not give us the improvemtn we crave.

Well, a long post and I am sure there are a lot that will disagree and have their own ideas.

We all have opinions and this is mine.

*Yawn*

.....Another plainly obvious run through the list thread.

I wish Gysberts was fitter already, because i'd love to see him on a program that focused more on weights than running. Hopefully they put Watts on a program along those lines - whether he plays forward or back, he needs more size and strength (has said this himself).

*Yawn*

.....Another plainly obvious run through the list thread.

Agree Moonshadow

I hope that increased strength, general fitness and endurance will result in significant improvement, together with greater familiarity with the game plan.

I remember seeing this exact thread at this time 6 years ago. We have actually gone backwards since then. How's this for a thought to keep you awake tonight - when we run out for round 1 next year we may well be missing Davey, Moloney, Bate, Jurrah and Bartram - for different reasons of course. Whatever way you look at it, this group of players were amongst our strongest, and that's when we were finishing 12th-14th. Now you take out their experience and importance, what sort of side do we have left - absolutely nothing, thats what. Who are our senior stalwarts now? Rivers, Jamar and Sylvia - fantastic group for the developing group to model themselves on. We are in some serious shiz if you ask me

Impossible to comment upon until we see the results of delistings, trades, drafts.

I remember seeing this exact thread at this time 6 years ago. We have actually gone backwards since then. How's this for a thought to keep you awake tonight - when we run out for round 1 next year we may well be missing Davey, Moloney, Bate, Jurrah and Bartram - for different reasons of course. Whatever way you look at it, this group of players were amongst our strongest, and that's when we were finishing 12th-14th. Now you take out their experience and importance, what sort of side do we have left - absolutely nothing, thats what. Who are our senior stalwarts now? Rivers, Jamar and Sylvia - fantastic group for the developing group to model themselves on. We are in some serious shiz if you ask me

North were in some serious shiz a few months ago. Then they acted quickly and chopped the head off.

I remember seeing this exact thread at this time 6 years ago. We have actually gone backwards since then. How's this for a thought to keep you awake tonight - when we run out for round 1 next year we may well be missing Davey, Moloney, Bate, Jurrah and Bartram - for different reasons of course. Whatever way you look at it, this group of players were amongst our strongest, and that's when we were finishing 12th-14th. Now you take out their experience and importance, what sort of side do we have left - absolutely nothing, thats what. Who are our senior stalwarts now? Rivers, Jamar and Sylvia - fantastic group for the developing group to model themselves on. We are in some serious shiz if you ask me

Will not keep me awake at night. we got very little from those 5 this year and do not expect that to change next season. the development/improvement has to come from others. I would not mind if some of our younger players modeled themselves on Rivers and/or Jamar. Sylvia is another matter.

A simple thing. If we improve more than the teams above us by enough then we move upthe rankings. Where is the improvement going to come from? Will it be internal development and natural improvement of individual players on the list? Will it be because we have brought better players on to the list? Will it be because of the development and understanding of the 'Game Plan'?

I am of the opinion that we have a lot of upside with the present list we have with a few exceptions and that this is where the main development/improvement will come from.

It should be going to come from all these. We have players on the list capable of taking the next step and making an impact in AFL and they just need to develop and understand the game plan and there are strong signs in recent weeks that this is happening

As for the players we may get in FA and the draft, as long as we choose smartly i feel we can move close to or better than we were last year and close to the finals finals the year after! GO DEES!!!

*Yawn*

.....Another plainly obvious run through the list thread.

Settle down - the guy has 6 posts. If it is some muppet that has been here for years go for it, but cut people a bit of slack.

Jack Viney?

CHF, how you can put a question mark anywhere near Howe's name is a beyond me.

Then you go on to state that Strauss has 'lots of upside'..

In case you haven't actually watched this year, Howe has easily been our best youngstar -

its actually got to the point where its embarrassing how much better than the others he has been,

thankfully of late Blease has came on.

I cannot say the same of James Stauss, who has played a whole 5 uninspiring games of football.

Im not sure I agree with all of your analysis and Id expect and from what has been indicated in the press releases from Melbourne FC website that we will lost 10-12. And I doubt any of the players we delist or trade will 'do better at other sides' at least at this point in their careers.

Not playing Morton seems odd in a way - we should have been fattening up the calf there...

1. Where do I think the improvement will come from in 2013:

Clark, Grimes, Trengove, Watts, Frawley and Blease. Id like to see another McDonald/Blease type improvement ofcourse from a younger player. I think Gysberts with fitness and a bit of muscle could have a big impact in 2013.

2. Which players should we be building our side around:

Clark, Grimes, Jones, Howe, McDonald, Frawley, Trengove, Blease and Jamar

3. Which players is it impossible to predict whether they will improve in 2013:

Many...

We have a list based on potential in many cases.

Big Maxie Gawn has to be a cult figure. That is the kind of players young kids will love. But so far he seems unfortunately injury prone

Settle down - the guy has 6 posts. If it is some muppet that has been here for years go for it, but cut people a bit of slack.

I have been here for years but have not posted much. I have posted more than half a dozen posts but it seems they were so long ago that they do not register.

I do not need any slack. If someone does not want another opinion, so be it.

CHF, how you can put a question mark anywhere near Howe's name is a beyond me.

Then you go on to state that Strauss has 'lots of upside'..

In case you haven't actually watched this year, Howe has easily been our best youngstar -

its actually got to the point where its embarrassing how much better than the others he has been,

thankfully of late Blease has came on.

I cannot say the same of James Stauss, who has played a whole 5 uninspiring games of football.

King, I agree with you re Howe. He has been fgreat for us and is an exciting player. the questionmark is in regard to how much more improvement there is in him.

Strauss has a lot of improvement in him.

this simply answered in one word.............skills

From the fact that we could not play this bad again.

Clark - he is an absolute star, and every game we play with him we play 50 times better than a game without him.

Watts - improved measurably this year, and will build on that next year. He's a good HB, and hopefully will strengthen his core and become even better.

Blease - we need a speedy crumbing forward, and in modern football that player has to be able to play midfield too. I see that in Blease. Needs to get fitter and gain more stamina, but that will come with more training. He can only get better

Trengove - can't play worse than this year. If it was the captaincy, then that hopefully will have settled. If it was OP, then hopefully that too will be gone. Either way, I think he can do a lot better, and hopefully he will

McDonald - already a gun, but with some stronger arms and legs, will only get better against the power forwards

Howe - can't kick a set shot to save his life; if he works on that over the summer, he'll be one of the competition's best mid-sized forwards

Having less has-beens/duds/won't-bes/those coming to the end in the side - less games played by Dunn, Bate, MacDonald, Moloney, Green, Morton and Bennell means more games in Strauss, Blease, Spencer (maybe), Gawn (hopefully) etc.

Neeld will have an idea after this year of what works and what doesn't, both on game day and during the week.

Neeld will have an idea after this year of what works and what doesn't, both on game day and during the week.

Not much has seemed to this year.

Not much has seemed to this year.

Well then he has a vast array of knowledge of what doesn't work! I guess by process of elimination we'll get there eventually haha

I think the only coaching move that really paid off this year was garland in the forward 50 against Essendon and perhaps getting Jack Watts in the back half to collect more possessions.

I think the only coaching move that really paid off this year was garland in the forward 50 against Essendon and perhaps getting Jack Watts in the back half to collect more possessions.

That doesn't mean Neeld hasn't learnt anything. He'll know a lot more about which players meet their pre-game targets and KPIs and which respond to instructions than we do.

That doesn't mean Neeld hasn't learnt anything. He'll know a lot more about which players meet their pre-game targets and KPIs and which respond to instructions than we do.

Good point.

There might be a lot of improvement from Neeld as well. Afteral,l he is on a steep learning curve as well. I would expect him to have a good close look at what he and the rest of the coaching panel have done this season and look at what they can do to improve.

One of the WA teams will take Morton for a second round pick hopefully because he's no bloody good to us.

Good point.

There might be a lot of improvement from Neeld as well. Afteral,l he is on a steep learning curve as well. I would expect him to have a good close look at what he and the rest of the coaching panel have done this season and look at what they can do to improve.

If we don't win at least 7-8 and show a bit more heart he should go although l think he's contracted for 2014.