On 05/04/2012 at 09:05, Range Rover said:

Have we? Frawley lacks the height to take on Buddy, Kreuzer and Cloke types. Rivers gets monstered by them. Garland can't play full back.

Talia (196cm/95kg) is genuine KPD height and build and has the tools to go with it.

It will continue to be a problem area for us unless Sellar can come on in sensational fashion. Here's hoping.

agreed

I've been big on the need for another genuine KP defender to go with Spud

In fact i've been big on the whole spine

Not to forget classy mids..................geez holes everywhere

How can you possibly call it a recruiting "blunder" when Talia has yet to do anything of note?

You're off with the pixies RR.

In fact, i would go as far to say that Gysberts has shown more in his first few games than many draftees in there first 40, MFC and other clubs. He just needs to develop a stronger body to compete more consistently.

If you have a gun midfield putting pressure on the opposition ball carrier then it makes the backmen's jobs far easier. However if you don't have the midfield to stop the delivery, then it doesn't matter how good your backmen are, no one can stop a lace out pass on to the forwards chest.

This is just a thread for the sake of having a thread. Feeling like you weren't being listened to at all lately RR? Feel the need to remind everyone of your presence? I think that's pretty much all this thread boils down too.

The question is a really hard one to answer. Given our current predicament you could make a case for having either Talia or Gysberts.

Both have been injury prone and both haven't done much on the AFL scene. We are lacking another quality KPD to help Frawley - is Talia that? Not yet. We are also lacking quality mids that thrive in a contested situation that can also dispose of it properly. Is Gysberts that? Not yet.

Either way, if we chose one or the other, we'd be hoping that their respective qualities would help in our problem areas.

Daniel Talia? Pfft, I'd have taken Serhat Temel.

  On 05/04/2012 at 08:56, Arsene Wenger said:

Even though we've already filled those positions, but are desperate for quality midfielders............

Frawley fills on of those. I'd love to know who you think fills another. Garland, Rivers, Sellar even Martin at a stretch. None of these players are a Key Defenders butt-hole. Garland is way too lose and doesn't have the body to hold down CHB/FB, Rivers has never been either - more 3rd man up (Garland would replace him), Sellar - well and Martin can only play back-up ruck - a KPF/KPD he is not.

  On 05/04/2012 at 10:23, Nasher said:

Daniel Talia? Pfft, I'd have taken Serhat Temel.

Please don't start JCB up with this again.

  On 05/04/2012 at 09:18, Range Rover said:

Got no issue with the midfield being an issue. It's why Scully and Trengove were snapped up. But it's too simple to say it's our only problem area moving forward.

A critical decision came at pick 11 and instead of going with the U/18AACHB no-brainer who most pundits had predicted us to be pick, Prenders got cute and went for a left-field pick.

It matters not whether or not I have foresight (although if you care to troll my posts you'll find I was pro-Talia). It only matters if the recruiter being paid salary does.

And he's no longer around ... is he.

Our midfield is our biggest problem. It stood out like the proverbial last year and this year so far. You need eight good quality midfielders we had none at that draft. We went a midfielder. It logical. The issue is why didnt he nab Fyfe.

All you are doing is using hindsight with at best a flimsy case. And I not sure the relevance of whether BP is still here or not.

  On 05/04/2012 at 10:23, Demon Disciple said:

Frawley fills on of those. I'd love to know who you think fills another. Garland, Rivers, Sellar even Martin at a stretch. None of these players are a Key Defenders butt-hole. Garland is way too lose and doesn't have the body to hold down CHB/FB, Rivers has never been either - more 3rd man up (Garland would replace him), Sellar - well and Martin can only play back-up ruck - a KPF/KPD he is not.

Garland is 2cm shorter than Frawley and Rivers is 1cm shorter than Frawley. Go have a look at ruler and see what sort of difference that is. The three are, for all intents and purposes, the same size. And just to add, Tom McDonald is 194 and Troy Davis is 192 - with the improved form these two have shown, odds are that at least one of them will be good enough.

And how many monster key defenders do you need anyway? Smart play while defending and aggression while attacking are more important than pure size. Garland and Frawley tick both these boxes. With a defence centred around these two, this is the only area on the ground where I feel we've truly got an advantage over other teams.

  On 05/04/2012 at 10:23, Nasher said:

Daniel Talia? Pfft, I'd have taken Serhat Temel.

I liked this.

It felt so good that I Unliked it just so that I could press Like again.

We were so short of key defenders that we traded Warnock (because he couldn't get a game) and then switched Tom McDonald from a defender into a forward.

Yep, key defenders is really the place that we are weak in. Maybe we could throw Talia into the midfield to win clearances for us.

  On 05/04/2012 at 10:39, Axis of Bob said:

Yep, key defenders is really the place that we are weak in. Maybe we could throw Talia into the midfield to win clearances for us.

Not to mention the fact that all the keyboard recruiters were upset because we passed on Talia when they thought he was going to be a gun forward. The fact that he's making his debut as a defender only vindicates our decision to give him a miss.

  On 05/04/2012 at 10:33, Nasher said:

Garland is 2cm shorter than Frawley and Rivers is 1cm shorter than Frawley. Go have a look at ruler and see what sort of difference that is. The three are, for all intents and purposes, the same size. And just to add, Tom McDonald is 194 and Troy Davis is 192 - with the improved form these two have shown, odds are that at least one of them will be good enough.

And how many monster key defenders do you need anyway? Smart play while defending and aggression while attacking are more important than pure size. Garland and Frawley tick both these boxes. With a defence centred around these two, this is the only area on the ground where I feel we've truly got an advantage over other teams.

You have got to be kidding me. Stand Frawley, Garland and Rivers side by side and then tell me that they are the same size. How naive do you have to be if you look at height and weight to judge body size. Such a misinformed opinion.

Ok, lets play the game your way. Frawley is 193cm and 93kg, Dunn is 192cm and 95kg. Stand them side by side, or better yet, actually see them in person close up, then tell me they are the same size. Dunn is nowhere near the same size as Frawley. But oh no, let's just use stats to justify a comparison.

  On 05/04/2012 at 11:11, Demon Disciple said:

You have got to be kidding me. Stand Frawley, Garland and Rivers side by side and then tell me that they are the same size. How naive do you have to be if you look at height and weight to judge body size. Such a misinformed opinion.

Ok, lets play the game your way. Frawley is 193cm and 93kg, Dunn is 192cm and 95kg. Stand them side by side, or better yet, actually see them in person close up, then tell me they are the same size. Dunn is nowhere near the same size as Frawley. But oh no, let's just use stats to justify a comparison.

The point is, they're all mediums, including Frawley (and Talia), so the type of player they play on should be reasonably interchangeable, and I believe that is the case. Sellar is the only true tall defender we have - hence the need to recruit him in the first place.

And given than Col Garland and James Frawley aren't currently standing in my living room, I don't see what option I have other than to use stats to make my point.

I have no problems with gysberts at all he is a poor mans James hird in the making and I'll take that anyday. have faith people we will have our fare share of duds but trust me they arnt all duds and there will be some pretty good talent when they reach there mid 20's

Jordan Gysberts, for me, was a surprise pick - skinny kid who was okay @ school footy but can't match it with stronger bodies.

Same school as Blease - 1st XV111 coach was amazed that both boys got drafted so early.

  On 05/04/2012 at 10:37, Axis of Bob said:

I liked this.

It felt so good that I Unliked it just so that I could press Like again.

U 2 should get a room, & just keep pressing one anothers buttons.

We can't have 'em all!

The Gys is going to be serious value for us if he can get his body sorted out. He's got the build of a flanker with the mindset of an inside mid. Wins his own ball on the ground and in the air. We have a desperate need for guys who can rack up big disposal counts, and he went 30+ in his first game. I just want him to have a couple of seasons without injuries.

FFS swan was a pick 40 something and we didn't pick him.

Get over it we didn't pick them done and dusted.....next

In the mean time down at East Perth Royals land we thank our lucky stars we have Freddie Clutterbuck burning up the mid field with him in the best players two out of two games so far ....

  On 06/04/2012 at 01:05, Loyal Royal said:

In the mean time down at East Perth Royals land we thank our lucky stars we have Freddie Clutterbuck burning up the mid field with him in the best players two out of two games so far ....

Carn the Royals!

Hi Range Rover. It's the hindsight warrior here.

I have to say, I can't agree with you on this one. I think Gysberts was a great pick - one of the few in which the recruiters IMO showed some genuine expertise.

We should have picked Trengove 1, Martin 2 & Fyfe 12 in that draft. Awesome!!!!

Hindsight is wonderful!

  On 06/04/2012 at 02:38, jungle dee said:

We should have picked Trengove 1, Martin 2 & Fyfe 12 in that draft. Awesome!!!!

Hindsight is wonderful!

+ Darling = a flag.

The hits keep on comin'.

Bwump.

Range Rover called it on April 5 this year, as usual to much derision.