or have no alternatives.

Sorry to be negative

But would they be geting a run if Jamar, Davey, Tapscott and Bartrum were available?

Bailey knows we would be more competitive with Petterd, Bate, Dunn... all big bodies and solid campaigners.

However they needed to be taught a lesson. they won't get in the team until they start doing the team things and 1%ers, and in the mean team, 18 yr olds, who clearly won't contribute very much, will go ahead of you.

I've liked the way Bailey and the match committee all year have dropped players who need to be taught a lesson, especially guys like Petterd, Morton and Bennel who have been rightly dropped through the season

or have no alternatives.

Sorry to be negative

But would they be geting a run if Jamar, Davey, Tapscott and Bartrum were available?

Maybe not.

But they are playing with Dunn, Bate, Warnock, Maric, and Petterd available...

If only we'd play the kids for once.

Bailey, say what you like about his coaching (and we do), but he does not show any tendencies toward self-preservation at the selection table.

No Warnock, Bate, Dunn, Petterd, and Maric.

And Evans, Nicholson, Gawn, and Howe in.

Bailey is determined to give those who will be around when we are contenders a start, during what could be, his end.

or you could argue he is just picking the team on form and the best 22 to win

....but I agree, it's bold to stick with four newbies all at once

Maybe not.

But they are playing with Dunn, Bate, Warnock, Maric, and Petterd available...

AS said earlier I doubt they would be getting a run if the injuries list was shorter.

But please lets not lionise Bailey, he has little choice.

And whats to lose at this point.

If the team loses " well we are trying the kids to give them experience"

If we win " see what is just around the corner"

Probably do the same myself.

And for an old cynic like me " could it be worse than the majority of 2011"!

Bailey knows we would be more competitive with Petterd, Bate, Dunn... all big bodies and solid campaigners.

Debatable.

Bailey knows we would be more competitive with Petterd, Bate, Dunn... all big bodies and solid campaigners.

However they needed to be taught a lesson. they won't get in the team until they start doing the team things and 1%ers, and in the mean team, 18 yr olds, who clearly won't contribute very much, will go ahead of you.

I've liked the way Bailey and the match committee all year have dropped players who need to be taught a lesson, especially guys like Petterd, Morton and Bennel who have been rightly dropped through the season

Bate and Dunn need delisting. There time is well and truly up.

Petterd needs to step up the defensive aspect of his game but who on our list doesn't....poor planning and coaching anyone?

Dont get me wrong but I love to see the newbies come in and add a bit of excitement but I have two problems with the team picked.

I don't believe Scully should have been bought in after only one game at Casey. It smacks of desperation of which I know we are but he really only played three quarters and was having his knee iced during the last quarter a good look. I hope I am proved wrong. The second is that if we all so critical of the "game plan" and the teams inability to cope with a press how on earth can we expect anything different with so many new kids in the team. Those that go to Casey games know that the press is not utilised in the VFL. If the older players have struggled with it for over twelve months how can we expect the young kids to be able to either cope with or carry out a press. If Jared Rivers was critical of the lack of organisation in our forward line then I don't know if he/we can expect much better tomorrow/tonight. I am not critical of the FD in picking the younger kids because if they believe our future is with these boys then play them so they can build up a history with the likes of Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Frawley. I am excited to see Gawn and Howe play. I remember thinking during a practice game at Carlton that Howe looked promising. As Gary Lyon said tonight he didnt expect them to win but it was how they played the game that was more important. I believe that the team psyche will alter with the infusion of so many young kids and I hope that they play with the hunger that some of the "older" players seem to have lost. Frawley was right - he is sick of losing so these young boys they don't have that monkey on their back and hopefully will play with the passion that we all have here.

Sorry to be negative

No you're not ... you enjoy it.

AS said earlier I doubt they would be getting a run if the injuries list was shorter.

But please lets not lionise Bailey, he has little choice.

And whats to lose at this point.

If the team loses " well we are trying the kids to give them experience"

If we win " see what is just around the corner"

Probably do the same myself.

And for an old cynic like me " could it be worse than the majority of 2011"!

I don't believe I am 'lionising' Bailey in the same post I mention he could be gone in a few months...

There is no escaping the fact that Dunn could/should do more than Howe tonight but Bailey has chosen the future of the Melbourne Football Club over the short term gain that only he and Lynden would benefit from.

I don't believe I am 'lionising' Bailey in the same post I mention he could be gone in a few months...

There is no escaping the fact that Dunn could/should do more than Howe tonight but Bailey has chosen the future of the Melbourne Football Club over the short term gain that only he and Lynden would benefit from.

I dunno RP, Howe can take an overhead mark and leap off the turf, he has that on Dunn already. Everything I have seen and heard of Howe just resonates AFL footballer to me, I don't want to build him up too much but I reckon he will give us plenty. He strikes me as a guy with confidence too so I think he will be bouncing around early. Here's hoping for an early goal to get his tail up.

That said though playing 2 debutants with a 2 gamer and a 1 gamer in an already very young side puts you in line for a thrashing, so great courage shown by Bailey. A thrashing tonight could go somewhat towards sealing his fate in the minds of some.

I dunno RP, Howe can take an overhead mark and leap off the turf, he has that on Dunn already. Everything I have seen and heard of Howe just resonates AFL footballer to me, I don't want to build him up too much but I reckon he will give us plenty. He strikes me as a guy with confidence too so I think he will be bouncing around early. Here's hoping for an early goal to get his tail up.

That said though playing 2 debutants with a 2 gamer and a 1 gamer in an already very young side puts you in line for a thrashing, so great courage shown by Bailey. A thrashing tonight could go somewhat towards sealing his fate in the minds of some.

Dunn should be doing more than Howe.

It's an indictment on him he isn't an automatic selection at this stage of his career and it is brave of Bailey to give a 20 year old his first game over a 24 year old pro.

Bennel IMO is very skilled and his best asset for me is his ability to work his way through traffic without being tackled.He is superior to any in the team at this skill and reminds a little of the ultimate "Indian Rubber Man" himself the great Robbie Flower (before you get too excited I'm not saying he has anywhere near the footballing ability of Robbie as yet).

What he lacks I believe is a bit more vigour/courage if you like and he needs to be a lot more involved in the play for longer periods.Also a bit more win at all costs mentality that all great players have in common.He is young though and this may come if it clicks with him mentally and he decides what sort of career he wants to have.

I thought his game v Carlton was decent and much better than his previous few weeks where I believe he was gifted a game.He has the ability to be VERY good and it all comes down to how he progresses mentally for me as he has the skills.

it is great we are playing the kids while the men recover from injury...

hopefully this team can fight out a game for 4 qtrs.

Been watching some of Howe's youtube clips in prep for this game. Would love to see him take one of those hangers on debut.

I agree that at the very least we are finally able to get a glimpse of some more youngsters, regardless of the result. I'm expecting this one to be a good contest.

The big thing I will be watching tonight will be the attitide of the team, in particular, the senior blokes.

Imagine, Howe kicks a goal within the first 5 minutes, he'll be pumped. I know Trengove will get around him, I know Watts & Jones will, but I want to see Green do it, Moloney do it, bugger it, I want to see a heap of them do it. Think back to KHunt's goal last week, they had blokes on the bench wanting to run on. That's what I want to see.

I don't care if Green has to run 70 or 80m, I want him to get in there and encourage these kids. Confidence is an amazing thing, it has no ceiling.

Howe will take the occasionaly hanger because he just has that natural athleticism to do so.

But what I really want to see it his work ethic to keep pushing up and down the ground and create a contest down the wing and half forward. I want to see his defensive work, which is supposed to be very good, and I want to see how he helps our structure.

I think he is the type of hard working, mobile marking player that will really help our team in the future. Playing tall or small, but helping to move the slow ball into our forward line.

Howe will take the occasionaly hanger because he just has that natural athleticism to do so.

But what I really want to see it his work ethic to keep pushing up and down the ground and create a contest down the wing and half forward. I want to see his defensive work, which is supposed to be very good, and I want to see how he helps our structure.

I think he is the type of hard working, mobile marking player that will really help our team in the future. Playing tall or small, but helping to move the slow ball into our forward line.

Thanks this is exactly IT, Howe has been chosen because he plays this way imo, works hard, leads back and forth, pressure is good, marks etc

I think he does alot of the non-negotiable things that make a team

I think that, in the past, we have drafted players with talent that we have hoped that we could teach to play this way.

Our last batch of players (Cook, Howe, Davis, McDonald, Evans, Nicholson, Lawrence and Johnston) and probably also the year before, all seem to be doing this stuff from their first year. Maybe a slight switch in recruiting philosophy?

I think in previous years we had the high draft picks so could afford to go for supremely talented players that would take a bit longer.

With the later picks, it's a non-negotiable that they have these qualities.

As Dermie pointed out this morning, we've turned over our whole forward line this week. Newton injured, Bate & Petterd & Maric dropped, Jurrah & Jetta on the bench. The reason is that none of these (except perhaps Newton) put the slightest pressure on their opponents when they had the ball. That goes for Dunn too, who could have been included but wasn't.

The message could not be louder or clearer, in particular for Bate, Dunn, Petterd & Maric. The minimum job requirement for a forward at MFC from now on is to put pressure on your opponent when their side has the ball. If your direct opponent can continually rebound and set up under no pressure, then from now on your AFL career at MFC is on the line.

Those who are selected in the forward line tonight can surely be under no illusion about this. Forward press, zone, or just one-on-one - it doesn't matter, you MUST apply pressure.

On the other hand, I hope that this also means that Bailey has given up on this ridiculous tactic of having nobody forward of centre. If the forwards are expected to gallop up and down the ground to be defenders one second and then somehow get to their forward positions within a second or two of the ball being cleared from defence, then they're never going to have enough in the tank to apply forward pressure once they get there. Bailey needs to let at least 3 or 4 of them stay forward of centre, and they're the ones who will be responsible for forward pressure.