Yes, he's seemingly agreeing with me, but doesn't even know it.

Sorry i misread your first comment, i'm sure you can forgive me for assuming you were another Toumpas basher, plenty of those around here.

Numbers!! Ollie averaged 19 per game on a full preseason with no injuries. Toump's last 6 games average was 16 disposals. Started from a long way back and came good the further the season went on. It's only pre season ffs. You show your ignorance and your complete and utter lack of footy nous, you need a mix of players JVF. Can't all be inside beasts. If you watch closely, you would see the Roos plan with inside mids Cross, Tyson, Jones and Vince etc fighting for ball and Toump playing high half forward then following packs and staying outside for handball gives and to block if ball comes out the back. Numbers are hard to get in our forward line at the moment moron. At least try to understand a game plan.

Yes Numbers!!!! you moron. Jimmy av 12 disposals a game with 0 goals. Wines av 19 disposals with 8 goals.

I know that it was their first year and Jim had hip surgery, but all I said was Toumpas needs to start racking up numbers.

Why we have him at half forward when we drafted him as a outside mid or wing I beyond me. It is because he isn't ready to play that position in the AFL yet so we put him on the half forward line.

Hey really....do we need a mix of players....well well you learn something new everyday genius.

Guarantee you Wines could play the high half forward role just as well as Toumpas and stay on the outside of packs.

It's about having an impact on games. It doesn't matter if you are an inside player or outside player. Being an outside player doesn't mean you can get less of the pill or lay less tackles or kick less goals. Being a role player doesn't mean you impact a game less.

Jack Trengove was a 'role' player last year. And guess what IT DIDN'T FKN WORK!!!

Does Ollie WInes play for us?

Does Ollie WInes play for us?

he can with the right trade deals in place.

I am guessing that by years end we shall have high numbers in the draft yet again.

Oliie will be joining the Dees at the end of this season,then you can all compare Ollie & Jimmy in the same team.

He's leaving Port and the Bombers & Blues are right into him,hopefully Jack can sway him.

Fact...or wishful thinking???

Toumpas has played one season in one of the worst midfields of all time under a rubbish coach with hips recovering from surgery. All of you judging his career over already must of only started watching footy in 2013. Far out.

.....but Ollie did far better, with which none will surely disagree (in a mature midfield, in a successful team, under a coach who appeared to have a clue).

But what absolutely nobody can answer, would Jimmy have done well in those circumstances, and more so how would Ollie have done being thrown to the wolves with only one top grade mid, a team with no plan, and under a coach who knew nothing and (it seems) couldn't communicate with his players???

Fruitless discussion full of hypotheticals.

Has there ever been such a long thread about a player who did not play for the Demons?

I posted earlier that this was pointless (and better to focus discussion on those players we actually do have) and someone replied that there was a point - it was a chance to 'vent'. Fair enough. But surely by now all those with volcanic feelings have vented.

^{And why not Sue, since obviously we picked correctly or is it incorrectly again, you fail to grasp the fact that we have been making shocking dumb recruiting decisions for EONS, perhaps the Jimmy Toumpas one is seen to be the last straw!}

^{Pick, draw blood, reach bone, let it hurt some more, ah "Pain" learn to love it!}

^{And why not Sue, since obviously we picked correctly or is it incorrectly again, you fail to grasp the fact that we have been making shocking dumb recruiting decisions for EONS, perhaps the Jimmy Toumpas one is seen to be the last straw!}

^{Pick, draw blood, reach bone, let it hurt some more, ah "Pain" learn to love it!}

the recruiters who chose Toumpas also managed, Terlich, Matt Jones, Geourgiou, Kent, they have hardley missed a beat so far, and Todd Viney was like Ollie Wines second father, but they also knew Jimmy extremely well from SA footy, there is no one more informed in Australia to make the decision between those two and they are backing Toumpas to become a better player than Wines

Wines was ready to go, victorian so no go home factor, hungry to play with his best mate, it all fitted that we took Wines but they still choose toumpas, hopefully Jimmy is good enough to show us why over time, right now he needs to get back to the VFL and remember what it's like to enjoy his footy and focus on developing for now

the recruiters who chose Toumpas also managed, Terlich, Matt Jones, Geourgiou, Kent, they have hardley missed a beat so far, and Todd Viney was like Ollie Wines second father, but they also knew Jimmy extremely well from SA footy, there is no one more informed in Australia to make the decision between those two and they are backing Toumpas to become a better player than Wines

Wines was ready to go, victorian so no go home factor, hungry to play with his best mate, it all fitted that we took Wines but they still choose toumpas, hopefully Jimmy is good enough to show us why over time, right now he needs to get back to the VFL and remember what it's like to enjoy his footy and focus on developing for now

Meanwhile Ollie Wines keeps chalking up BOG's against the competitioins best midfielders.

MFC supporters do a lot of waiting....

Meanwhile Ollie Wines keeps chalking up BOG's against the competitioins best midfielders.

MFC supporters do a lot of waiting....

we do, but that's the nature of the game i think, i probably would have taken Wines, i like the idea of Wines and Viney forming our engine room for the next 10 years, but that said i wasn't shocked and upset we went the other way, now i just hope we can develop Jimmy into an A grade mid

I'm looking forward to coming back to this thread in 3 years time.

By then, we'll see Jimmy getting plenty more of the ball, he'll be much more confident in himself and in his body as it will be bigger, stronger and harder. He'll be a very damaging outside player for us.

No [censored] Wines is ahead of him now. 186cm and already over 90kg 19 year old playing in a side full of confidence and with a super midfield.

See you in a few years.

The only advantage wines has is that he's built like Arni and therefore is obviously going to have more of an influence early on in comparison to an outside runner weighing in at under 80kg.

Toumpas is nothing like Morton for anyone concerned. Nothing like Morton.

I'm looking forward to coming back to this thread in 3 years time.

By then, we'll see Jimmy getting plenty more of the ball, he'll be much more confident in himself and in his body as it will be bigger, stronger and harder. He'll be a very damaging outside player for us.

No [censored] Wines is ahead of him now. 186cm and already over 90kg 19 year old playing in a side full of confidence and with a super midfield.

See you in a few years.

Wines could have won 2 Charlie Brownlows by then.

But people on here will still be saying

"Oh but he won't get any better"

that has to be THE most pathetic justification i have read on here for not picking a player.

Ollie Wines getting reguluar BOG's with his best mate jack would have been cool with me for the next 10 years!!

Wines could have won 2 Charlie Brownlows by then.

But people on here will still be saying

"Oh but he won't get any better"

that has to be THE most pathetic justification i have read on here for not picking a player.

Ollie Wines getting reguluar BOG's with his best mate jack would have been cool with me for the next 10 years!!

Yes, I can understand why you feel that way WYL, perhaps because we've been burnt in the past with similar drafts. We've opted for the outside mid rather than the bull.

I rate Ollie highly, but I think you should look at this case in a different light to some of the older ones. There's reason to. The only things in my mind that Toumpas needs to work on are building his body and working on his mental application.

Everything else is there for him. It's clear he is not an inside player. But when he builds his body, we'll see a more confident man. Which will also influence his mental application in a positive way.

Just wait this one out WYL.

Steve, which players do you refer to as ones where we have been burn't before?

Steve, which players do you refer to as ones where we have been burn't before?

Dustin Martin. There's 1

Why was Toumpas picked, knowing full well he needed hip surgery?

Why did Todd Viney not want Ollie at the club? Is it because (deep down) he didn't want Jack upstaged?

I would have loved hem both, Todd.

PF, there's no apostrophe in burnt - it's one word, not a contraction.

Steve, which players do you refer to as ones where we have been burn't before?

Morton and Gysberts are the two that came to mind.

Not that Gyaberts was seen as much of an outside player. He was more just an accumulator at 18's in my eyes. Same with Morton.

Neither of them had the class that Jimmy has.

Toumpas has elite foot skills and footy smarts. Morton and Gysberts didn't possess an elite attribute.

I'm looking forward to coming back to this thread in 3 years time.

By then, we'll see Jimmy getting plenty more of the ball, he'll be much more confident in himself and in his body as it will be bigger, stronger and harder. He'll be a very damaging outside player for us.

No [censored] Wines is ahead of him now. 186cm and already over 90kg 19 year old playing in a side full of confidence and with a super midfield.

See you in a few years.

Yes we have all the time in the world dont we Steve!

Why was Toumpas picked, knowing full well he needed hip surgery?

Why did Todd Viney not want Ollie at the club? Is it because (deep down) he didn't want Jack upstaged?

I would have loved hem both, Todd.

PF, there's no apostrophe in burnt - it's one word, not a contraction.

Another great question Jumbo ! Gee you would hate to think that Todd would do that! I wonder given the nepotistic aspect of it though the question is worth wondering! I wonder exactly how much influence Todd had over this decision to not draft Wines?

Burnt ?yep have been many times!

Yes we have all the time in the world dont we Steve!

To wait for a young kid to build his confidence and body in order for him to play at the best of his ability?

Yes, we do jackaub.

I'm looking forward to coming back to this thread in 3 years time.

By then, we'll see Jimmy getting plenty more of the ball, he'll be much more confident in himself and in his body as it will be bigger, stronger and harder. He'll be a very damaging outside player for us.

No [censored] Wines is ahead of him now. 186cm and already over 90kg 19 year old playing in a side full of confidence and with a super midfield.

See you in a few years.

I thought you would have a better grasp of this.

You're underestimating a player's natural competitiveness. It's impossible to manufacture. It's not just Wines' size, which obviously helps, it's his manic appetite for the contest, which when combined with his physical attributes becomes a wonderful package. Nat Fyfe has Wines mindset too, but without the body. Toumpas doesn't have the mindset and never will.

Hogan has it, Wines has it and it is a strength that seemingly gets overlooked by supporters.

Btw, this isn't to say that Toumpas won't become a valuable mid, perhaps in the mould of a Montagna if we're lucky, but there aren't any guarantees. We already know that Wines will be a super player and competitive midfield beast for a decade.

It WAS a mistake.

Yes, I can understand why you feel that way WYL, perhaps because we've been burnt in the past with similar drafts. We've opted for the outside mid rather than the bull.

I rate Ollie highly, but I think you should look at this case in a different light to some of the older ones. There's reason to. The only things in my mind that Toumpas needs to work on are building his body and working on his mental application.

Everything else is there for him. It's clear he is not an inside player. But when he builds his body, we'll see a more confident man. Which will also influence his mental application in a positive way.

Just wait this one out WYL.

Essentially I dont disagree with any of this but we have perennially gone for the bird in the bush not the (and still only the one not two as is deemed the trade off )

We have as a club to me seemingly played cute with picks instead of effectively applying a KISS strategy.

We havent done all that well.. Viney was a blind Freddie slam dunk.....but until this year we havent had a brilliant success rate with picks

The essence of much of the angst in all of this is despite what so me see as a natural coursing of developing theree are players distinctly underperforming....and when this is proposed there are many instant retaliations of ....yeah , but !!!

The thing is it matters not how many of these 'buts' there are or how many even hold water the original grievance still sticks, there are players grossly underachieving.

this has to stop

Why was Toumpas picked, knowing full well he needed hip surgery?

Why did Todd Viney not want Ollie at the club? Is it because (deep down) he didn't want Jack upstaged?

I would have loved hem both, Todd.

PF, there's no apostrophe in burnt - it's one word, not a contraction.

its a bloody good question isnt it