I don't know how many are actually calling for a sacking, but I'm pretty worried by the fact we look just as disorganized after 15 rounds than we did at the start of the year.

Firstly I have seen at least 2 posters call for Neeld so far in this thread, and secondly I think we are definitely more organised than the early rounds, but our skills still let us down badly.

Surely they realise they are playing for their careers? ....and theyre still insipid.

i just think there will be a huge cleanout at the end of the year, with 6 or 7 players traded or delisted for some fresh talent.

Well, for me, the problem is our list and the lack of AFL quality footballers on it. Whether that is drafting, development, culture, I don't know, but it ain't Neeld's fault. If we are going to sack coaches who have half a bad season, we are going to be in a vicious cycle of sacking coaches every year. We have to select a man we think knows what it takes, and we back him in for the long haul.

It isn't really Neelds fault, just that we have hung onto some terrible players for too long. Those players need to be dumped and some of the younger kids get a go.

I find it hard not to growl when I see Jack watts jogging outside a contest looking disinterested in the 1st quarter.

Ridiculous. Put himself on the line - and copped it for his troubles - on more than one occasion.

Firstly I have seen at least 2 posters call for Neeld so far in this thread, and secondly I think we are definitely more organised than the early rounds, but our skills still let us down badly.

Too many people blaming just skills. The skills are bad sure, but they are made worse by us clumping together and not spreading, by players standing still after disposing of the ball, and players running the wrong way when leading or trying to get open.

And the worst one today, awareness. We were caught SO many times by a secondary tackler, and every time the player had NO IDEA it was coming.

So yes, the skills are bad, but they are worse due to the mess we are on the field and the pressure that creates.

There should be a lot of ashamed and embarrassed players after today's effort. The lack of capacity to execute basic skills under no pressure was alarming. Not just Bail ( though I think he was the worst) but throughout the team. The coaches have to take some significant amount of responsibility as well given that they've had some time now to have had some impact.

I was embarrassed that given the Richmond outs this week, we still never looked a chance.

Some credit to Richmond for the pressure they applied but that is the worst game of footbal I have seen this year easily (from two sides).

I'm a fan of the Neeld mantra but where is the defensive side that he was going to make a priority?

Why is Magner played as a defesnive forward week in week out?

Why did Neeld persist the whole game with Dunn back and Rivers forward?

Why are players making fundamental skill errors after 15 rounds of footy?

I find it very difficult to barrack for a team that plays Joel MacDonald.

I find it hard not to growl when I see Jack watts jogging outside a contest looking disinterested in the 1st quarter.

Wow.... Just wow....

Joel has been one of our best the last few weeks, might not be very skillful, but works his a$$ off and actually runs unlike most of our players.

As for your Watts comment.... What is this 2009?! Catch up mate.

On todays efforts i would drop Martin ahead of Spencer for Jamar

So you thought Spencer's 8 possies 11 hitouts and no goals were better than Martin's 18 possies 20 hitouts and 2 goals?

They are clearly playing practise matches for 2013.

Or does Dunn in the backline = tanking. He is cringeworthy. And Joel Mac......gawd.

Disgruntled, disappointed and disgusted. How anyone can find positives (or hope) in what I saw today amazes me. Our skills were as bad today as they were 5 years ago. These guys are paid big money as pro footballers, yet they cannot hit targets at 10 metres. As for that multiple handball fiasco that led to a Richmond goal - I am speechless.

This group are incapable of ever mounting a serious finals challenge.

Now for those who are saying we haven't improved, here are some stats compared the Round 3 game against Richmond. I am not saying today was great by any stretch, but to say we are still as unorganised as early in the season etc is ridiculous. This includes stats that we were constantly slammed for in the early part of the season e.g. uncontested possessions, inside 50s etc. (Excuse [censored] formatting)

Round 3 Today Difference

Score -59 -23 +36

Scoring Shots -14 -13 +1

Possessions -159 -61 +98

Uncont' Poss' -147 -41 +106

Inside 50s -35 -21 +14

We are still [censored], but we are improving under Neeld slowly. Let the bloke have his way with our list at the end of the next 2 seasons and see where we are. There is no use replacing a coach and going half arsed and giving him the flick after half a season.

Disgruntled, disappointed and disgusted. How anyone can find positives (or hope) in what I saw today amazes me. Our skills were as bad today as they were 5 years ago. These guys are paid big money as pro footballers, yet they cannot hit targets at 10 metres. As for that multiple handball fiasco that led to a Richmond goal - I am speechless.

This group are incapable of ever mounting a serious finals challenge.

That is exactly what i am trying to tell a guy in facebook right now,,,he tells me the team has improved!!!! A lot of our supporters are lost little sheep sadly.

For blokes who supposedly ooze leadership it is unfortunate that neither Grimes or Trengove can create any cohesion or calm decision making on the field. Clearly if there is to be joint captains either Jones or Clarke should be included.Will the coach have the strength of mind to demote one of the current pair.Or which one. And for whom?

Now for those who are saying we haven't improved, here are some stats compared the Round 3 game against Richmond. I am not saying today was great by any stretch, but to say we are still as unorganised as early in the season etc is ridiculous. This includes stats that we were constantly slammed for in the early part of the season e.g. uncontested possessions, inside 50s etc. (Excuse [censored] formatting)

Round 3 Today Difference

Score -59 -23 +36

Scoring Shots -14 -13 +1

Possessions -159 -61 +98

Uncont' Poss' -147 -41 +106

Inside 50s -35 -21 +14

We are still [censored], but we are improving under Neeld slowly. Let the bloke have his way with our list at the end of the next 2 seasons and see where we are. There is no use replacing a coach and going half arsed and giving him the flick after half a season.

Stats hey.... haha.... Maybe you should add the SEVEN players (including 3 or 4 that regularly kill us) onto the stats from today so that it's the same team as that first round...

Here comes the alternative scoreboards... Oh but we're better in this stat or that stat... Blah blah... We still got smashed today, geez if they had kicked even halfway decent we would have lost by a bigger margin than Round 1.

Don't draw too much comfort from stats.

We've got some problems, the least of which is that we got within 10 goals today. That just tells me the Tigers have a long way to go.

I've tried hard to defend Neeld but at some point the genuine lack of faith that his playing group inspires is starting to wear me down. If we don't have the cattle then come up with a way to compete. Roos and Lyon did it for years. I'm not asking for pretty, I'm just asking for respect and commitment. I'd hate to be looking for sponsors and members next year. We have shown nothing to inspire confidence and I think we might lose a few blokes over the off season who are sick of not competing.

At what point do we stop the BS about building for a 'premiership window' and just aim for respect and to be taken seriously?

I'm at that point today. I hate going to the footy and knowing the games over after 10 minutes.

Now for those who are saying we haven't improved, here are some stats compared the Round 3 game against Richmond. I am not saying today was great by any stretch, but to say we are still as unorganised as early in the season etc is ridiculous. This includes stats that we were constantly slammed for in the early part of the season e.g. uncontested possessions, inside 50s etc. (Excuse [censored] formatting)

Round 3 Today Difference

Score -59 -23 +36

Scoring Shots -14 -13 +1

Possessions -159 -61 +98

Uncont' Poss' -147 -41 +106

Inside 50s -35 -21 +14

We are still [censored], but we are improving under Neeld slowly. Let the bloke have his way with our list at the end of the next 2 seasons and see where we are. There is no use replacing a coach and going half arsed and giving him the flick after half a season.

We were playing a side that made 7 changes and despite our outs such massive change should have provided us with the opportunity to be at least competitive. And don't kid yourself about the margin, Richmond's poor kicking saved us from a hiding. And it was poor kicking not the result of our unrelenting pressure!

Some credit to Richmond for the pressure they applied but that is the worst game of footbal I have seen this year easily (from two sides).

I'm a fan of the Neeld mantra but where is the defensive side that he was going to make a priority?

Why is Magner played as a defesnive forward week in week out?

Why did Neeld persist the whole game with Dunn back and Rivers forward?

Why are players making fundamental skill errors after 15 rounds of footy?

Why, Why , Why = Tanking again

We were playing a side that made 7 changes and despite our outs such massive change should have provided us with the opportunity to be at least competitive. And don't kid yourself about the margin, Richmond's poor kicking saved us from a hiding. And it was poor kicking not the result of our unrelenting pressure!

We were hardly at full strength either mate, plus playing a lot of players out of position. Apart from Martin, who else of their outs were decent. There big guns were still there.

And I am not kidding myself and trying to say that was even an acceptable performance, I am simply sticking up for Mark Neeld and saying to those who say we have not improved, they are wrong, and that the mess is not his fault and that he needs to be given time to make it right.

Despite the heavier loss last week, I thought our ball movement was greatly improved - fluid even.

Today we were rubbish.

Here we are arguing the merits of Spud A, B & C - hell we've got a sack full

Stats hey.... haha.... Maybe you should add the SEVEN players (including 3 or 4 that regularly kill us) onto the stats from today so that it's the same team as that first round...

Here comes the alternative scoreboards... Oh but we're better in this stat or that stat... Blah blah... We still got smashed today, geez if they had kicked even halfway decent we would have lost by a bigger margin than Round 1.

Don't draw too much comfort from stats.

When did I say we weren't smashed today. We are missing plenty also and playing players out of position (as I said in the post above), and all I am trying to say is that there is improvement and also, that this is not Neeld's fault.

I had friends with me from interstate and they wanted to leave at half time. They said this is carp and not worth watching.

They are right!! the standard the MFC serves up to its supporters is shocking at this level. It was shocking in round 1 and it still is shocking to watch.

The club has recruited badly, it has performed badly in the development of players and this list shows bugger all signs of serious improvement.

Stuff this glass half full approach!!! this list is poor - very poor!! and whose fault is that??

As for gameday coaching - Neeld and his structures are killing any semblance of natural instinct for this group.

Its simply shyte football to watch. Not sure how much longer the club can survive on this.

People just wont turn up to games. Only so much goodwill left in the tank!!

Another day. Another loss. Today we had a crack but we just dont have the cattle or skills to win.

Simple as that.

kids develop "skills" from Under 11's. Was more than that. Richmond flogged us. Melbourne have no passion or desire, leadership game plan or direction.

There should be a lot of ashamed and embarrassed players after today's effort. The lack of capacity to execute basic skills under no pressure was alarming. Not just Bail ( though I think he was the worst) but throughout the team. The coaches have to take some significant amount of responsibility as well given that they've had some time now to have had some impact.

I was embarrassed that given the Richmond outs this week, we still never looked a chance.

delicate area here critique of coaches.

I find it hard to fathom those calling for Neeld's head. He cannot be held responsible for a group of players who can't execute the most basic skills of the game. The game plan is impossible to implement if the majority of the team find it hard to hit a target from 20 metres away.

And this is not his list, so he can't be blamed for the fact that these blokes are in the side in the first place. Whenever you replace a coach, unless you are in premiership contention and are just refreshing like Nathan Buckley, you have to be willing to give them 3 years at least to mould the list with players that suit his play and can execute his plan.

Do any of you numb nuts think if Mick Malthouse was sitting in the box Rohan Bail would be all of a sudden hitting targets left, right and centre.

The analogy to this is the very poor business plan of bring in a new leader, sack the staff, and let the new leader choose the new staff they want! The better and less disruptive option is to expect the new leader to get the best from the existing staff, gradually making changes as required.