FMD now I've read it all.

We downhill skiied against weak teams and got absolutely pole axed by good opposition.

We got systematically dismantled by Collingwood, it was embarrassing

1, 8 and 6 ring any bells?

Well done mate.

Boy you have a short memory.

Dosnt a couple of ripper games against the pies ring any bells?

Well done mate.

Boy you have a short memory.

Better than fantasising and making up the past.

To illistrate my point, i remeber going to the rd2 game against Hawthorn when we were smashed in the first quarter. Then, in the second quarter, we blitzed them with the most exciting footy I have seen us play. Then we got belted by them in the last 2 quarters.

What I learnt from that game is that our attacking footy is a good as the Hawks attacking footy, however, we needed a defensive structure.

Now, what you people are trying to tell me is that we have a shite side.

I still believe our attacking footy was as good as anyone in the league, because I saw it with my own eyes on many many occasions between 2010 and 2011.

Our error is that we have killed our offensive flair. Now we a just stagnant rot. Don't blame the players, blame the gameplan.

Hmmm ok, so you are saying our best football saw us win 1 out of 4 quarters, the other three were quarters we got smashed.

You say yourself we need a defensive game but somehow think that doesn't come at a cost of being accountable? don't you think that will 'kill' our offensive flair somewhat?

I do blame the gameplan (of Bailey's) for creating a bunch of unaccountable players that Neeld it struggling to turn into a cohesive unit!

Interesting times ahead.

Not while you keep posting.

do you coach the cattle you have (which clearly he hasn't done this year)

This makes no sense to me. What makes you say he clearly hasn't coached 'the cattle' he has.

Well done mate.

Boy you have a short memory.

Dosnt a couple of ripper games against the pies ring any bells?

In 2009 we got up for the games against Collingwood, but still came up short

2010 was proof that Bailey was not going to succeed.

Collingwood destroyed us that day. It was embarrassing how clinically they tore us apart.

2009 means nothing.

Who of note did we beat in 2011 that made us match it with the best? Seriously?

Every half decent team absolutely trounced us

Your illustration is poor and mirage. Here are some facts.

Round: 2 Venue: M.C.G. Date: Sun, 03-Apr-2011 4:40 PM Attendance: 49,905 Hawthorn 2.8.20 3.13.31 11.24.90 16.26.122 Melbourne 3.1.19 8.2.50 9.3.57 12.5.77 HW by 1 ME by 19 HW by 33 HW by 45

In that game, while we lead on the scoreboard we were smashed by every statistical metric on the ground. The Hawks could not convert their boundless opportunities in the first 3 quarters. If ever a scoreboard lied about a game at 1/2 time it was here. I cant believe you could be sucked by the scoreboard and miss the mood of the game so comprehensively. You must have learnt things from looking at a different game. This was a rout of MFC. We had lady luck in the first half with ominous storm clouds at half time.

At the moment, Neelds game plan looks terrible. He has a year to fix it. But dont use this to fabricate a disposition of Bailey that is completely in conflict with reality.

Actually, the Demons ripped them apart in the second quarter. Then we got polaxed.

Still, we had enough good players to rip them apart for one quarter at least.

But still, we ripped gold coast and GWS apart for a quarter each this year. Wohoooo.

Seriously, you people have rocks in your head, either that or the pied piper is still playing his merry little tunes.

Well done mate.

Boy you have a short memory.

Dosnt a couple of ripper games against the pies ring any bells?

2011 we got flogged by the pies 129 to 41.

2010 we had a couple of good games against Collingwood thats true, but following it up with an 88 point smashing last year wipes that away pretty bloody quickly.

Last year other than GC I think we had the highest losing margin of all teams in the competition. It was offset by some large wins, but the media slagged us off (well before 186) about how we had no gameplan at all, and we looked good against teams that didn't bother to play accountable football, but those that did smashed us constantly.

There is no baby.

Classic. I only get the occasional flash of TP's brilliance (as he/she is my sole block) but like watching a slow motion car crash i sometimes can't help reading bits that are quoted.

If these quotes were put together in the fashion of one those mid seventies 'best of (insert year, band or genre)' cheapo records (think K-Tel) with lurid cover art, the title would "Best of the Trolls"

By the way if you were to want to look up the phrase 'don't throw the baby out with the bath water' where would you look? Bartlett's book of quotes perhaps?. I wonder if he has a quote on trolls?

Actually, the Demons ripped them apart in the second quarter. Then we got polaxed.

Still, we had enough good players to rip them apart for one quarter at least.

But still, we ripped gold coast and GWS apart for a quarter each this year. Wohoooo.

Seriously, you people have rocks in your head, either that or the pied piper is still playing his tunes.

I would hardly call it ripping them apart. We kicked straighter. And once they probably copped an absolute spray for being behind melbourne at half time, they flicked the switch and smashed us. And badly.

That 3rd quarter was one of the worst quarters of football I have ever seen. It was dumb football of the highest order.

They kept kicking points, we kept kicking out to Jamar just outside 50 near the boundary, they triple teamed him, went inside 50 for another point, only for it to be repeated.

You are the one with rocks in your head if you think that last year was "good football" matching it with the best

We were 1 way runners, who were smashed by half decent teams, beat up on weak teams and still only then scrapped home against some of them

If you can't see massive changes were needed, you need your head read

Actually, the Demons ripped them apart in the second quarter. Then we got polaxed.

Still, we had enough good players to rip them apart for one quarter at least.

Seriously, you people have rocks in your head, either that or the pied piper is still playing his merry little tunes.

Oh come on seriously?

http://www.afl.com.a...64/default.aspx

Hawks outscored us 16 scoring shots to 10 in the first half, we were smashed in the first qtr, accurate in the second qtr and humiliated in the second half. The match review isn't telling porkies. We got smashed by 45 points and should have lost by more. None of my Hawks mates were concerned that they were trailing at half time.

If you wanted to prove your point about how we were going last year, this would have to be the worst example game you could have used to support your argument.

I can't stand this - that game saw us allow 8 goals 11 in the third term, but the 'true' sign was the 5 goals 1 in the second?!

FFS. We were slaughtered by all who matter in 2011 and all those that rate this list call on are the two Collingwood games and the Sydney game.

We need talent and experience and all the whingeing about those three games (plus any random quarter...) is going to keep us from trying to get that talent and experience on our list.

Actually, the Demons ripped them apart in the second quarter. Then we got polaxed.

Still, we had enough good players to rip them apart for one quarter at least.

But still, we ripped gold coast and GWS apart for a quarter each this year. Wohoooo.

Seriously, you people have rocks in your head, either that or the pied piper is still playing his merry little tunes.

You should stop listening to the pied piper.

The only massive changes I would implement are the ones really required to change the culture of the club, and that is not from the players but from the brains trust including board members.

Anyways, we are locked in with Neeld until 2014. lets see how he goes. I just hope he dosnt sack too many loyal players, and turn us into a mercinary club.

This makes no sense to me. What makes you say he clearly hasn't coached 'the cattle' he has.

A coach has essentially two choices. He can either try to coach the group he has at his disposal - that is their strengths and weaknesses. ie: I have a team of tall players therefore I will devise a game plan around that.

OR he can try to teach a game plan to a group that doesn't have the skill to carry it out. ie: we need to run and spread and we need hard bodies that won't get pushed off the ball in a contested situation.

Neeld has tried to teach a game plan to a group not up to the task of carrying it out. He obviously believes his game plan is the way to go. And if the article is true will try to turn the list over to get the cattle to carry out his game plan.

Actually, the Demons ripped them apart in the second quarter. Then we got polaxed.

Still, we had enough good players to rip them apart for one quarter at least.

But still, we ripped gold coast and GWS apart for a quarter each this year. Wohoooo.

Seriously, you people have rocks in your head, either that or the pied piper is still playing his merry little tunes.

i have heard too many commentators who know footy (malthouse being one) say that when the bailey game plan worked it looked great but you would never win a premiership playing that game plan. Neeld has had to start from scatch. he has implemented structures bit by bit through the season as lumping all of it on them at once wouldnt work.

Defence is paramount

this has to be taught 1st before attack can even come in to the equation

And we are so far behind the 8 ball with attack it's clearly been the sole focus of the season.

A team like North are an example of this. Spent the last 2 years defending, and now they are successfully implementing attack into their game

To continue on the Bailey path, we would've won 8 odd games a year, and never been a premiership threat

The MFC

2007 - 2012

31 wins - 97 losses

Common denominator - A host of players who ... Are. Not. Up. To. It.

Your illustration is poor and mirage. Here are some facts.

Round: 2 Venue: M.C.G. Date: Sun, 03-Apr-2011 4:40 PM Attendance: 49,905 Hawthorn 2.8.20 3.13.31 11.24.90 16.26.122 Melbourne 3.1.19 8.2.50 9.3.57 12.5.77 HW by 1 ME by 19 HW by 33 HW by 45

In that game, while we lead on the scoreboard we were smashed by every statistical metric on the ground. The Hawks could not convert their boundless opportunities in the first 3 quarters. If ever a scoreboard lied about a game at 1/2 time it was here. I cant believe you could be sucked by the scoreboard and miss the mood of the game so comprehensively. You must have learnt things from looking at a different game. This was a rout of MFC. We had lady luck in the first half with ominous storm clouds at half time.

At the moment, Neelds game plan looks terrible. He has a year to fix it. But dont use this to fabricate a disposition of Bailey that is completely in conflict with reality.

Thank you for saving me the time of writing the exact same response.

To illistrate my point, i remeber going to the rd2 game against Hawthorn when we were smashed in the first quarter. Then, in the second quarter, we blitzed them with the most exciting footy I have seen us play. Then we got belted by them in the last 2 quarters.

What I learnt from that game is that our attacking footy is a good as the Hawks attacking footy, however, we needed a defensive structure.

Now, what you people are trying to tell me is that we have a shite side.

I still believe our attacking footy was as good as anyone in the league, because I saw it with my own eyes on many many occasions between 2010 and 2011.

Our error is that we have killed our offensive flair. Now we a just stagnant rot. Don't blame the players, blame the gameplan.

No we have to many down-hill skiers who, when challenged, don't have the courage, determination, will, etc to do something about it. This is what we need to fix. Nothing to do with Neeld. He wasn't there last year. We've seen the same tendencies this year against the Swans for example. When the going gets tough, too many of ours stop doing what's required. If you're happy to have a good quarter every now and then and beat a few mediocre teams each year and finish with the also rans then fine, we'll keep sacking coaches until we find one you like. One who will allow the team to play their own game regardless of team rules, game plan etc. I'm not sure I can keep arguing with you. It's like trying to teach my dog to speak Chinese. I'm never gonna win.

Having heard Greeny make the point about player 'buy in' several times in his retirement speech, makes me wonder who on that list has / has not shown that they are prepared to 'buy in' to the Neeld way.

All due respect to Greeny, I don't think he's the smartest guy when a microphone is put under his nose, and all he seems to do is "the right thing" as he regurgitates what the coaches say and the company line.

I'm sure they frequently preach that the gameplan and structures require 100% buy-in (as that is the truth).

He hears it, he's a good company man and repeats what he believes will bring success.

Because the coaches have told him so.

There may be players not buying in, but they will be the ones who are not playing.

Petterd?

But, we might be able to buy our way out of it. Good luck.

As for the players not having a say, Look at Geelong.

Bailey molded his coaching philosophy on Bomber Thompson. He believed that the players should not be forced into the game plan, but they should will themselves into the game plan. Ofcourse it took a bit longer than traditional methods, but the result was that the players, once self-driven, started playing for each other, and looked dynamic.

Neeld on the other hand, is acting like a new king who has been given absolute authority to wield his power over a group of people that he has no faith in, and if the players are not buying into his methods, he just hires mercinaries to do the job.

I think this strategy stinks.

It is cold, it is spiritless, it is demoralising.

The only massive changes I would implement are the ones really required to change the culture of the club, and that is not from the players but from the brains trust including board members.

Ahh, no - a clubs culture is dictated by its senior players.

We were shite under Bailey and we are shite now but 10 or 12 new players could really help.

As usual ,we have no luck with injuries ,tribunals and umpires but that is a given.

I should be more excited about next year more than any of the past five.

On that list ,Blease ,Gysberts and Jurrah need to be retained .

Everyone seems to be posting on the assumption that the media article is correct

This is amusing because normally 'landers poo-hah media articles on the mfc as being speculative and mischievous

Until I see some confirmation from the club i'll be taking this article with a grain of salt

Like the media speculation that we are very interested in signing Cloke don't believe everything that you read in the media.