A tale of two clubs - in the end it was a close result - and MFC recognise that's just not good enough and we need to make big changes. RFC do appear to be making some progress with Gale, Cameron and Hardwick. Their supporters around us thought so yesterday - so bereft of any success, it seemed like they'd summitted Everest when really beating us currently is like summitting Mt.Waverley.

Sad but true

Does not alter the fact Redleg he kicked 3 goals.

That is 2 more than Green Watts and Petterd and 3 more than Davey

If he is a hack where does that leave the above?

PS I will excuse Watts it was a poor game after a fairly good year.

Miller's out of contract with the Tigers at the end of the year, is he not? Seems like the time of contract negotiations he usually fires up......

It's this kind of thing that makes me frustrated that he doesn't want to coach. I know it's hard to tell if he would be good tactically from the couple of games he has coached, but his no-nonsense attitude is something that has been direly missed from coaching at the MFC for as long as i can remember.

If you watch his press conference he is seriously unhappy with the result, saying it's not good enough and he won't accept not being hard at it all day. Personally i thought we played pretty well, it was pretty line ball in the end a missed opportunity here and there from both sides.

Watching his presser really makes me want him to be our coach. It's a damn shame

Could we possibly afford to have an attitude coach?

It wasn't a good day for Joel Mac - cannot question his commitment but he must be staring down the barrel.

Has been one of the few to stand up in several games of late.

One mediocre performance shouldn't warrant a hanging.

Miller's out of contract with the Tigers at the end of the year, is he not? Seems like the time of contract negotiations he usually fires up......

Is no one prepared to admit he played well yesterday?

Could we possibly afford to have an attitude coach?

There's so much talk about base camps and climbing mountains that we're soon going to need an altitude coach as well.

Does not alter the fact Redleg he kicked 3 goals.

That is 2 more than Green Watts and Petterd and 3 more than Davey

If he is a hack where does that leave the above?

PS I will excuse Watts it was a poor game after a fairly good year.

How many times have we heard it from commentators (usually ex players giving expert commentary) as they watch our games unfold objectively and say??.......

"I wouldn't like to be a forward playing with the Demons at the moment".

In other words, the way we bring the ball in monsters our forward's opportunities and their chances of conversion. And it's not just one or two players. It's our experienced crew, and our not so experienced crew etc. From yesterday.... Jones, Moloney, Scully McKenzie, Martin! No it's not something that happens by just these players, nor every single time they enter the forward line in every match.

We do sometimes hit up a leading target. We do occasionally lower our eyes and find a better option. But i'd sure love to see the 'hail mary' percentage of entries into our forward 50.

If we had a Carey, an Ablett, a Dunstall, a Cloke, or even a Pods. If we had a Betts, a Milne, a Swan or a Stevie Johnson to work off the crumbs and score occasionally from what's left over when the key forward fails to take the big grab, which is quite often the case. Then our 'hail mary' style might actually produce a better conversion rate and i wouldn't be so concerned.

Even Col, with his BOG performance yesterday, either missed the odd target coming in, or failed to look around and lay off to a better positioned running player on a few odd occasions. Jones also missed at least one option coming inside 50 where a player was clearly in a better position to score in that last quarter.

The team things.

The way we bring the ball into the 50 has to change big time if we're sticking with this present line up, or we need to do some serious recruiting to ensure it pays off a little more. Maybe a bit of both.

This and the lack of pressure our forwards bring and our inability to implement an effective workable forward press (and cope with it up the other end in defence) are a few of the key reasons, i believe, why we've performed so poorly across the year.

There are certainly other reasons of course. Some of which are beyond the player's control such as injury, inexperience, off field shinanigans. I'm not saying it's all to do with just these things. But the above certainly hasn't helped our cause so far.

One of the dangers of a complete rebuild and letting the football and recruiting dept live in a comfortable, cosy , unaccountable place for 4 years is that you don't know if you have the goods or not for 4+ years.

Results to date don't indicate success.

You forgot to add "and some of the posters on here", there are many that have sat back and said just wait it will happen and jumped on anyone that dared to dissent.

The whole club has been in this wonderful "unaccountable place", no other club would allow it to go on like this. Bailey and his "quarters" and all the suckers bought it which allowed him to lose games and avoid criticism as no one actually expected to win anyway. "They're only kids give them time", well now that crunch time has arrived the patient is comatose and the same supporters are saying the same old things. If we are that good and if our kids are that good, which I doubt we should be able to account for sides like Richmond. And if Bailey was in the Box yes we probably would have won the game and maybe the last two as well which would have satisfied the masses and guaranteed another two years of unaccountability.

How many times have we heard it from commentators (usually ex players giving expert commentary) as they watch our games unfold objectively and say??.......

"I wouldn't like to be a forward playing with the Demons at the moment".

In other words, the way we bring the ball in monsters our forward's opportunities and their chances of conversion. And it's not just one or two players. It's our experienced crew, and our not so experienced crew etc. From yesterday.... Jones, Moloney, Scully McKenzie, Martin! No it's not something that happens by just these players, nor every single time they enter the forward line in every match.

We do sometimes hit up a leading target. We do occasionally lower our eyes and find a better option. But i'd sure love to see the 'hail mary' percentage of entries into our forward 50.

If we had a Carey, an Ablett, a Dunstall, a Cloke, or even a Pods. If we had a Betts, a Milne, a Swan or a Stevie Johnson to work off the crumbs and score occasionally from what's left over when the key forward fails to take the big grab, which is quite often the case. Then our 'hail mary' style might actually produce a better conversion rate and i wouldn't be so concerned.

Even Col, with his BOG performance yesterday, either missed the odd target coming in, or failed to look around and lay off to a better positioned running player on a few odd occasions. Jones also missed at least one option coming inside 50 where a player was clearly in a better position to score in that last quarter.

The team things.

The way we bring the ball into the 50 has to change big time if we're sticking with this present line up, or we need to do some serious recruiting to ensure it pays off a little more. Maybe a bit of both.

This and the lack of pressure our forwards bring and our inability to implement an effective workable forward press (and cope with it up the other end in defence) are a few of the key reasons, i believe, why we've performed so poorly across the year.

There are certainly other reasons of course. Some of which are beyond the player's control such as injury, inexperience, off field shinanigans. I'm not saying it's all to do with just these things. But the above certainly hasn't helped our cause so far.

We need good midfielders that can kick and kick well but instead we have these as our core. Jones and Moloney just bang it long without any thought and Jordie and Scully handball it 80% of the time; as Bailey said the forwards can't mark a handball.

Gysberts disposal, when he was in was in, was poor as is Martins' and morton takes 5 minutes to load up his kick, Grimes has been mentioned as a midfielder and his decision making/disposal is also poor, so that leaves Trenners and maybe a couple that i haven't mentioned; yes you'd love to be a Melbourne forward,

You forgot to add "and some of the posters on here", there are many that have sat back and said just wait it will happen and jumped on anyone that dared to dissent.

I don't think the argument was as simple as 'it will happen.'

The whole club has been in this wonderful "unaccountable place", no other club would allow it to go on like this.

Unaccountable for the losses? In 08 and 09 we applauded the losses. Was it 2010 when we became unaccountable?

Bailey and his "quarters" and all the suckers bought it which allowed him to lose games and avoid criticism as no one actually expected to win anyway. "They're only kids give them time", well now that crunch time has arrived the patient is comatose and the same supporters are saying the same old things.

Here is your touchstone - the 'quarters won'...

He failed that measurement - we won't even get to what we won last year. It is the KPIs that was the problem, it was obvious that he couldn't get the players to buy into what he wanted, or didn't push them to improve, or didn't have the right balance of structured defence and flowing attack.

If we are that good and if our kids are that good, which I doubt we should be able to account for sides like Richmond. And if Bailey was in the Box yes we probably would have won the game and maybe the last two as well which would have satisfied the masses and guaranteed another two years of unaccountability.

I will stand by this - the kids are not the problem - they are good enough to take us where we need to go.

The albatross on our ship our the senior players like the frontrunning Moloney, the undisciplined Sylvia, the disappearing Davey, and the embarrassing Green.

I don't think Bailey would have changed anything...

What a strange thing to post. He's gone. And he went with the blessing of a large majority of posters you are trying to tar brush here.

We need good midfielders that can kick and kick well but instead we have these as our core. Jones and Moloney just bang it long without any thought and Jordie and Scully handball it 80% of the time; as Bailey said the forwards can't mark a handball.

Gysberts disposal, when he was in was in, was poor as is Martins' and morton takes 5 minutes to load up his kick, Grimes has been mentioned as a midfielder and his decision making/disposal is also poor, so that leaves Trenners and maybe a couple that i haven't mentioned; yes you'd love to be a Melbourne forward,

I agree with this, i think one of the significant downfalls is the number of midfielders drafted between 03-08, who did we recruit that is in our 22 between this period? Jones, received a trade for Moloney and maybe Sylvia (who plays more HF)...... staggering really

Other players recruited throughout this time are Bate, Dunn, Bartram.....

this is our problem

It all comes down to their attitude (or utter lack there of).....

They reckon much of footy is between the ears !! Weve all seen at various times the skill and ability of much of the team , so it can only go to what they bring to a game in attitude

The misery is that I don't think Richmond are actually better than us, but they played like they wanted it more and it mattered more. So they were successful, today.

Id agree...not much really at all between the levels of football..... other than one side really wanted to play and the other thought they had better ( for some of it )

There seems to be a level of complete contentment within the ranks that this, what we are seeing, is good enough and we can be what we want, when we want to be it. The rub is that this team will continue to be beaten by teams, above and below it, which on any given day, that will actually show more heart, fierceness, determination etc. Maybe our guys just think it will happen without the hard work.

Unfortunately that attitude should be whipped out of them (new coach?) because it is completely heartbreaking to watch players we support, not give the contest the respect it deserves.

Some of us have been saying this for some time. its all too cosey for many at Melbourne

There's so much talk about base camps and climbing mountains that we're soon going to need an altitude coach as well.

Best one this week WJ.

I needed a laugh tonight.

The sad part is the Pies probably have one.

1. Get John Butcher

Prefer Fevola.

Has been one of the few to stand up in several games of late.

One mediocre performance shouldn't warrant a hanging.

Agreed, he played loose on Miller but was punished.

Must be re-signed at the end of the year.

Prefer Fevola.

The only reason that I can see would be cost!

1. Get John Butcher

Prefer Fevola.

Why not both....

Bit of an insurance policy if Fev experiment fails or even if Butcher doesn't work out for some reason (back or other cronic injury).

If however they both work.....we've got a ready made FF in Fev more than likely kicking a decent bag.....and a very nice developing potential CHF (maybe even an A grader) in Butcher, also adding to the score line.

Fev takes some of the heat off our younger brigade for a little while as Butcher, Howe and Watts fill out their bods and mature on the field with much needed game time and pre-seasons. Petterd and Jurrah in the mix as well rotating through!

When Fev eventually retires (i'm assuming we might get say 2 - 3 years if it works out on and off the field), the now matured boys are ready to go it alone in support of each other and bring it, with 60 - 80+ games under their belt.

Watts would probably then be ready to hold down FF (albeit he might be used elsewhere at times i realise) as he and Butcher come into their own around about the time Fev goes. Watts is being used anywhere but a key forward position for most of the match atm anyway. FD can still play him there for short stints regardless, even with Fev there, while Fevs being rested or if injured.

The MFC mantra for mine....

WHATEVER IT TAKES

There's so much talk about base camps and climbing mountains that we're soon going to need an altitude coach as well.

We have one already --- West---at least he should know the directions, if not it should not be hard to learn , East ,South & North...when they get disollusioned.

Prefer Fevola.

Shirley, you can't be serious...

Butcher has his whole career ahead of him, most likely without the headaches.

There's so much talk about base camps and climbing mountains that we're soon going to need an altitude coach as well.

Maybe he can tell them to get in the game.

There's so much talk about base camps and climbing mountains that we're soon going to need an altitude coach as well.

I nominate HighTower!

I nominate HighTower!

Great nomination but he didn't do that well in Ultimate footy.However I can state he is a trier.

I nominate HighTower!

Haha. Boom Boom.

Hey JCB - I had your measure in UF.

I've been away so didn't see the game. But it's worth saying that a sacking of a coach mid-year must affect a club. It affects any other business when the CEO gets the chop (or just chooses to retire) so why should a football team be any different?

In the case of Adelaide it seems it might have released some negative pressure which restricted the players' ability to enjoy the game or play with freedom. For us, perhaps it's just the other way round. With a team bereft of leadership among senior players it's hardly surprising to me that the loss of the coach has resulted in an apparent lack of direction.

On the upside, 2012 will bring a new coach with a new attitude and gameplan (and, hopefully, a better understanding about fitness - I'm convinced our team is not as fit as others). Generally speaking, the same players will be there as now and they are the same players who showed they could play well at times during 2011. So, enough of the despair and let's look forward to a re-invigorated team next year.