The Urge to Merge

[Guest]

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

If we can arise from the depths of despair in 2013 to Premiers in 2021, anyone can do it in 9 years. We were worse in 2013 than Hawthorn today. In fact, I think our 2013 was probably the worst VFL/AFL team I've seen. And, yet, we still managed to climb out of the abyss to the summit in 9 "short" years.

In any other year, we would have won the spoon. GWS' presence saved us from that ignominious honor.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,805]

10 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

If we can arise from the depths of despair in 2013 to Premiers in 2021, anyone can do it in 9 years. We were worse in 2013 than Hawthorn today. In fact, I think our 2013 was probably the worst VFL/AFL team I've seen. And, yet, we still managed to climb out of the abyss to the summit in 9 "short" years.

Yeah it's possible, but unlikely when there are 17 other teams trying to climb that same summit.  There have also been 5 different premiers since 2013, so statistically a little over a quarter of teams in the comp won a flag in that same period.  It's not like the Hawks have totally bottomed out and got access to a bunch of good draft picks which would give them a better than average chance of reaching the summit again - another Clarko parting gift from the late season winning streak they went on in 2021.

Asides from St Kilda, several other well resourced teams with one 'sucessful cultures' are currently without a premership in over 20 years (Adelaide, Carlton, Essendon) and Freo with a natural advantage for WA tallent retention/attraction haven't conjured a flag in nearly 30 years. Hawthorn could similarly be at the start of such a long drought.  20 years is a whole generation of kids growing up without the ultimate sucess and many of us know how that feels, we've lived it!

Edited March 22, 2022 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[Fork 'em 6,983]

4 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Yeah it's possible, but unlikely when there are 17 other teams trying to climb that same summit.  There have also been 5 different premiers since 2013, so statistically a little over a quarter of teams in the comp won a flag in that same period.  It's not like the Hawks have totally bottomed out and got access to a bunch of good draft picks which would give them a better than average chance of reaching the summit again - another Clarko parting gift from the late season winning streak they went on in 2021.

Asides from St Kilda, several other well resourced teams with one 'sucessful cultures' are currently without a premership in over 20 years (Adelaide, Carlton, Essendon) and Freo with a natural advantage for WA tallent retention/attraction haven't conjured a flag in nearly 30 years. Hawthorn could similarly be at the start of such a long drought.  20 years is a whole generation of kids growing up without the ultimate sucess and many of us know how that feels, we've lived it!

There's an Essendon supporter I work with who's somewhere in his mid to late 20's.
He remembers vaguely a flag while at primary school but as far as he's concerned they've been no good for most of his life.
This is their young generation of supporters.
Love his pessimism.
Long may it continue.

As for Hawthorn they were bottom dwellers for a fair while before Clarkeson took over.
Remember Shane Crawford hanging on till his last game before he got his flag (That's what I'm talking about!).
They were 'lucky' enough to hit the drafting jackpot with some strategic tanking landing Hodge, Lewis, Franklin, Roughy, Mitchell and Rioli in consecutive years.
Hawthorn (and Geelongs) time at the top was also aided by the introduction of GC and GWS which hobbled the rest of the competition while they got their priority picks.
Meanwhile they filled holes in their lists by cherry picking players from struggling clubs looking for success.
Can they turn it around that quickly again .... I doubt it.





 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Fork 'em

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,693]

9 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

There's an Essendon supporter I work with who's somewhere in his mid to late 20's.
He remembers vaguely a flag while at primary school but as far as he's concerned they've been no good for most of his life.
This is their young generation of supporters.
Love his pessimism.
Long may it continue.

As for Hawthorn they were bottom dwellers for a fair while before Clarkeson took over.
Remember Shane Crawford hanging on till his last game before he got his flag (That's what I'm talking about!).
They were 'lucky' enough to hit the drafting jackpot with some strategic tanking landing Hodge, Lewis, Franklin, Roughy, Mitchell and Rioli in consecutive years.
Hawthorn (and Geelongs) time at the top was also aided by the introduction of GC and GWS which hobbled the rest of the competition while they got their priority picks.
Meanwhile they filled holes in their lists by cherry picking players from struggling clubs looking for success.
Can they turn it around that quickly again .... I doubt it.





 

Geelong were also significantly advantaged by some incredibly good father-son picks (G and N Ablett, Scarlett, Hawkins, Blake) with some (all?) acquired when they didn't have to pay full price in the drafting process.

[Fork 'em 6,983]

10 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Geelong were also significantly advantaged by some incredibly good father-son picks (G and N Ablett, Scarlett, Hawkins, Blake) with some (all?) acquired when they didn't have to pay full price in the drafting process.

Forgot about that.
Dank was also there with his famous supplements program.



 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,693]

29 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

Forgot about that.
Dank was also there with his famous supplements program.



 

Not convinced that would have helped them. Irrespective of their illegality (in sport), I remain unconvinced that Dank's project was in any way beneficial. A witch doctor might have been more effective than what he was peddling.

[Fork 'em 6,983]

17 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Not convinced that would have helped them. Irrespective of their illegality (in sport), I remain unconvinced that Dank's project was in any way beneficial. A witch doctor might have been more effective than what he was peddling.

When Thompson got to Essendon under Hird.
He looked at the list and told Hird his players they need more size.
We had these guys at Geelong.
Enter Dank and "The Weapon".



 

Edited March 22, 2022 by Fork 'em

[Sir Why You Little 36,985]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Not convinced that would have helped them. Irrespective of their illegality (in sport), I remain unconvinced that Dank's project was in any way beneficial. A witch doctor might have been more effective than what he was peddling.

It helped them massively for the first half of 2012, then they all started to break down 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,693]

1 hour ago, Fork 'em said:

When Thompson got to Essendon under Hird.
He looked at the list and told Hird his players they need more size.
We had these guys at Geelong.
Enter Dank and "The Weapon".



 

Mark Neeld was part of a successful Premiership team at Collingwood. Success isn't always transferrable.

30 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It helped them massively for the first half of 2012, then they all started to break down 

Correlation doesn't imply causation. The players' breaking down might have been because of poor training methods in other ways. 

I am yet to see any hard evidence that Dank's treatments (for want of a better word) did anything helpful.

[Sir Why You Little 36,985]

23 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Mark Neeld was part of a successful Premiership team at Collingwood. Success isn't always transferrable.

Correlation doesn't imply causation. The players' breaking down might have been because of poor training methods in other ways. 

I am yet to see any hard evidence that Dank's treatments (for want of a better word) did anything helpful.

They were twice the size in the hips. Players actually complained to Coaches about what was going on during Essendrug games. That’s where the first enquiry started. Ratten whilst at Carlton, made calls

[Fork 'em 6,983]

8 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

They were twice the size in the hips. Players actually complained to Coaches about what was going on during Essendrug games. That’s where the first enquiry started. Ratten whilst at Carlton, made calls

Pretty sure Thompsons comment to Hird was something like. .... They're not big enough through the hips.

[Sir Why You Little 36,985]

3 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

Pretty sure Thompsons comment to Hird was something like. .... They're not big enough through the hips.

Yes I remember reading this at the time. “The Weapon” was lauded by Essendrug supporters in the opening rounds, they were smashing teams, literally. Bones were being broken, which was the main reason Ratten made enquiries. 

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31 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Yes I remember reading this at the time. “The Weapon” was lauded by Essendrug supporters in the opening rounds, they were smashing teams, literally. Bones were being broken, which was the main reason Ratten made enquiries. 

Brian Taylor wouldn't shut up about "The Weapon" during scum games.
He was as big as "Neon Leon" and "The Package".

[Sir Why You Little 36,985]

6 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

Brian Taylor wouldn't shut up about "The Weapon" during scum games.
He was as big as "Neon Leon" and "The Package".

Oh yeah it all turned sour very quickly, and that was mainly because the players all broke down at the same time

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Oh yeah it all turned sour very quickly, and that was mainly because the players all broke down at the same time

I tend to remember SWYL's version of events.

They started the year looking like Clive James' proverbial 'condoms stuffed with walnuts' and, if I recall correctly, came down with soft tissue injuries from carrying too much weight. 

The year ended with a 100 point belting at the hands of Collingwood (last year's runner up and a premier in any other year) when they ran them to one point on the opposing Anzac Day fixture thus showing how far they had fallen.