I don't believe in pretending anymore I have a look at our side and just can't see the improvement, there's just not the talent there. We need Leaders and we need midfielders, lots of new ones, we have battlers and that's not enough. Look at Carlton and compare their Midfield to ours and they aren't even the top club in the comp. We aren't a patch on them and we have no genuine star, they have a couple.

Moloney - Battler

Jones - Battler

McKenzie - Battler

Gysberts - Very Good but disposal has been terrible

They all try hard but they are just not A grade footballers and are usually smashed in clearances when we play a side with a top midfield, or even a good one. Who is going to come in and solve that little problem for us? We have no one in the wings we have been recruiting forwards and backs but no mids. We may eventually put Trenners in there or Blease but they are not really there as midfielders.

Where is the improvement going to come from?

And don't say Grimes he is on the permanent injury list.

Robbie F. Yesterday we were violated by our bosses....They sat and watched in silence...Sanctioned AFL.

Are you going to roll over & cry or are you going to stand up??

How would Jimmy Stynes feel yesterday....Hmmmm?

I want this club to win a cup for Jimmy....i want him to accept it.

Next week i am going to send more $$$ to the club to help beef up the Football Department.

We now have a reason to be mad forever.....Demons breath Fire

Fire can cause much damage.

Are you with me Robbie F??

Low in the 8 in 2012 means in effect pick 12ish and 13ish, to go with Jack Viney.

That'll be three picks you'd expect to become decent quality players, in one draft.

If they turn out to be players of the calibre of [Frawley] and [Grimes] for our trouble, I think we'll quickly forget Scully.

Of course, if it turns out to be a [Dunn] and [bate] equivalent pair of picks, we won't be too happy. But life goes on.

Given the 'superdraft status' and the improvement in sophistication of draft in the last three years or so, we should at least not be screwed here.

Besides, two 'good' players between them will take about as much salary cap space as one Tom Scully.

The only question is whether we'll have the kind of 'star power' we all crave.

Surely, surely, somewhere in this horde of talented kids...

Robbie F. Yesterday we were violated by our bosses....They sat and watched in silence...Sanctioned AFL.

Are you going to roll over & cry or are you going to stand up??

How would Jimmy Stynes feel yesterday....Hmmmm?

I want this club to win a cup for Jimmy....i want him to accept it.

Next week i am going to send more $$$ to the club to help beef up the Football Department.

We now have a reason to be mad forever.....Demons breath Fire

Fire can cause much damage.

Are you with me Robbie F??

WYL I seriously doubt that the Dees can win anything before it is too late!

Love it too be true it just seems impossible at this point.

In fact 2012 could be very bloody sad.

So, taking into consideration the process of Father and Son selection for Jack Viney;

If another club challenges our selection of Jack next year (meaning we have to use a higher pick then they are willing to offer) are our compensation picks immune to this challenge?

I.e we don't have to use our top pick to secure JV.

No, we don't have to bid higher. We have to bid our NEXT pick AFTER whatever is bid by others (and compo picks are excluded)

There will obviously be lots of bluff bids so expect to lose our 2012 first round pick

Low in the 8 in 2012 means in effect pick 12ish and 13ish, to go with Jack Viney.

That'll be three picks you'd expect to become decent quality players, in one draft.

If they turn out to be players of the calibre of [Frawley] and [Grimes] for our trouble, I think we'll quickly forget Scully.

Of course, if it turns out to be a [Dunn] and [bate] equivalent pair of picks, we won't be too happy. But life goes on.

Given the 'superdraft status' and the improvement in sophistication of draft in the last three years or so, we should at least not be screwed here.

Besides, two 'good' players between them will take about as much salary cap space as one Tom Scully.

The only question is whether we'll have the kind of 'star power' we all crave.

Surely, surely, somewhere in this horde of talented kids...

LG I think you are kidding yourself "Low in the eight in 2012"

If we rise higher than 10th I will be very surprised.

I just do not see a lot of improvement next year.

I am hoping we can reduce the floggings.

No, we don't have to bid higher. We have to bid our NEXT pick AFTER whatever is bid by others (and compo picks are excluded)

There will obviously be lots of bluff bids so expect to lose our 2012 first round pick

If compo picks don't count and we trade our first round pick would be able to use our second round pick (as our first available pick) to select Jack Viney?

WYL I seriously doubt that the Dees can win anything before it is too late!

Love it too be true it just seems impossible at this point.

In fact 2012 could be very bloody sad.

Then we have 2 reasons to NEVER FORGET old dee.

Not long ago Vlad said that this club doesn't stand for anything.

Well now it does. The MFC v The AFL. We will win, but do it right.

Not like Essendon Thuggery or Carlton Cheating.

Win because we NEVER FORGET....

The Melbourne Football Club just might have found it's Mojo, the one we lost in '65

When does that Norm Smith Statue go up?

If compo picks don't count and we trade our first round pick would be able to use our second round pick (as our first available pick) to select Jack Viney?

No, as I think the declaration date precedes the trade week. The AFL were awake to this.

should try and trade one of them for Chris Dawes, he'd be a good fit, or another tall forward, maybe Sam reid?

Chris Dawes is an average player at a very well coached club. He is similar to Jesse White and would end up as a dud at our club. We need a gun midfielder ahead of a second string forward.

Sam Reid is way out of our league. Sydney will not let him go.

LG I think you are kidding yourself "Low in the eight in 2012"

If we rise higher than 10th I will be very surprised.

I just do not see a lot of improvement next year.

I am hoping we can reduce the floggings.

Prepare to be surprised. We will play finals next year.

We had a shocker this year but have a huge amount of talent and will improve next year.

Then we have 2 reasons to NEVER FORGET old dee.

Not long ago Vlad said that this club doesn't stand for anything.

Well now it does. The MFC v The AFL. We will win, but do it right.

Not like Essendon Thuggery or Carlton Cheating.

Win because we NEVER FORGET....

The Melbourne Football Club just might have found it's Mojo, the one we lost in '65

When does that Norm Smith Statue go up?

The only one I heard say that was Patrick Smith on SEN.

However your sentiment is correct.

I have watched G Lyon over the last month or so and the only regret I have is that he is not going to be permanently envolved.

He has that steely stare that has been missing at the MFC for as long as I can remember.

Yes, compo picks are immune to Father-Son bidding.

Thanks Jack.

And don't say Grimes he is on the permanent injury list.

not to mention has done absolutely zilch as a midfielder bar about 5 minutes in a preseason game once

Same compensation as what Geelong got for Ablett is as good as your gonna get in the expansion rubble... I'm content with that.

A little unsure as to why the immediate pick after your first round pick is only eligible between 2012 and 2015. Why can't we use it this year?

not to mention has done absolutely zilch as a midfielder bar about 5 minutes in a preseason game once

Bit harsh, only managed 32 games. But has got over 20 possessions in 22 of those games.

FWIW i believe that it will unfold like this:

2011- Trade compo pick and player/s (Bate/Dunn/Warnock or two thereof maybe) to GWS for 17 year old selection of O'Meara. (Similar to GC17, GWS will be looking for 'bankable compo picks' to maintain draft strength for a few years).

2012- (Assuming a finish around 9-11) We will have to use our normal live first round pick on Viney as someone lower than us will make a bid. The question will be whether we will also use the remaining compo pick in the draft or try to package it as a trade for a need.

We are still a long way off being a finals team. I believe that the club will continue on the path of games into the youth. O'Meara by all reports is a star in the making given he has speed, high-level endurance, great skills and decision making and the ability to kick goals. He could be the perfect compensation for losing Scully. I also believe that in a similar vein to Viney, we can apply to have both Viney and O'Meara play VFL at Casey next year to get them ready for 2013.

I don't believe that we will trade for an experienced stroong mid or tall key forward this year as in all honesty the pool at the moment is very shallow. Name a REASONABLE to GOOD tall key forward that is worth giving up a first and second rounder AND is available. Don't think there will be much out there.

Likewise a mid worthy of this kind of deal.

I may be way off the mark but these are my thoughts on the matter.

I don't believe that we will trade for an experienced stroong mid or tall key forward this year as in all honesty the pool at the moment is very shallow. Name a REASONABLE to GOOD tall key forward that is worth giving up a first and second rounder AND is available. Don't think there will be much out there.

Likewise a mid worthy of this kind of deal.

I believe that the stay at home full forward we should be looking at is Todd Elton come draft time. Sure he's young and will need time to develop, but he is more advanced in his body than the likes of Cook and Watts were when they first came onto our list.

So if we say finish 8th next year what picks would we get?

Presumably 9 and 10

Confirmed on AFL Website two first round picks we will come out the winner here, provided we use them wisely. We must leave them to 2012 though.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/123357/default.aspx

If we finish near the bottom next year, which I expect we will, we could finish up with, say pick 3 & 4 or picks 4 & 5 plus a pick at the end of the first round in 2012. That would be harder to predict as other clubs will be using their delayed compo picks in that year. But if the draft is as good as is expected we could have three top picks in the top 20, not sure if we will have to use one on Jack Viney but if we do it will be the last one in the first round, if not we get him as well.

You little beauty.

I agree but unsure re the situation with Viney.

FWIW i believe that it will unfold like this:

2011- Trade compo pick and player/s (Bate/Dunn/Warnock or two thereof maybe) to GWS for 17 year old selection of O'Meara. (Similar to GC17, GWS will be looking for 'bankable compo picks' to maintain draft strength for a few years).

2012- (Assuming a finish around 9-11) We will have to use our normal live first round pick on Viney as someone lower than us will make a bid. The question will be whether we will also use the remaining compo pick in the draft or try to package it as a trade for a need.

We are still a long way off being a finals team. I believe that the club will continue on the path of games into the youth. O'Meara by all reports is a star in the making given he has speed, high-level endurance, great skills and decision making and the ability to kick goals. He could be the perfect compensation for losing Scully. I also believe that in a similar vein to Viney, we can apply to have both Viney and O'Meara play VFL at Casey next year to get them ready for 2013.

I don't believe that we will trade for an experienced stroong mid or tall key forward this year as in all honesty the pool at the moment is very shallow. Name a REASONABLE to GOOD tall key forward that is worth giving up a first and second rounder AND is available. Don't think there will be much out there.

Likewise a mid worthy of this kind of deal.

I may be way off the mark but these are my thoughts on the matter.

I share similar sentiments with the latter part. I think most of our trading virtually VFL players is pie in the sky. At best they would give us picks after 50 for any of them. The package theory has proved to be a failure for new clubs in the past. Freemantle got 3 ordinary bombers for Matthew Lloyd. Recruiters have learnt.

I believe that the stay at home full forward we should be looking at is Todd Elton come draft time. Sure he's young and will need time to develop, but he is more advanced in his body than the likes of Cook and Watts were when they first came onto our list.

I think your on the mark but come and watch him play against Jack Viney at Visy Park this Saturday at 1.45pm.

BE THERE ?

I say trade them both in trade week 1 + a player for some experience & the other 1 for Omeara....

I share similar sentiments with the latter part. I think most of our trading virtually VFL players is pie in the sky. At best they would give us picks after 50 for any of them. The package theory has proved to be a failure for new clubs in the past. Freemantle got 3 ordinary bombers for Matthew Lloyd. Recruiters have learnt.

I hear what your saying. The value they get is the bankable compo pick. The other blokes add the meat to their list which they will need especially in non-midfield areas. I know they are predominantly VFL players but remember blokes like Danny Stanley, Sam Iles and at the end Josh Fraser were all just VFL players too.

At the moment GWS have no strength or real senior experience in the forward or back halves. Melbourne have the highest available bankable compo draft pick (and there won't be any other signees in the same bracket as Scully this year). IMO this pick coupled with a strong Key Backman who has shown he can handle big forwards or a lead up strong bodied marking forward who can also have an impact at AFL level and is still in his mid-late twenties is a reasonably well balanced deal.

GWS HAVE to trade the 17 year old picks so in the end i think it is the kind of deal that can get done to get access to O'Meara.

NO TRADES WITH GWS!

We don't negotiate with these bastards. EVER. It's us Vs them from now on.

I don't care if we can't land one of these 17 year olds, and I don't want to be taking kids all the time- so some new club in the future can rip them out from under our noses too? Please!

We trade with others as GWS have already drawn the battle lines. I don't want to give them a priority pick that will give them an even better position next year.

NO TRADES WITH GWS!

We don't negotiate with these bastards. EVER. It's us Vs them from now on.

I don't care if we can't land one of these 17 year olds, and I don't want to be taking kids all the time- so some new club in the future can rip them out from under our noses too? Please!

We trade with others as GWS have already drawn the battle lines. I don't want to give them a priority pick that will give them an even better position next year.

If GWS have what we need, then we trade. Simple.

We want the best. Don't be so precious mate.

GWS is the AFL, they will not shaft us EVER again.