Would take Toumpas over Hogan is he falls through to pick 3. Wouldn't mind trading pick 4 but then again keeping pick 4 would make me just as happy.

Would take Toumpas over Hogan is he falls through to pick 3. Wouldn't mind trading pick 4 but then again keeping pick 4 would make me just as happy.

You won't now who is left at 3 before draft day obviously.

If the FD want to ensure we get a 10 year FF, I am ok with that.

3 and 13 is way overs for Hogan, we got a ready made version in Clark for pick 12 last year.

Please just draft Stringer and Garlett with those picks as they will have a much bigger impact. Or even pick 3 for Tippet and 13 for Garlett I would prefer over this...

3 and 13 is way overs for Hogan, we got a ready made version in Clark for pick 12 last year.

Please just draft Stringer and Garlett with those picks as they will have a much bigger impact. Or even pick 3 for Tippet and 13 for Garlett I would prefer over this...

We get it.

I don't think the FD thinks the same.

No to Hogan due to need and also was unimpressed by him.

How do you rate yourself as a judge, Red. : )

How do you rate yourself as a judge, Red. : )

Ease up BH. Yes he impressed on friday night but let not get ahead of ourselfs by bumping up a thread from a little glimpse we saw. Still has along way to go. Alot of things can change from here, wait till next year when we can start judging him properly.

A very good talent though.

Ease up BH. Yes he impressed on friday night but let not get ahead of ourselfs by bumping up a thread from a little glimpse we saw. Still has along way to go. Alot of things can change from here, wait till next year when we can start judging him properly.

A very good talent though.

Mate, I judged him the first time I saw him. I won't be changing my opinion now, or ever. You, of course, can please yourself.

Btw, it was a tongue in cheek bump. But having seen your contributions on the thread I understand your sensitivity.

Like i said very good talent and i was a bit iffy when we recruited him but friday night changed my opinion. I cant get to training like you do so friday night was a first glimpse. Alot to get excited about BUT thats one game and lets not burden him with alot of expectaions like we have with in the past only to be let down. I cant wait till next year though as i see him contributing straight away.

I remember tom hawkins kicked 4 goals in just his 2nd game which was against us on Nathan Carroll and experts were already saying he will be just as good as Tony Lockett.. then went to [censored] after that. Only got going on that Grand Final day. Not saying Hogan will do the same but like i said alot could change, going home, taking a massive multi millionair offer from other clubs who knows? But so far alot to like and im looking forward to him just developing his game and weakness for casey this year.

Mate, I judged him the first time I saw him. I won't be changing my opinion now, or ever. You, of course, can please yourself.

Btw, it was a tongue in cheek bump. But having seen your contributions on the thread I understand your sensitivity.

Do you take grumpy pills every morning?????

How do you rate yourself as a judge, Red. : )

Foot currently in mouth and happy to leave it in there for the next 10-12 years. However the second part still applies, even with the addition of Viney and Toumpas we are short class mids and to get him we have potentially given up one. I will take an A grade midfield with a B Grade forward line over the opposite which may still be our position.

Ha ha Humble pie. Its a beauty isn't it??

I always thought we would get the deal done...

Get involved in the MD and Viney is in the 2nd round.

Well done to the club for getting that done.

Like i said very good talent and i was a bit iffy when we recruited him but friday night changed my opinion. I cant get to training like you do so friday night was a first glimpse. Alot to get excited about BUT thats one game and lets not burden him with alot of expectaions like we have with in the past only to be let down. I cant wait till next year though as i see him contributing straight away.

I remember tom hawkins kicked 4 goals in just his 2nd game which was against us on Nathan Carroll and experts were already saying he will be just as good as Tony Lockett.. then went to [censored] after that. Only got going on that Grand Final day. Not saying Hogan will do the same but like i said alot could change, going home, taking a massive multi millionair offer from other clubs who knows? But so far alot to like and im looking forward to him just developing his game and weakness for casey this year.

I wouldn't complain if that was his contribution with the same impact in our next GF

Foot currently in mouth and happy to leave it in there for the next 10-12 years. However the second part still applies, even with the addition of Viney and Toumpas we are short class mids and to get him we have potentially given up one. I will take an A grade midfield with a B Grade forward line over the opposite which may still be our position.

Our midfield isn't going to be B Grade in a few years time with the players we already have. We will still probably have top 5 draft picks for the next two drafts so plenty of opportunity to pick up some more A grade mids. Key Position players are a rarity. i'd take one as good as Hogan over any mid any day of the week. It's very evident over the past 7 or so GF's that if you don't have the forwards to kick goals when you get the opportunity you don't win. Doesn't matter how good or bad your midfield is.

Our midfield isn't going to be B Grade in a few years time with the players we already have. We will still probably have top 5 draft picks for the next two drafts so plenty of opportunity to pick up some more A grade mids. Key Position players are a rarity. i'd take one as good as Hogan over any mid any day of the week. It's very evident over the past 7 or so GF's that if you don't have the forwards to kick goals when you get the opportunity you don't win. Doesn't matter how good or bad your midfield is.

Wrong take a look at sydney last year. Their highest goal kickers were Kearin, josh kennedy, Nick Malceski, Jarred Mcveigh and Jarryd Morton. All kicked 2 goals each. Only morton is a forward. Their two key forwards on the day were Sam Reid and LRT. Both only kicked one each.

Just shows the game is won in the midfield.

Our midfield isn't going to be B Grade in a few years time with the players we already have. We will still probably have top 5 draft picks for the next two drafts so plenty of opportunity to pick up some more A grade mids. Key Position players are a rarity. i'd take one as good as Hogan over any mid any day of the week. It's very evident over the past 7 or so GF's that if you don't have the forwards to kick goals when you get the opportunity you don't win. Doesn't matter how good or bad your midfield is.

Wrong take a look at sydney last year. Their highest goal kickers were Kearin, josh kennedy, Nick Malceski, Jarred Mcveigh and Jarryd Morton. All kicked 2 goals each. Only morton is a forward. Their two key forwards on the day were Sam Reid and LRT. Both only kicked one each.

Just shows the game is won in the midfield.

Balance.

Wrong take a look at sydney last year. Their highest goal kickers were Kearin, josh kennedy, Nick Malceski, Jarred Mcveigh and Jarryd Morton. All kicked 2 goals each. Only morton is a forward. Their two key forwards on the day were Sam Reid and LRT. Both only kicked one each.

Just shows the game is won in the midfield.

Goal kicking mids are worth their weight in gold, but star key forwards even more-so. Why do you think Sydney are paying Tippett a poultice ? And he's not even a star. You can build an entire forward-line and even a game-plan around a star key forward. The MFC knew what it was doing and knows what it's got on its hands with Hogan.

The best key forwards of all time have nearly always played in premiership teams. McKenna and Lockett are about the only two off the top of my head that haven't.

Goal kicking mids are worth their weight in gold, but star key forwards even more-so. Why do you think Sydney are paying Tippett a poultice ? And he's not even a star. You can build an entire forward-line and even a game-plan around a star key forward. The MFC knew what it was doing and knows what it's got on its hands with Hogan.

The best key forwards of all time have nearly always played in premiership teams. McKenna and Lockett are about the only two off the top of my head that haven't.

Thus Neeld's comment when Hogan was drafted that he was a player you could build a team around.

Elite mids and goal kicking mids are worth their weight in gold but have a look how many of them there are in each year's draft and how many there are in the league compared to elite key position players like Hogan. Say no more.

Edited February 25, 201312 yr by It's Time

Wrong take a look at sydney last year. Their highest goal kickers were Kearin, josh kennedy, Nick Malceski, Jarred Mcveigh and Jarryd Morton. All kicked 2 goals each. Only morton is a forward. Their two key forwards on the day were Sam Reid and LRT. Both only kicked one each.

Just shows the game is won in the midfield.

Wrong back at you. If Buddy hadn't missed 3 of those very gettable goals the Hawks would have won. He had an off day. Just like Sydney in '06 when Hall had an off day and missed a couple of sitters. They both were unstoppable at the critical moments but missed their opportunities. If they had got them they would have been the difference. Hall was the difference in '05 when he had an on day and kicked 3 clutch goals and they won.

It took Hall probably 2-3 yrs to recover from his performance in '06 and he ended up changing clubs. Buddy's first game on the weekend apparently was a bit of a shocker. Wonder if the same thing will happen to him this year and he'll move on.

Wrong back at you. If Buddy hadn't missed 3 of those very gettable goals the Hawks would have won. He had an off day.

It's a good point you make. I don't know if we can put it all down to Franklin, but on key stats Hawthorn should not have lost the 2012 Grand Final.

Hawthorn had 23 more clearances, 26 more contested possessions and 18 more inside 50's. Sydney won due to their pressure, rebound, and some Hawthorn mistakes. Hawthorn will look back at this as the one that got away, much like Geelong in 2008.

Mate, I judged him the first time I saw him. I won't be changing my opinion now, or ever. You, of course, can please yourself.

But having seen your contributions on the thread I understand your sensitivity.

I went to the family day on Sunday and there was a fella with t shirt that screamed: DANGER: I'M AWESOME. YOU ARE NOT.

As he passed by I said to my son in a hushed reverential tone - 'there goes the great Ben-Hur of Demonland fame'

I went to the family day on Sunday and there was a fella with t shirt that screamed: DANGER: I'M AWESOME. YOU ARE NOT.

As he passed by I said to my son in a hushed reverential tone - 'there goes the great Ben-Hur of Demonland fame'

One difference. i don't need to say it.

Yeah, the family day was on Saturday..

I agree that gun power fowards are rare. Who do we rate out of hogan and danniher? Will be great viewing ovER the next ten years

Our midfield isn't going to be B Grade in a few years time with the players we already have. We will still probably have top 5 draft picks for the next two drafts so plenty of opportunity to pick up some more A grade mids. Key Position players are a rarity. i'd take one as good as Hogan over any mid any day of the week. It's very evident over the past 7 or so GF's that if you don't have the forwards to kick goals when you get the opportunity you don't win. Doesn't matter how good or bad your midfield is.

I want you to be right, believe me, but I think we're all a bit jaundiced from Sylvia and McLean through Scully and Trengove to Viney and Toumpas ...