Where are we REALLY at right now ??

[plg31ni 2]

We seem to have a better list than we have had for quite a while but to me do not seem to be performing as well as we should be.. We won last week playing only 2 quarters.. I expect more grit and determination from the team I have supported for over fifty years... I am NOT convinced we have arrived yet.. less hype and MORE wins please.. We played a better kind of game last year when we killed the Swans, drew and lost to Collingwood and one or two other games whebn we seemed to really attack the ball at all costs for four quaters. I was looking forward to this year on that basis... We haven't made it yet..Let's see how we perform in the West in round 6 ??? I LOVE the DEEs, but they have been frustrating to support since 1964 !!!!! Others fall behind but then get up and win flags before we even look like it ..

[Vipercrunch 2,827]

I agree. We are yet to come close to some of the form we showed last year which is very dissappointing. Our injury list is very small and can not be used as any excuse whatsoever. Perhaps there is a reason why we are yet to match, let alone improve on last year but it is a little concerning.

I am happy to wait for the success, but would prefer to see things going forward, not backwards.

[plg31ni 2]

I agree. We are yet to come close to some of the form we showed last year which is very dissappointing. Our injury list is very small and can not be used as any excuse whatsoever. Perhaps there is a reason why we are yet to match, let alone improve on last year but it is a little concerning.

I am happy to wait for the success, but would prefer to see things going forward, not backwards.

Cocerning and at this point in time a little disappointing.... Yet again.!!!. I can never feel confident we are heading anywhere but where we have been for a while.. I only hope for the sake of our dedicated supporters and thet wonderful gentleman Jim Stynes that we can show vast improvement this year. We as long time Supporters of the club should not now settle for anything less than top eight this year and without wanting to be a pessimist I am not seeing that happening at the moment. I HATE watching Melbourne players taking a "side" step when an opposing player is running at them.. I am so sorry, but I have seen that too often with us already this year and if I become angry enough before long I will start naming particular incidents (if that is allowed on this site) which can be seen quite clearly on the recorded replays.Our players need a little more "DEMON" in them at times. I know we have the ability to really make a mark this year and can only hope we execute the correct "game" plan and go out on that ground each week giving our all for the Club we represent.. I hate the taunts from supporters from other clubs such as "Melbourne are soft" "your coach is a dud because players do not seem to be inspired" Until we prove ourselvesby becoming a force in the AFL, then I have nothing to throw back at them. The proof is in WINNING !!! No other way

[PaulRB 6,361]

We are building synergy between team mates through them playing games together. Only way to improve. Watch Trengove and Tapscott or Wonna and Liam and you'll see them anticipating and supporting each other. The backline had it in stages last year also. We're good at the moment, can only play and beat those teams you face (same situation the Doggies and Blues have had this season). Gotta be patient and enjoy the glimpses as they become more common and the team lifts...

We're in the 8, few injuries.

Enjoy the Bye, then bring on the Weagles...

[Guest watts04]

we are average

im a bailey fan but not convinced the players want to walk over hot coals for him

alot of players are inconsistent and our performances and game plan has questions

for me its the football department under pressure and with a minimal injury list, the next 6 weeks are vital to perform more consistently and at a higher level

[bing181 9,218]

I am NOT convinced we have arrived yet..

You were expecting us to?

Maybe in 2013 we'll start to "arrive", but until then, there are going to be lots of ups. And downs.

[Deetective Sgt. Taggert 389]

How many more of these threads do we need to start? Most of us are not satisfied with the performances to date which is fair enough but it's too early to gauge where the team is at this stage of the season (FWIW I think the loss of two critical senior players and a backline coach is having a bigger impact than many expected but I assume this will be overcome as the season wears on)

Edited April 20, 2011 by Ascobar

[rpfc 28,379]

We are amongst about 5 teams aiming for 8th.

We are not a good team and we be will shown to be so in games this year.

I don't really know why people thought we would suddenly be pushing the top 6.

Coll, Geel, Haw, Freo, Carl, and WB are way better than us, and I think StK is too (unsure). We are a lot closer to Brisbane than we are to the first 6 teams I mentioned.

"But rpfc, it's not the wins and losses but HOW we play."

Sure it is...

[Allen Jakovich 516]

We are a team that has won a very small percentage of games over the last four years who has a talented but incredibly in-experienced list and coaching staff.

We are not going to be top four overnight.

If we make the 8, even 6, then it'll be a marked improvement, but to expect it is folly.

Please see my sig for more info...

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Bailey's a genius...

He's been slowly working the players into a position to play 4 quarters. He knows the sub rule is going to kill off lists that start the season in 5th gear with their foot flat to the floor, like Essendon and Geelong. Bailey is the Bart Cummings of Aussie Rules. He's going to have the dees up and firing in the middle and latter part of the year where it counts, with a next-to-full list, with plenty of energy, while the other sides wilt under the pressure of the new sub rule...

;)

[Samsara 65]

We are amongst about 5 teams aiming for 8th.

We are not a good team and we be will shown to be so in games this year.

I don't really know why people thought we would suddenly be pushing the top 6.

Coll, Geel, Haw, Freo, Carl, and WB are way better than us, and I think StK is too (unsure). We are a lot closer to Brisbane than we are to the first 6 teams I mentioned.

"But rpfc, it's not the wins and losses but HOW we play."

Sure it is...

A good summary of where we are at I reckon. Can't see us being a real force for 2 - 3 years at least, and that is depending on keeping our current list and developing it. One or two players might go through injury/trade/GWS etc but hopefully this is kept to a minimum.

[Samsara 65]

We are a team that has won a very small percentage of games over the last four years who has a talented but incredibly in-experienced list and coaching staff.

We are not going to be top four overnight.

If we make the 8, even 6, then it'll be a marked improvement, but to expect it is folly.

Please see my sig for more info...

Ha ha, I doubt we'll win four on the trot my friend. In fact, I would be happy with just one in the next 4 to 5 years but I haven't really come to associated this club with success.

[dee-luded 2,959]

We seem to have a better list than we have had for quite a while but to me do not seem to be performing as well as we should be.. We won last week playing only 2 quarters.. I expect more grit and determination from the team I have supported for over fifty years... I am NOT convinced we have arrived yet.. less hype and MORE wins please.. We played a better kind of game last year when we killed the Swans, drew and lost to Collingwood and one or two other games whebn we seemed to really attack the ball at all costs for four quaters. I was looking forward to this year on that basis... We haven't made it yet..Let's see how we perform in the West in round 6 ??? I LOVE the DEEs, but they have been frustrating to support since 1964 !!!!! Others fall behind but then get up and win flags before we even look like it ..

This is how I see it, as to where we are at.

2007 > list sort

2008 > List build

2009 > List build

2010 > List build/development

2011 > development/ladder improvement

2012 > development/ladder improvement

2013 > Top 6

Last year we had a list with some players who were as good as they could be. The older of this group finished at the club.

Rollout 2011, and we have a more talented list, but mostly kids now with few games under their collective belts. Compare to GC suns who have as much talent, but little experience. We're ahead of them by about 2 years.

Essendon have not scraped the barrell of their list, have many topline players in Fletcher, Hille, Watson, Ryder, and a young champ in Hurley... All Big Bodied players who can impose on the games.

Our most senior players are in order of most games played > Green, Davey, Moloney, Rivers, Sylvia, Jamar, Macdonald, Jones, then Bartram on 84 games. We are coming off scraping the bottom of our barrell and hitting rock bottom, are now in teaching mode for the basic AFL skills onfield.

I think we'll finish around 9th.

Thats not too bad with so many kids being brought on together in one group. Some are timid types. When they click, it will be quick, as they're learning together with around the same No of games played.

[old dee 23,787]

We seem to have a better list than we have had for quite a while but to me do not seem to be performing as well as we should be.. We won last week playing only 2 quarters.. I expect more grit and determination from the team I have supported for over fifty years... I am NOT convinced we have arrived yet.. less hype and MORE wins please.. We played a better kind of game last year when we killed the Swans, drew and lost to Collingwood and one or two other games whebn we seemed to really attack the ball at all costs for four quaters. I was looking forward to this year on that basis... We haven't made it yet..Let's see how we perform in the West in round 6 ??? I LOVE the DEEs, but they have been frustrating to support since 1964 !!!!! Others fall behind but then get up and win flags before we even look like it ..

I am a similar vintage and the above expresses it well.

After all these years it is hard to be Patient when you have been for 46 years.

However When I look at our side I see a lot of guys with less than 20 games and quite a few with less than 10.

So am I expecting too much? probably!

The way we are playing so far this year suggests our season will be over at the end of August.

I have rationalised that 8-9 wins is probably the max so I just need to enjoy 6 more this year.

I guess I will have to live a bit longer as a GF win seems to be as far away as ever.

[H_T 3,043]

we are average

im a bailey fan but not convinced the players want to walk over hot coals for him

Not many have.

Well, there was one, Nigel Smart.

Yep. He was prudent.

edit: btw we are at base camp, but in the game for the OP.

[old dee 23,787]

Bailey's a genius...

He's been slowly working the players into a position to play 4 quarters. He knows the sub rule is going to kill off lists that start the season in 5th gear with their foot flat to the floor, like Essendon and Geelong. Bailey is the Bart Cummings of Aussie Rules. He's going to have the dees up and firing in the middle and latter part of the year where it counts, with a next-to-full list, with plenty of energy, while the other sides wilt under the pressure of the new sub rule...

;)

DD "Bailey is the Bart Cummings of Aussie rules"

My god I hope you are right but something tells me you forgot to take off your Rose Glasses!

However dreaming never hurts you I suppose.

Edited April 20, 2011 by old dee

[Geddy Lee 582]

It's been a completely bizarre start to the season.

We still haven't played well and we're seventh on the ladder.

There is a lot of pain to come, and I mean A LOT, if we don't (coaches AND players) pull our fingers out.

Edited April 20, 2011 by Geddy Lee

[Theo 272]

This is how I see it, as to where we are at.

2007 > list sort

2008 > List build

2009 > List build

2010 > List build/development

2011 > development/ladder improvement

2012 > development/ladder improvement

2013 > Top 6

Last year we had a list with some players who were as good as they could be. The older of this group finished at the club.

Rollout 2011, and we have a more talented list, but mostly kids now with few games under their collective belts. Compare to GC suns who have as much talent, but little experience. We're ahead of them by about 2 years.

Essendon have not scraped the barrell of their list, have many topline players in Fletcher, Hille, Watson, Ryder, and a young champ in Hurley... All Big Bodied players who can impose on the games.

Our most senior players are in order of most games played > Green, Davey, Moloney, Rivers, Sylvia, Jamar, Macdonald, Jones, then Bartram on 84 games. We are coming off scraping the bottom of our barrell and hitting rock bottom, are now in teaching mode for the basic AFL skills onfield.

I think we'll finish around 9th.

Thats not too bad with so many kids being brought on together in one group. Some are timid types. When they click, it will be quick, as they're learning together with around the same No of games played.

Connolly talks about getting games into players and when they hit the magical 100 games watch out because we will be in our premiership window. I don't believe it, we keep recruiting light bodied (ectomorph) types that will never bulk up to the point of competing with the top clubs. Even our tall players ie. Rivers, Garland, Cook, Watts, Fitzpatrick, Gawn will never intiimdate the opposition on size alone.

We really need some mentally strong, win at all costs types that have strong frames to build on (endomorph). Only then will the smaller players stand tall knowing thay have a few enforcers in the team. I really don't think we have the balance right. Connolly said on TAC Cup All-Stars last year on CH9 that Jack Fitzpatrick will be a great Melbourne player of the future. Yeah right.

I think we are a long way off the mark at present, although it may only take a few good recruits to make the balance right.

To me the recruiting over the last decade and more has been hit and miss and before you berate me on this comment why have we only played in one Grand final since 1964. Even in 2000 who thought we would beat Essendon. They blew us off the park because they were more aggressive, bigger and stronger.

In 2011 are we bigger and stronger and agressive, NO. Nothing much has changed in my eyes.

Just wait for the excuses from the Club when we don't make the top four in 2013-14.

[DemonWA 3,932]

i think we've achieved the win/loss record that most would have expected, but our performances havent set the worls alight. We won the two games we really thought we should win (Bris/GC), we drew the one we thought might be 50-50 (swans), and lost against the hawks who are better than us.

The test (IMO) is to see how we go against the eagles who are in decent form. They got the spoon last year, and at the start of the year this was a game we would have hoped to win...

[Tony Tea 2,809]

Never trust an ectomorph. Right, Caesar?

Let me have men about me that are fat;

Sleek-headed men and such as sleep o' nights:

Yond Cassius has a lean and hungry look;

He thinks too much: such men are dangerous.

[titan_uranus 24,991]

Look at it from both sides.

On the one hand, we're not in form, we're not playing well, we're not showing too many signs of improvement on last year.

On the other hand, we've got 2 wins and a draw from four games with the aforementioned faults, which mean we have room to improve.

[DeeSpencer 25,669]

In 2011 are we bigger and stronger and agressive, NO. Nothing much has changed in my eyes.

Just wait for the excuses from the Club when we don't make the top four in 2013-14.

I don't want any more excuses so I agree with the first bit of your post (that I haven't quoted), but I don't think being bigger and more aggressive necessarily gets you far. Collingwood have 2 big boys upfront but besides that probably only have a few players (Swan, Ball, O'Brien, Maxwell) in the rest of the ground who are strong aggressive players. A 22 who all go hard at the ball and are collectively strong is more important. We need the big key forwards and Watts and Cook are the hope there and I'm willing to wait, but I'm not worried about the rest of the ground. Frawley, Rivers, Tapscott, Trengove, Moloney, Sylvia - we've got our share. We don't need a team of big units, rather a team of 22 who don't shirk the issue.

Our major problems right now are:

1. Lack of big forwards - As mentioned above this will take time

2. The players are a bit confused by the game plan. I know this as a fact. This should be resolved quickly and is not acceptable. You can have a bad game plan but to have one the players haven't mastered is very average coaching.

3. An inexperienced midfield. The loss of McDonald has hurt us especially considering we've got Scully and McKenzie out (and until recently Morton). Moloney is up and about but Gysberts is very fresh, Bail is new to tagging/the centre square at AFL level, Sylvia is probably best suited in midfield bursts and Trengove is hardly a veteran.

4. The whole ground defence hasn't been good enough. This is linked to the first 3 points. We need bigger forwards, a sharper game plan and a more experienced midfield to get this spot on, but it needs to lift quickly.

[H_T 3,043]

All valid points the master and I've stated as much in other threads - with the exception of point 2 about the confused bit, I think it's more execution. However, it will not lift quickly on a consistent basis. Even though that will be the aim.

[Guest Gotzy15]

I would say were pretty close to being in the top 8 sides in the comp maybe just outside but really there is absolutely no excuse for us not to make the finals this year when you look at our draw and some other aspects.

- We play 17/22 games in Victoria.

- We play Collingwood, St Kilda, Geelong, Essendon, Adelaide, Fremantle and Western Bulldogs and our bogey team North only once.

- We play Gold Coast, Richmond, West Coast (ignore the hype theyve only just beaten North and Adelaide) and Port all twice (that really should be 8 wins)

- At this stage we really only have Tom Scully injured out of our best 22 and hes due back mid season.

- We were in the hunt for a finals berth last year and just missed out after a poor last 3 games.

THERE IS NO EXCUSE THIS YEAR!!We have been down for long enough (4 years now) where we have rebuilt our list, Football department and structures from the bottom up. Our kids Trengove, Scully, Grimes, Jurrah, Gysberts, Frawley, Morton etc have all played enough footy together now to understand each others games and have shown they can perform well on the big stage and play really good football (Collingwood games last year,Bulldogs game etc) As i keep saying we have to be realistic as to where were at but we cant keep making excuses when we play poorly or dont put a solid 4 quarter effort together. Thats why im still not sold on Bailey and his coaching staff as i think we have great kids and some really solid experienced players (Green, Sylvia, Beamer, Russian etc) and we should really be becoming a force in the comp again. The finals is our pass mark for this year.

[Guest Gotzy15]

i think we've achieved the win/loss record that most would have expected, but our performances havent set the worls alight. We won the two games we really thought we should win (Bris/GC), we drew the one we thought might be 50-50 (swans), and lost against the hawks who are better than us.

The test (IMO) is to see how we go against the eagles who are in decent form. They got the spoon last year, and at the start of the year this was a game we would have hoped to win...

I also think this is a great post DemonWa. We really are exactly where we should be at this stage but we must make significant improvements in the coming weeks to maintain our ladder position. Our next game against West Coast in perth i think is a must win. If were going to be a force we really should beat the spooners from last year especially when theyre missing their best player and all australian LeCras, Masten and Mitch Brown