Bate as a midfielder?

[monoccular 17,574]

Lack of pace would be the worry, but it could't hurt to try it!

Lack of leg speed pace is one thing -- total absence of a turning circle is an even bigger drawback IMO, especially as a mid, though his body strength would be an asset.

I have never really noticed - can he tackle? I guess you have to catch up with them first, though in close that may not be so vital.

[rpfc 28,779]

Bate's current largest deficiency is playing too much at Casey and being able to adapt

confidently to AFL level. Bate will seek trade as soon as this season finishes and

watch him flourish at another club.

My biggest question regarding Bate is are we a good enough side to leave someone like

Bate out of the side? Is he only our 30th best player I think we got ahead of ourselves

leaving him out of the side.

Yes, possibly.

PS. The way you cut up your lines makes it harder to read. It's like William Shatner is voicing your posts...

[Bonkers 994]

Yes, possibly.

PS. The way you cut up your lines makes it harder to read. It's like William Shatner is voicing your posts...

Maybe an iPhone issue? Quite funny really.

Of the players mentioned only warnock would have any real trade value left as KPBs are in demand. He may fetch a second round pick at best. Something to consider if we are looking at bringing in a quality player as we could use the second rnd pick with our first rnd pick to get a deal done.

[Akum 2,660]

What we lack in our midfield is physical strength. Although we're more than competitive against young midfields, we get so easily outmuscled by the more physically mature midfields of the top 6-8 sides. And this will continue to happen for the next 2, possibly 3, seasons, unless we pick up a mature-bodied mid with strength in a trade. Therefore, we are going to struggle against the top 6-8 sides for the next 3 seasons unless we can remedy this problem.

When we're getting outmuscleed in the midfield, we need someone who can be thrown in there to add physical strength. At the moment, Bate is one of the options to do this, and it's hard to really think of others - Grimes perhaps, maybe Tapscott or Jetta, maybe McNamara if he stays, but they're really still too young for next season and the one after. That's why we've tried Joel MacDonald & Petterd, but they've been less successful at AFL level than at VFL.

Bate actually played some good games in the midfield when we were tanking (sorry, "experimenting"). Seriously, one reason for my disenchantment with Bailey as a coach is that during the time of experimentation, some of the moves he made were actually pretty useful. Bate in the midfield was one; Dunn as a defensive forward was definitely one; Jamar as a forward against Carlton was good; Warnock or Frawley forward was another. But without the tanking, Bailey seemed incapable of intelligent experimentation.

When we're getting smashed for one reason or another is a good opportunity for intelligent experimentation. Bate won't be needed in the midfield in every game, and might not be in the best 22 for a lot of games, but he'd be a good "contingency" selection when here's a risk of being outmuscled in the midfield.

[Guest Gareth Keenan]

Sorry, but Bate is a worse option than Bartram in the middle.

[daisycutter 29,739]

At one minute to midnight for Bate it's a bit rich trying to reinvent him as a midfielder

If the coaching staff thought he might have clicked in the midfield then they have had years to try it. Obviously they didn't think so.

Time to move on, get what you can for him (GWS?) and give some other young talent a crack

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

At one minute to midnight for Bate it's a bit rich trying to reinvent him as a midfielder

If the coaching staff thought he might have clicked in the midfield then they have had years to try it. Obviously they didn't think so.

Time to move on, get what you can for him (GWS?) and give some other young talent a crack

Indeed. His value for MFC is on the trade table.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

It is plain semantics.

Because if Warnock is genuine depth even without MacDonald and Davis there presence does not make his position any rosier. And after 7 years you know what you get from Warnock and its not enought to force a regular best 22 spot.There is no question about how long you keep Warnock...You dont he goes. MacDonald and Davis are both 18 or 19. Its unreasonable to judge them yet on what they cant do. On the basis of what they can do at a sub 20yo age then if you were looking at contracts for the next 2 years they get them. And from what I have seen at Casey and on Saturday, MacDonald has Warnock already for mobility.

Warnock is in the same boat as Bate and Dunn. They just have different seat numbers on board.

I've always felt Warnock would go and probably should go but I probably see it slightly different to you Rhino. I can see Matty being a very useful player elsewhere. It's hard to justify picking a classic full back type like Warnock in a side that likes to load up off half back but I can see him as a pretty handy acquisition for a side that plays a slower contested game. I'm tipping he'll play somewhere else and do it well.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I've always felt Warnock would go and probably should go but I probably see it slightly different to you Rhino. I can see Matty being a very useful player elsewhere. It's hard to justify picking a classic full back type like Warnock in a side that likes to load up off half back but I can see him as a pretty handy acquisition for a side that plays a slower contested game. I'm tipping he'll play somewhere else and do it well.

He will probably get a gig elsewhere through the PSD. In the current era which team plays a slower contested game? With the epmphasis on pressure on the ball carrier and most sides seeking to employ presses, Matty struggles when taken up the ground where his lack of pace will be exposed. Good luck to him with his future.

[Guest Thomo]

I've always felt Warnock would go and probably should go but I probably see it slightly different to you Rhino. I can see Matty being a very useful player elsewhere. It's hard to justify picking a classic full back type like Warnock in a side that likes to load up off half back but I can see him as a pretty handy acquisition for a side that plays a slower contested game. I'm tipping he'll play somewhere else and do it well.

I think one of Warnocks biggest problems is that he is in a backline with Rivers, Bartram, MacDonald and Grimes, all have below average foot skills. A team may be able to play one or two pure defenders if they have some very good users of the ball around them, but Melbourne do not. Currently Melbourne would be close to the least skilled team in the AFL, so I think that he has a better chance of getting games at almost every other club.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I think one of Warnocks biggest problems is that he is in a backline with Rivers, Bartram, MacDonald and Grimes, all have below average foot skills. A team may be able to play one or two pure defenders if they have some very good users of the ball around them, but Melbourne do not. Currently Melbourne would be close to the least skilled team in the AFL, so I think that he has a better chance of getting games at almost every other club.

....as another player with below average foot skills???

The problem for Warnock was that he wasnt in the backline of players.

But you are right, MFC will have to find better solutions to Rivers, Bartram and JoelMac coming out of defence.

I am just wondering who the pure defenders are with below average foot skills at Geelong and Collingwood.

[Guest Thomo]

....as another player with below average foot skills???

The problem for Warnock was that he wasnt in the backline of players.

But you are right, MFC will have to find better solutions to Rivers, Bartram and JoelMac coming out of defence.

I am just wondering who the pure defenders are with below average foot skills at Geelong and Collingwood.

I didn't say Geelong or Collingwood had them, so don't make things up.

What I said was that teams with skilled backlines may be able to play a player like Warnock as a pure defender as his deficiencies will not get exposed as much if he has others around him who will can skilfully move the ball out of the backline. Do you think Warnock would have less pressure on him with Bartam and Rivers next to him or Davis and O'Brian?

Buckley certainly looks better with skill around him.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I didn't say Geelong or Collingwood had them, so don't make things up.

What I said was that teams with skilled backlines may be able to play a player like Warnock as a pure defender as his deficiencies will not get exposed as much if he has others around him who will can skilfully move the ball out of the backline. Do you think Warnock would have less pressure on him with Bartam and Rivers next to him or Davis and O'Brian?

Buckley certainly looks better with skill around him.

Well done. I didn't make things up. i thought of the two best defences in the AFL and wondered who there poor disposers are. They dont have any and I think thats Warnnocks problem. If teams are seeking to improvement he may be a compromise on that no matter how you hide them

I think it six of one, half a dozen of the other with Warnock. I am not convinced he can play on the gorilla forwards and our agreed assessment of his liabilities makes him a punt at best. FWIW, I think only Geelong and Collingwood could "hide" a Warnock during the season but in the finals...

And I am not sure Buckley could have been worse at MFC. He might look better at Collingwood but he averages down their skills considerably.

[H_T 3,049]

*BUMP*

Well, two months on since the last post, Bate has survived being traded and was required under Neeld.. So far he seems to be making a fist of it on the track in getting the best out of himself and being the fittest he has ever been at Melbourne. A midfield role may well be in the pipeworks for 2012.

I wish him all the best in his endeavours.

[Guest KingDingAling]

I wish him the best, no excuses now, he's always whinged that he wasnt given a shot in the midfield.

If he plays desperate, it could work out - because he does have the skills, just lacks the ticker and desperation.

[jayceebee31 761]

He obviously played on him at VFL level. Hes well suited, ( if not too good) there. At AFL level you need to be fleet of foot , very quick to dispose and dispose effectively. You need all of this to the power 2 when playing the midfield as the acceleration through teh midfield is what breaks lines. Bate simply doesnt have this.. hed get dacked. He gets far to oeasily coralled as it is let alone when theres kaotic traffic..

Glad to see that Mark Neeld agrees with me and & not R.R.and you.R.R wanted to use him as trade bait.However,it is up to him nowI wish him all the best- don't you?

Edited November 26, 2011 by jayceebee31

[jnrmac 20,187]

Who have we got that can break out of the midfield? A Daniel Kerr, Judd explosive player. SOmeone that can get the pill take 5 explosive paces and deliver the ball to a forward? These guys are hard to find granted but a midfield of Bate, Beamer, Trengove, Gysberts, Jones or even Tapscott doesn't do it for me. Maybe Bail and Bennell could play that role but we gotta find someone that can do it.

[Green Machine 63]

Who have we got that can break out of the midfield? A Daniel Kerr, Judd explosive player. SOmeone that can get the pill take 5 explosive paces and deliver the ball to a forward? These guys are hard to find granted but a midfield of Bate, Beamer, Trengove, Gysberts, Jones or even Tapscott doesn't do it for me. Maybe Bail and Bennell could play that role but we gotta find someone that can do it.

Sylvia is capable of doing this. He has done it before, but needs to be more consistent.

[jayceebee31 761]

He obviously played on him at VFL level. Hes well suited, ( if not too good) there. At AFL level you need to be fleet of foot , very quick to dispose and dispose effectively. You need all of this to the power 2 when playing the midfield as the acceleration through teh midfield is what breaks lines. Bate simply doesnt have this.. hed get dacked. He gets far to oeasily coralled as it is let alone when theres kaotic traffic..

I can assure you he is quicker than several budding midfielders right now.Also his strength will be a major factor in this regard.

[jnrmac 20,187]

Agree with Sylvia but in 8 years his best in the Bluey is 5th. Can't see him doing this with regularity from here on. Zero second and third efforts. Will definitely be interesting to see how Neeld handles him.

[jayceebee31 761]

Who have we got that can break out of the midfield? A Daniel Kerr, Judd explosive player. SOmeone that can get the pill take 5 explosive paces and deliver the ball to a forward? These guys are hard to find granted but a midfield of Bate, Beamer, Trengove, Gysberts, Jones or even Tapscott doesn't do it for me. Maybe Bail and Bennell could play that role but we gotta find someone that can do it.

No one- this to me is our major weakness.I think Neeld realizes this and this is why he is trying to use Bate here with his strength in getting the ball out.In virtually all drills I have seen so far at training, he is utilizing Bate in this regard.

[maximum bob 462]

Good luck to Bate...2012 is now or never. Fortunate to get another crack on the past couple of years imo...no wonder he's training so well.

It'll be worth watching the first few matches to see where he's played, how he plays and how he's rotated. If he's in the starting 22 to begin with that is.

It's going to require three sets of eyes early on keeping track of various players we all want to check. Can't wait.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I think Bate's form has gone downhill over the last few years and he was a much better player two to three years ago; how much of this is due to confidence and how much is due to the changing nature of the game remains to be seen. If it is a confidence issue he may be able to regain some of it under a new coach, if it's the changing nature of the game it will be harder.

Maybe a change in position and a new direction, with a coach who clearly wants him, will give him the shot in the arm he needs.

[Sir Why You Little 37,131]

i don't think Dean Bailey knew quite what to do with Matty Bate....he was never settled.

I still rate Matty and am glad we kept him...i will be very interested to watch him closely in 2012.

He could be like a new recruit.

[Retrospective 104]

Who have we got that can break out of the midfield? A Daniel Kerr, Judd explosive player. SOmeone that can get the pill take 5 explosive paces and deliver the ball to a forward? These guys are hard to find granted but a midfield of Bate, Beamer, Trengove, Gysberts, Jones or even Tapscott doesn't do it for me. Maybe Bail and Bennell could play that role but we gotta find someone that can do it.

Scully? Judd and to a lesser extent Kerr are rare commodities... that is why they go for pick one or big contracts ......and with the departure of TS we don't have anyone that naturally fits that sort of role. Need to use what we've got to the best effect from here.

I think Bate can still be very good.... has been cruelled over the last few years by either 1. a game plan that didn't suit him or 2. The absence of much of a game plan at all.

I think he'll contribute a lot this season