On 18/02/2011 at 05:14, old55 said:

Our new facilities enable us to stay in player retention hunt with the advent of GC, GWS and Free Agency. If we were still at the Junction we'd be screwed. North have gone "California or bust" by choosing to stay in Melbourne rather than go to GC and having done that they have to be aggressive to make it work. They have done the only thing they could realistically do by going into further debt to renew their facilities and increase spending on their FD - they'd be unable to retain talent if they were still in the burnt out portables. The interest on the debt is a yoke we have removed but they have to carry. The salary cap means North is not in a worse position than us - provided they can continue to pay 100% and the AFL doesn't demand that they cut back as a condition of the extra AFL funding they receive. The AFL needs 18 teams for 9 games to maximise broadcast revenue - North is guaranteed to survive the next 5 years - somewhere.

Fair points 55 and you could well be right, but with that debt North have (and it is growing) the interest payments are going to hurt them with a small supporter base. That includes Etihad Stadium Stadium deals etc etc.

i can only see it getting harder for them, unless they clear that debt.

The North Attendance stats this year i believe will seal their fate. Their supporters know well the situation right now, if they do not turn up in 2011 i can only see darkness for the Kangaroos ,at least in victoria.

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:21, nutbean said:

Paying over market is such a subjective thing - based on how Woey plateau'ed we paid over the odds for his last contract - he never really improved from his brownlow year in fact he was less damaging probably due to the extra attention he received - but lets look at Greeny who also held out for a better deal on his last contract his first year into his new contract - fabulous and now he is captain and has really stepped up a gear.

Has Carlton overpaid for Judd ? - probably not on the basis of his first two years performance.

A crystal ball would a handy addition to my armoury

Touched on that in another post.

We will 'underpay' Frawley in a couple years time.

And as with most things in footy - it is up to subjective interpretation.

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:16, Fork said:

Correct .

If we do what we've always done , we'll get what we've always gotten .

We have only overpaid those that havent performed to the expected level and unfortunately that has been a few too many.

Davey also held out for more coin last contract but we havent complained about him as he has provided good value. We complained about Cam Bruce because we dont think he did give value for money. Subjective and requires crystal balls.

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:21, rpfc said:

But when you are in a 'false economy' like the one we find ourselves with GWS - you have to pay more than you want to.

I'm sure that Frawley at 25 when he is on the same he is on at 22 will be paid 'under market.'

I'd leave it to Tim Harrington to sort out, they would have thought about this.

I don't know the stats but we must have near the most top 5 picks. We have talent, and that talent means demand, and that demand means we will be handing over a lot of dead presidents.

I realise that term is american, I just like it.

Carlton would give us a run

Brock McLean - 5

Andrew Walker - 2

Bryce Gibbs - 1

Marc Murphy - 1

Chris Judd - 3

Matthew Kreuzer - 1

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:21, rpfc said:

But when you are in a 'false economy' like the one we find ourselves with GWS - you have to pay more than you want to.

I'm sure that Frawley at 25 when he is on the same he is on at 22 will be paid 'under market.'

I'd leave it to Tim Harrington to sort out, they would have thought about this.

I don't know the stats but we must have near the most top 5 picks. We have talent, and that talent means demand, and that demand means we will be handing over a lot of dead presidents.

I realise that term is american, I just like it.

Correct. These 2 new teams have shifted the Goal Posts. Some players will be over payed for their next contract. Some won't. That's Business

The Market will settle down in a few years, but we must stay aggressive without going overboard-there is always a limit.

But we will pay top $$ for our Guns to stay with us.

"No Pain No Gain"

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:25, rpfc said:

Touched on that in another post.

We will 'underpay' Frawley in a couple years time.

And as with most things in footy - it is up to subjective interpretation.

maybe ! what if he doesnt recover from the injury ? subjective subjective subjective - but I do think we are on the same page.

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:32, nutbean said:

maybe ! what if he doesnt recover from the injury ? subjective subjective subjective - but I do think we are on the same page.

Careful. Talk like that will start another handwringing thread.

  On 17/02/2011 at 12:52, Keyser Söze said:

Tom MacDonald and Troy Davis are about the same size & same hair colour so a few of the guys reckon they are like twins.

Davo has missed a bit of time with illness but should be back up to speed soon.

Michael Evans was a steal.

Keyser thanks for the report or update etc.. very enlightening.

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:29, e25 said:

Carlton would give us a run

Brock McLean - 5

Andrew Walker - 2

Bryce Gibbs - 1

Marc Murphy - 1

Chris Judd - 3

Matthew Kreuzer - 1

Scully, Watts - 1

Trengove - 2

Sylvia - 3

Morton - 4

I said nearly...

F..., Carlton should be better than they are...

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:38, rpfc said:

Scully, Watts - 1

Trengove - 2

Sylvia - 3

Morton - 4

I said nearly...

F..., Carlton should be better than they are...

Exactly what I was thinking.

I thought they'd break even with us, but...

Yarran was pick 6 too

OMG I have just heard from an impeccable source that Tom has just bought a house in Western Sydney.

Apparently he spent one weeks wage ($40,000) on a fibro shack which he intends to knock down and build a McMansion.

We're all doomed.

(1262 posts and counting)

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:48, jnrmac said:

OMG I have just heard from an impeccable source that Tom has just bought a house in Western Sydney.

Apparently he spent one weeks wage ($40,000) on a fibro shack which he intends to knock down and build a McMansion.

We're all doomed.

(1262 posts and counting)

"The sky is falling , The sky is falling" - Chicken Little

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:21, nutbean said:

Paying over market is such a subjective thing - based on how Woey plateau'ed we paid over the odds for his last contract - he never really improved from his brownlow year in fact he was less damaging probably due to the extra attention he received

Fact - Woey signed a contract based on a Grand FInal year, Brownlow medal year, the new TV rights deal had just been inked (salaries going through the roof) and Freo trying to sign Woey and Farmer.

Not Woey's fault he became our highest paid player in 2001.

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:52, jnrmac said:

Fact - Woey signed a contract based on a Grand FInal year, Brownlow medal year, the new TV rights deal had just been inked (salaries going through the roof) and Freo trying to sign Woey and Farmer.

Not Woey's fault he became our highest paid player in 2001.

Gotta pay someone.

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:55, rpfc said:

Gotta pay someone.

GPS indeed.

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:47, e25 said:

Exactly what I was thinking.

I thought they'd break even with us, but...

Yarran was pick 6 too

Judd was effectively traded for pick 3 AND 4 also

but McLean shouldnt count he is a pick 11

  On 17/02/2011 at 23:19, Good Times Grimes said:

If I remember correctly, Bailey was certain that Bruce would be a Demon this year. Although I am quite sure Scully will remain a Demon, I wouldn't take great comfort in what Bailey says. I'm waiting to hear from Scully himself, but I don't expect this to happen until the end of the season.

IF,,, Sheedy Had Signed Scully, Already,,,, Then to my mind, he would Not fireup Rumours, that say Scully had signed,,,, But, he would be concerned to keep Scully away from too much pressure, so he could develop his game normally.

This says to me, that they Have offered a big contract to young Tom, But that it is not signed, YET.

So how does a GWS official, then try to get Tom to sign on????? Well, lets try to make the Melbourne supporters, make Tom feel so under the pump,,,, that he'll hate it there enough, to decide to take the money and make the change.

How do we do this??? Lets make the Dees supporters, eat there own. We'll put the rumours out there, then we'll pour on petrol, to the rumours.

???Melbourne supporters,,, Watts the antidote?????

Ans ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------...

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:52, jnrmac said:

Fact - Woey signed a contract based on a Grand FInal year, Brownlow medal year, the new TV rights deal had just been inked (salaries going through the roof) and Freo trying to sign Woey and Farmer.

Not Woey's fault he became our highest paid player in 2001.

Not saying it was Woey's fault at all - all I am saying is that whether we overpaid or underpaid can be judged on the return we get and this can only be judged after the event.

Let me go way back in time - we got value out of Peter Moore and way overpaid for Kelvin Templeton - who knew at the time ?

Over at the new GWS supporter site GIANTOLOGY, they reckon the Scully story was a ruse - NO FELAFEL FOR TOM SCULLY

  On 17/02/2011 at 22:40, sylvinator said:

Scully (and his management's) attitude does not sit right with me one bit.

How do you know what Tom's (or his management's) attitude is?

Conjecture, surely. Given that Tom has said nothing at all, and his management have put out a fairly detailed release detailing the situation, just not sure what reactions like this are based on.

  On 18/02/2011 at 05:52, jnrmac said:

Fact - Woey signed a contract based on a Grand FInal year, Brownlow medal year, the new TV rights deal had just been inked (salaries going through the roof) and Freo trying to sign Woey and Farmer.

Not Woey's fault he became our highest paid player in 2001.

True, however when a contract goes up the expecations also go up at the same rate. While it was great for a couple of years that it got him some cash it effectively ruined his career because from that time onwards it was expected that he continued to perform at that level. History shows that for a number of reasons he couldn't, both at Melbourne and Collingwood.

The whole Woey saga was just incredibly sad, he should have finished his career at Melbourne and with hindsight the downhill slide started with that massive contract his manager won.

I suppose there's a point to this post...oh yeah, that's it. If Scully signs a $1m a year contract over 5 or 6 years, the pressure on him to immediately produce the goods at GWS will be absolute enormous, what Woey experienced will pale into insignificance in comparison. That would be a huge amount of pressure for a young player to deal with who is still developing.

This thread, i tell you what, it's like watching a train wreck; you know it's going to be bad but you just can't help yourself.

  On 18/02/2011 at 06:23, Jarka said:

True, however when a contract goes up the expecations also go up at the same rate. While it was great for a couple of years that it got him some cash it effectively ruined his career because from that time onwards it was expected that he continued to perform at that level. History shows that for a number of reasons he couldn't, both at Melbourne and Collingwood.

The whole Woey saga was just incredibly sad, he should have finished his career at Melbourne and with hindsight the downhill slide started with that massive contract his manager won.

I suppose there's a point to this post...oh yeah, that's it. If Scully signs a $1m a year contract over 5 or 6 years, the pressure on him to immediately produce the goods at GWS will be absolute enormous, what Woey experienced will pale into insignificance in comparison. That would be a huge amount of pressure for a young player to deal with who is still developing.

This thread, i tell you what, it's like watching a train wreck; you know it's going to be bad but you just can't help yourself.

We are actually agreeing except the downslide did not start with the contract his manager won - his downslide started with him playing up to expection of the massive contract - whether that is fair or not is the question and has been debated endlessly here.

Judd signed the most massive of contracts - he is performing. Playing to expectations - thats the difference. But remember his first 2 months where he was unfit there was some unkind articles both on his performance and Carlton overpaying.

Subjective and retrospective

  On 18/02/2011 at 06:23, Jarka said:

True, however when a contract goes up the expecations also go up at the same rate. While it was great for a couple of years that it got him some cash it effectively ruined his career because from that time onwards it was expected that he continued to perform at that level. History shows that for a number of reasons he couldn't, both at Melbourne and Collingwood.

The whole Woey saga was just incredibly sad, he should have finished his career at Melbourne and with hindsight the downhill slide started with that massive contract his manager won.

I suppose there's a point to this post...oh yeah, that's it. If Scully signs a $1m a year contract over 5 or 6 years, the pressure on him to immediately produce the goods at GWS will be absolute enormous, what Woey experienced will pale into insignificance in comparison. That would be a huge amount of pressure for a young player to deal with who is still developing.

This thread, i tell you what, it's like watching a train wreck; you know it's going to be bad but you just can't help yourself.

Woewodin came 2nd on Collingwood’s best and fairest in 2004. I think he had a better career than most remember. 2000 was great, but he also had a few other good years. Played 200 games.

I think his treatment by Melbourne was disgraceful, and is one reason why they should not offer ridiculous money to any young player on the list.

SADLY THIS WAS THE LAST PHOTO OF PAUL THE ORACLE OCTOPUS TAKEN SECONDS BEFORE HIS SUDDEN AND MYSTERIOUS DEATH RECENTLY WHEN ABOUT TO MAKE A PREDICTION. PAUL WAS COMMISSIONED BY AUSTRALIAN MEDIA GURU MR EDDIE MCGUIRE TO HELP SOLVE AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALLS BIGGEST CONTROVERSY BEING THE INTENTIONS OF BUDDING SUPERSTAR TOM "SKULL" SCULLY.

JUST AFTER THIS PHOTO WAS TAKEN, THE LIGHTS WENT OUT AND THE ACQUARIUM WENT DARK CAUSING PANIC AMONGST THE GATHERED MEDIA THRONG AND TOURISTS PRESENT.

WHEN POWER WAS RESTORED PAUL WAS FOUND TO BE LYING ON HIS BACK AT THE BOTTOM OF HIS TANK WITH FOREIGN MATTER PROTRUDING FROM HIS MOUTH. IMMEDIATE FIRST AID FAILED TO REVIVE HIM AND HE WAS PRONOUNCED DEAD ON ARRIVAL TO HOSPITAL. FORENSIC EXPEXTS HAVE INDICATED THAT PAUL MAY HAVE CHOKED ON WHAT APPEARS TO BE A FALAFEL. MYSTERIOUS GREESY PAPER WAS ALSO FOUND ON THE FLOOR NEAR PAULS TANK WITH A WESTERN SYDNEY TAKE AWAY SHOP ADDRESS PRINTED ON IT.

POLICE HAVE ALSO RELEASED A SKETCH BASED ON EYEWITNESS ACCOUNTS OF A PERSON OF INTEREST WHO WAS SEEN LEAVING THE ACQUARIUM IN A HURRY AND DRIPPING WATER AFTER HIM. DESCRIBED AS A STOCKY CAUCASIAN MALE 180CM TALL AGED ABOUT 70 WHO WAS MUTTERING TO HIMSELF AND WEARING MOCCASINS. GERMAN POLICE HAVE PUT OUT AN INTERPOL ALERT AS THIS PERSON MAY BE UNPREDICTABLE AND DANGEROUS. ANYONE SEEING A PERSON THAT FITS THIS DESCRIPTION ARE ASKED TO NOT APPROACH HIM DIRECTLY AND TO CONTACT POLICE ASAP.

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  On 17/02/2011 at 12:52, Keyser Söze said:

Tom MacDonald and Troy Davis are about the same size & same hair colour so a few of the guys reckon they are like twins.

Davo has missed a bit of time with illness but should be back up to speed soon.

Michael Evans was a steal.

I was very happy when they selected Evans he looks the goods, might be one that slipped through.