On 13/09/2012 at 00:28, rpfc said:

I don't think having dibs on the hardest player in a generation is being disadvantaged...

We would be looking at the hardest player in the draft with Pick 3 anyway wouldn't we?

I just want to see us draft the best player available. That may be Viney, but if its not, we should pass. I am amazed supporters would advocate putting Viney above the club.

  On 13/09/2012 at 00:35, olisik said:

You got it wrong here. Our compensation is pick #4 and pick#13

If other rules cause us to have to us our first rounder pick #3 then we are down 1 pick. So theoretically our compensation for scully will just be pick #13.

Lose pick #1, get pick #13.

Not fair imho

what ??

Talk about misreading /understanding things

We got 2 1st round picks for that overhyped/overpaid lying piece of mediocrity...Pretty fair in my thinking ( actually ridiculously fair ..lol )

This then put us in our current position of having 2 very early picks and a mid 1st rnd.. Not too shabby.

But somehow in some folks calculations if we spend a high pick on Viney its overs/waste of a Scully pick....yet at the same timeif we use it on another its fine.

Any which way a player will cost you a pick

and any way you want to calculate it our compo is still 4th and 13th.

Some weird maths out there

  On 13/09/2012 at 00:35, olisik said:

You got it wrong here. Our compensation is pick #4 and pick#13

If other rules cause us to have to us our first rounder pick #3 then we are down 1 pick. So theoretically our compensation for scully will just be pick #13.

Lose pick #1, get pick #13.

Not fair imho

huh? Alright I am not too smart but we have pick #3,#4 and #13. Doesnt matter if they are compensation picks, dispensation picks or constipation picks. Whatever the highest bid for Viney is, we have to match or walk away ? We give one pick for one player. Can you explain what is not fair?

  On 13/09/2012 at 00:35, olisik said:

You got it wrong here. Our compensation is pick #4 and pick#13

If other rules cause us to have to us our first rounder pick #3 then we are down 1 pick. So theoretically our compensation for scully will just be pick #13.

Lose pick #1, get pick #13.

Not fair imho

What a way to read that?!

The two circumstances are seperate.

  On 13/09/2012 at 00:35, olisik said:

You got it wrong here. Our compensation is pick #4 and pick#13

If other rules cause us to have to us our first rounder pick #3 then we are down 1 pick. So theoretically our compensation for scully will just be pick #13.

Lose pick #1, get pick #13.

Not fair imho

You've missed my point...

I am not making a direct correlation between the Scully pick and Jack. I am using the Scully compensation as an example of the abundant opportunities we have been afforded to improve.

FFS how many threads are going to be started re JV, it's not that difficult he will be a Dee next year and we will use whatever pick it takes.

If we want Toumpas or O'Rourke than stay away from the Mini draft another Jesse Hogan will pop up next season and if not and we still have plenty of room in the salary cap Patton and Cameron are only signed up to the end of 2013.

Jack Viney at 3 if we have to does not concern me, Fyfe, Rioli, Dangerfield were not rated top 5 now look at them they would all be at least Top 3

Just take him

  On 13/09/2012 at 00:42, Fat Tony said:

I am amazed supporters would advocate putting Viney above the club.

Is that what we are doing?

We have dibs on the hardest player in the draft and that means I am putting the future of the club in jeopardy?

The club will take him at 3 if they have to and they will say he is the best talent at that pick whether he is or not.

The poker play continues, as the binman said above we hold the ability to respond and the fact is that we have the upper hand in that they have to act first. Of we truly don't want to take Jack with pick 3 we don't have to, but they will be the ones running the risk that we want him that badly.

Who will blink first?

You sort of get the impression from some that JV is just an average player whos old man was a Dee

Jack Viney will be one of the most standout impact players weve had in a long long time.

and btw... i hear he eats trolls for breakfast !!!

  On 13/09/2012 at 00:52, Pates said:

The poker play continues, as the binman said above we hold the ability to respond and the fact is that we have the upper hand in that they have to act first. Of we truly don't want to take Jack with pick 3 we don't have to, but they will be the ones running the risk that we want him that badly.

Who will blink first?

and yet ..its really a case of who puts up their hand come F/S night Oct 8... We dont even have to not-blink. We just watch , wait and react acordingly.

We know exactly where we stand after the call.

Jack had me at hello and when he broke his jaw and told the trainer to rack off.

Doesn't matter when we pick him. Who's to say pick 23 won't be the next Nathan Fyfe. Just let it pan out. We should learn from our last attempt at draft fixing that it doesn't lead to success. Just imagine if we'd beaten Richmond and ended up with Martin.

  On 13/09/2012 at 00:49, rpfc said:

Is that what we are doing?

Yes.

The real question we should be asking is whether Viney is better than Whitfield and whoever the second best player in the draft is. If he is there should be no debate. To answer this question you would need to do a full analysis as to what else is out there. Not just watch a few of Viney's games and note he has talent.

And hardness is just one aspect of football. GAJ is not the hardest player in the AFL but he is the best.

Who are the skinniest kids in the top 30?

  On 13/09/2012 at 00:47, rpfc said:

What a way to read that?!

The two circumstances are seperate.

Not really, they are both associated with the draft and our picks.

Theoretically the new F/S rules cancels out our first compensation pick.

Scully came 4th in GWS best and fairest. I am pretty sure he will be worth more then who we pick up at pick #13 this year for a majority of his career. (Yes I am not a fan of him but lets be serious here, he isn't half bad)

  On 13/09/2012 at 01:07, olisik said:

Not really, they are both associated with the draft and our picks.

Theoretically the new F/S rules cancels out our first compensation pick.

Scully came 4th in GWS best and fairest. I am pretty sure he will be worth more then who we pick up at pick #13 this year for a majority of his career. (Yes I am not a fan of him but lets be serious here, he isn't half bad)

he may be better than pick 13 but he won't be better than pick 4

In my opinion a lot of the implied pressure being put on GWS/GC to bid for Jack is coming from other (Victorian) clubs and maybe even AFL House not wanting us to get a free hit by getting Jack in the second round. GWS aren't stupid - they will take Whitfield at #1 and GC will most likely take Toumpas at #2.

If we had pick 9 or 10 this would not be an issue but only having 2 teams that can bid on Jack there is this hysteria that we are getting the steal of the century if neither bid. If that's what happens the other clubs need to suck it up. Who knows, they might be in the same position we are one day.

  On 13/09/2012 at 00:15, Toast said:

It seems to me that some Melbourne supporters have kind of slipped into a welfare mentality where we think we haven't been afforded enough by the system. We want it all but don't want to have to pay for it.

We have been massively overcompensated for Scully, something which we all acknowledge. We've had priority picks and bail outs by the AFL but it's still not enough. Obviously we all hope we can snag young Jack in the second round, but suggestions that we should not take the bloke simply because we have to pay about what his worth is just indicative of the handout mentality we have fallen into.

If you'd told me at the start of the year thy we were going to have the picks we have now I would have laughed at you. Even after all of our failed recruiting and our questionable culture we have an opportunity to capitalise on ANOTHER draft.

We have the opportunity to draft a heart and soul player. The son of a Demon great. We know better than anyone that there are no guarantees come draft time. Viney is the surest thing we've had come our way in a decade and the idea that some people want a bargain more than they want this animal on our side is unfathomable.

Pay up people, I'm going to love watching this bloke play footy and I reckon you are too. Especially alongside his fellow draftees who are bought in under a new regime destined to take this side away from the dark place where we have resided for far too long.

I hope to hell everyone reads this. Perfectly said, Mr Toast.

  On 13/09/2012 at 01:08, Roost It said:

he may be better than pick 13 but he won't be better than pick 4

Yes but pick #4 we would have had anyway if the compensation and f/s rule changes had not been introduced

many will need to consider what are the motives and benefits of the variously involved clubs at this time of year.

Number ONE priority...get the very best for your own club

Numbers 2 though about 10...get teh very best for you own club

Screwing another club tospite your face ?? Not sure its a priority at all.

So in this vein. What are the scenarios? They are formed around what GC and GWS want as best returns for their own needs.

all else follow this

  On 13/09/2012 at 01:12, Clintosaurus said:

In my opinion a lot of the implied pressure being put on GWS/GC to bid for Jack is coming from other (Victorian) clubs and maybe even AFL House not wanting us to get a free hit by getting Jack in the second round. GWS aren't stupid - they will take Whitfield at #1 and GC will most likely take Toumpas at #2.

If we had pick 9 or 10 this would not be an issue but only having 2 teams that can bid on Jack there is this hysteria that we are getting the steal of the century if neither bid. If that's what happens the other clubs need to suck it up. Who knows, they might be in the same position we are one day.

I think Dane Swan/Hawkins/Ablett/Hird/Scarlett/Fyfe/Darling/Sandilands have all been considered 'Steal of the century' at some point.

Even Li Jong might end up being a better steal, 24 possessions against Geelong as a late rookie pickup by the Bulldogs.

Tbo if i was working for GWS/GC recruiting I wouldn't care less what/who other teams can pickup cheap.

  On 13/09/2012 at 00:58, Fat Tony said:

Yes.

GAJ is not the hardest player in the AFL but he is the best.

He'd be in the top 10 of hardest players (I love you Gary)

  On 13/09/2012 at 01:08, Roost It said:

he may be better than pick 13 but he won't be better than pick 4

Send Todd your resume.

If GC bid for Viney at #2 then that is the best indicator out there of his worth in the market. Which means if we get him at #3 then we will have paid unders for him.

I think that if GC bid for him that they will do so as they rate him. If they rate him then I think he would be wroth pick #3.

GC dont come across as the type of team to play games. Their only real benefit of bidding falsely would be to stop GWS from getting pick #3 in minidraft rather then pick #6