Dont read this if you dont like statistics

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,394]

Here is the games played of this weekends starting 22 of teams who are up and coming and consistently compared to us this year.

West Coast 1905

North 1777

Essendon 1605

Richmond 1343

Melbourne 1320*

* 370 of these games of experience are Green and Davey who have offered nothing all year.

Richmond who are allegedly flying have won against Freo in Melbourne, Brisbane and North and a draw to StKilda. Not exactly startling stuff.They have one player injured who would be in their starting 22 (Kevin Moore). I currently count us after half time yesterday having 8 of our starting 22 missing.

Yes there are things not to like about our performances this year, our lack of leaders, our game style or lack thereof but people also need to get a grip and consider that games played and injuries are also a large part of the explanation.

[bing181 9,480]

people also need to get a grip and consider that games played and injuries are also a large part of the explanation.

Nah, that makes too much sense.

[Roost It 1,434]

Good stats. Our problem being that we need to keep improving the players we have. Is that happening at the moment? I'm not sure. We desperately need to sign Scully. We need Blease to start getting games. We need to have a look at Cook, Evans, Nicholson, Howe, Macdonald, Strauss, Gawn and see if we have the makings of a great team. 4 to 5 years away. Patience is required.

[rpfc 29,044]

We are so young, and unlike other clubs, our youth are our 'senior' players.

Who do you think rpfc looks at now when we need leadership onfield?

Moloney, Jamar, Grimes, Trengove, Scully, Jurrah, Petterd, Frawley, Jones, Garland, Bail, and Batram.

Anyone notice the issue here?

The Captain and the Vice-Captain are not there.

The clubs we are competing with as 'middling' sides are aided by their senior players - we are not.

[stuie 7,374]

I don't understand how those stats explain the fact our Captain has gone missing, we are behind the rest of the AFL in a tactical sense, and there is little to no improvement on last year.... Maybe those stats can explain our win/loss record, but they don't defend the way we have played thus far, and THAT is what I think most of us have a problem with, rather than ladder position.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,394]

I don't understand how those stats explain the fact our Captain has gone missing, we are behind the rest of the AFL in a tactical sense, and there is little to no improvement on last year.... Maybe those stats can explain our win/loss record, but they don't defend the way we have played thus far, and THAT is what I think most of us have a problem with, rather than ladder position.

We lack leadership which is a carryover to previous culture. Green/Davey are the last of a soft culture at Melbourne and were poor choices as Captain and VC.

Clearly stated by most coaches that young sides struggle with the application of tactics, structure and strategy. They also struggle with consistency.

Teams that apply structures and strategies well have played lots of games together and have a consistency in their starting 18(low injury count).

We won 8 games last year yet have 3.5 wins a third of the way through the season with a younger side and high injury toll yet by most we have gone drastically backwards..

I dont believe Bailey is the man to take us forwards but the alarmist attitude by some on this site and constant comparison with sides like Richmond, Essendon and West Coast astounds me.

[titan_uranus 25,268]

This is all fair, and truthful, and a contributing factor.

It doesn't, however, excuse a lack of effort. Nor does it explain how we can be so wildly up and down.

Sure, I expect inconsistency, and sure, I expect poor performances, but not to the extent that we have shown, and not as quickly as within six days of one another.

There is plenty going wrong that is in our control.

[45HG 1,559]

This is all fair, and truthful, and a contributing factor.

It doesn't, however, excuse a lack of effort. Nor does it explain how we can be so wildly up and down.

Sure, I expect inconsistency, and sure, I expect poor performances, but not to the extent that we have shown, and not as quickly as within six days of one another.

There is plenty going wrong that is in our control.

Not that I disagree with your last sentence, but those stats explain to me exactly why we are so wildly up and down.

That, coupled with the loss of an AA ruckman in Jamar, Trengove, Grimes, Rivers while also missing two key best 22 players in Mckenzie and Scully not to mention the mid-game losses of Garland and Bail show pretty clearly why we're up and down. IMO anyway.

[Samsara 65]

Richmond are down 40 points to the Dogs late into the 2nd term too...

[titan_uranus 25,268]

Not that I disagree with your last sentence, but those stats explain to me exactly why we are so wildly up and down.

That, coupled with the loss of an AA ruckman in Jamar, Trengove, Grimes, Rivers while also missing two key best 22 players in Mckenzie and Scully not to mention the mid-game losses of Garland and Bail show pretty clearly why we're up and down. IMO anyway.

Like I said, it's not the fact that we're up and down, its the extent to which we are up and down (clearly the down is the problem), and how quickly we are sinking from highs to lows.

Of course, we are going to struggle without Jamar, Grimes, Trengove etc., but it's well documented that North was missing key players yesterday, and we were struggling before Garland and Bail were off the ground. And we still had Moloney, Green, Sylvia, Davey, Frawley, Jurrah and Petterd. About two of which had decent games.

[Jaded No More 68,976]

But I'd rather be depressed dammit!

[Nasher 33,686]

It doesn't, however, excuse a lack of effort. Nor does it explain how we can be so wildly up and down.

I think the very reason young sides are inconsistent is because they can't consistently apply the effort.

[bing181 9,480]

We are so young, and unlike other clubs, our youth are our 'senior' players.

The clubs we are competing with as 'middling' sides are aided by their senior players - we are not.

Nailed it.

[titan_uranus 25,268]

I think the very reason young sides are inconsistent is because they can't consistently apply the effort.

Not in the way we have been. By that I mean players not chasing or tackling hard enough.

It all boils down to a lack of leadership and poor match-day coaching IMO, but whatever you want to blame, I'm not happy with the gap between our best and worst.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,394]

Here is the games played of this weekends starting 22 of teams who are up and coming and consistently compared to us this year.

West Coast 1905

North 1777

Essendon 1605

Richmond 1343

Melbourne 1320*

* 370 of these games of experience are Green and Davey who have offered nothing all year.

Todays team has 1424 combined games due to some experienced inclusions against StKilda's 2383 games.

[jnrmac 20,392]

This is all fair, and truthful, and a contributing factor.

It doesn't, however, excuse a lack of effort. Nor does it explain how we can be so wildly up and down.

Sure, I expect inconsistency, and sure, I expect poor performances, but not to the extent that we have shown, and not as quickly as within six days of one another.

There is plenty going wrong that is in our control.

I agree 100%.

I hate these stats being put up. It's pathetic and part of the club malaise. Excusing poor performances. It sounds like the trip wheeled out every week after a loss. We'll have to re-group, lift our intensity, try harder. No S*** SHerlock!

They tell part of the story but they don't tell about the lack of leadership on field, the lack of intensity, the lack of effort, running, chasing, and tackling. Tell me how many elite skills you need to do that???

If you watched a game you would easily see that we do not spread, present options, gut run, give off and run to another favourable position etc.

I can only conclude you (Big Red FE) are a keyboard wizard who hasn't been to a game.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,394]

I can only conclude you (Big Red FE) are a keyboard wizard who hasn't been to a game.

I have been a member for 23 years and would say in that time have missed attending less than 10 games in Victoria. I dont believe there has been a game in that time I have not viewed. If you want to talk alarmist rubbish without considering the impact of games played then I think it is you that does not understand the game.

Consistency of effort and intensity is the result of games played pure and simple. Our poor leadership is a result of previous poor culture and because those that we are instilling the correct values in are too young to take the labelled positions in the leadership group.

We might come out and win today and win well but we are just as likely to then lose by ten goals next week for the exact same reasons.Do I like watching the rubbish that we have dealt out in patches this year no. Do I accept it no. But I do not ignore the importance of the age of our group and weaknesses in the older players on our list.

Ignore it if you like but it is a key factor in our current performance.

[timD 994]

I agree 100%.

I hate these stats being put up. It's pathetic and part of the club malaise. Excusing poor performances. It sounds like the trip wheeled out every week after a loss. We'll have to re-group, lift our intensity, try harder. No S*** SHerlock!

They tell part of the story but they don't tell about the lack of leadership on field, the lack of intensity, the lack of effort, running, chasing, and tackling. Tell me how many elite skills you need to do that???

If you watched a game you would easily see that we do not spread, present options, gut run, give off and run to another favourable position etc.

I can only conclude you (Big Red FE) are a keyboard wizard who hasn't been to a game.

There are a few conclusions that can be made about you from your post, too, sunshine.

[Harrisonrules 273]

Here is the games played of this weekends starting 22 of teams who are up and coming and consistently compared to us this year.

West Coast 1905

North 1777

Essendon 1605

Richmond 1343

Melbourne 1320*

* 370 of these games of experience are Green and Davey who have offered nothing all year.

Richmond who are allegedly flying have won against Freo in Melbourne, Brisbane and North and a draw to StKilda. Not exactly startling stuff.They have one player injured who would be in their starting 22 (Kevin Moore). I currently count us after half time yesterday having 8 of our starting 22 missing.

Yes there are things not to like about our performances this year, our lack of leaders, our game style or lack thereof but people also need to get a grip and consider that games played and injuries are also a large part of the explanation.

Excuses excuses excuses. That is football. Teams with substance rise above adversity

[Tricky 341]

Excuses excuses excuses. That is football. Teams with substance rise above adversity

When did we become a team with substance?

Additional stats in the context of today's game...

Average Attributes

St Kilda Attribute Melbourne

186.7cm Height 186.4cm

85.9kg Weight 85.3kg

25yr 7mth Age 23yr 8mth

104.2 Games 61.1

Total Players By Games

St Kilda Games Melbourne

5 Less than 50 11

7 50 to 99 6

3 100 to 149 4

7 150 or more 1

Clearly it does not explain the lack of leadership and form from players like Davey, but to ignore them completely is irrational.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,394]

Todays team has 1424 combined games due to some experienced inclusions against StKilda's 2383 games.

Because I know you all love it. Tonights team versus Blues has a grand total of 1297 games experience compared to Carlton's 1995. Not that it matters though....

[Adzman 2,154]

I love stats, but have you ever heard the saying "Numbers lie and liars hide behind numbers"

[timD 994]

Wrath, how about not hiding behind metaphor and hyperbole and saying what you think?

Then no-one is hiding behind nuthin'.

[old55 23,867]

Because I know you all love it. Tonights team versus Blues has a grand total of 1297 games experience compared to Carlton's 1995. Not that it matters though....

Wow 1297, that's getting down there. Wonder what the record low is and what our record low is? Anyone got access to that data?

[Nasher 33,686]

I love stats, but have you ever heard the saying "Numbers lie and liars hide behind numbers"

Yeah. These lying numbers are saying we're grossly under experienced at present, but we're not. We're a hardened, seasoned side with loads of experience and loads of leadership. I'm changing my tip: Melbourne by 150.