The answer to the Billy Stretch at training question - Draft prospects head to AFL clubs

Who is Angus Brayshaw?

Mark Brayshaw's son.

The answer to the Billy Stretch at training question - Draft prospects head to AFL clubs

If he's nominated in the first round he can kiss his dream goodbye, hes skinnier than what Morton was and I think we can safely say we will get him in the second round if PR wants him.

If he's nominated in the first round he can kiss his dream goodbye, hes skinnier than what Morton was and I think we can safely say we will get him in the second round if PR wants him.

10 months until trade week starts, the kid hasn't played a game in 2014 and we are already aren't willing to give up our first round pick which at the moment is between 1-18.

If he's nominated in the first round he can kiss his dream goodbye, hes skinnier than what Morton was and I think we can safely say we will get him in the second round if PR wants him.

It's all about ladder position. But as North found with Luke McDonald this year it's not always a case of finishing lower on the ladder meaning you'll get better value for your F/S selection.

I have a hard enough time picking what exact order I'd draft kids when it's a week before the draft and we have film, physical measurements and media commentary on all of them. It's way to early to declare Stretch a steal if we got him in round 2 or a waste if we have to use a first rounder on him. All I know is that father sons can be great value and are also good for the footy club and supporters as a whole.

What I will say is that we are in the Paul Roos era of development and the Jason Taylor era of recruiting. It's about time we give up this idea that skinny kids are no good. Fyfe, Wingard, Lewis Jetta, Kieran Jack, Mundy, Gunston, Michael Walters, Brad Hill I could go on and on.

With the rotation cap coming in players around the comp are shedding weight this preseason. And it might not be a coincidence that the two teams who were in the grand final (Hawthorn and Freo) are probably on average leaner than the two teams they beat in Sydney and Geelong in the prelims.

nup.....need 100 games

yep.

IMO they should change it to 100 games,,, or 5 seasons on the clubs list...

if they only play 40 games in 5 seasons for whatever reason, so be it.

With the rotation cap coming in players around the comp are shedding weight this preseason.

There is a lot of hysteria around the limitation on rotations Last year the average rotation per club was around 135 per game. This year it will be 120 plus any you have at the breaks. That gives you around 130. So in effect there is a limit that is very similar to the average last year.

The coaches annoy me with their continual complaints about the interchange limits. They say that with less the players are put at risk. The only person putting the players at risk is the coach who demands they adhere to a game plan that requires huge amounts of running. The whole idea of limiting interchange is to open the game up, generate more one on one contests, increase long kicking and hopefully the return of some more contested high marking. These are all the things that made our game great.

If I was Mark Evans I'd just reduce the rotations to 80 or alternatively reduce the bench to 2 + 1 sub. I think you can obviously go to far with this sort of thing but when you consider the success Ross Lyon has had at both Freo and Saints with very defensive game plans and lots of contested footy (which requires the players to run and fill space and crowd the game) it's here to stay if nothing is done. Freo were pretty successful but just terrible to watch with the GF one of the worst I can remember. In his 4 GF's as coach he's lost all of them and his teams have kicked a total of 32 goals - just 8 a game. And he should really have won 2.

But the point of the post is to point out that there is really little if any change to the interchange limit for this year.

yep.

IMO they should change it to 100 games,,, or 5 seasons on the clubs list...

if they only play 40 games in 5 seasons for whatever reason, so be it.

That makes sense if they have had a significant time of there life around the one club.

Also means we could pick up Juice's boys in the future should some willing lass feel the need to contribute.

There is a lot of hysteria around the limitation on rotations Last year the average rotation per club was around 135 per game. This year it will be 120 plus any you have at the breaks. That gives you around 130. So in effect there is a limit that is very similar to the average last year.

The coaches annoy me with their continual complaints about the interchange limits. They say that with less the players are put at risk. The only person putting the players at risk is the coach who demands they adhere to a game plan that requires huge amounts of running. The whole idea of limiting interchange is to open the game up, generate more one on one contests, increase long kicking and hopefully the return of some more contested high marking. These are all the things that made our game great.

If I was Mark Evans I'd just reduce the rotations to 80 or alternatively reduce the bench to 2 + 1 sub. I think you can obviously go to far with this sort of thing but when you consider the success Ross Lyon has had at both Freo and Saints with very defensive game plans and lots of contested footy (which requires the players to run and fill space and crowd the game) it's here to stay if nothing is done. Freo were pretty successful but just terrible to watch with the GF one of the worst I can remember. In his 4 GF's as coach he's lost all of them and his teams have kicked a total of 32 goals - just 8 a game. And he should really have won 2.

But the point of the post is to point out that there is really little if any change to the interchange limit for this year.

The 120 is a trial for 80 I believe. So the increased fitness is in preparation of that.

As for Ross Lyon he's had 3 grand finals. I don't buy the 4 grand final stat, it's inflating it to make him look bad. You don't draw the 3rd you dont get a 4th. And the Geelong game they were so close and really a Matty Scarlett toe poke changed that game. The Collingwood game they drew (in a game where both teams were built on defending first and forward presses) and a lot of their lack of goals in this most recent game was because it was very windy and they kicked (at goal and in to the forward line) so poorly in the first half. Fyfe nails 2 first quarter goals and their score is more reasonable and they are every chance at winning. Plus as someone at the game I think it was a great grand final. Freo had a few players overawed by the occasion that gave a dominant hawks side a lead but through some great play by Mundy and Sandilands and others they clawed it back and it was a tight fought contest in to the last quarter.

Every game plan requires huge amount of running. Just look at North who ran out of legs at 3/4 time in all their games because their super attacking game plan was too tiring.

robbie flower??? please explain?

I was talking about Dipper not Robbie.

I was talking about Dipper not Robbie.

I'm loving the new avatar hood, very apt

The 120 is a trial for 80 I believe. So the increased fitness is in preparation of that.

As for Ross Lyon he's had 3 grand finals. I don't buy the 4 grand final stat, it's inflating it to make him look bad.

Where did you get 80 from and how do you know that is the intention. It's certainly not what I heard.

And for heavens sake. Teams Lyon's coached have played in 4 grand finals - 4 games. They've scored 34 goals in those 4 games with a highest score of 10.8.68.

9.14

10.8

7.10

8.14

I'm not inflating it to make it look bad, I'm stating an actual fact. Want to make it three grand finals? Which score do you want to leave out?

Where did you get 80 from and how do you know that is the intention. It's certainly not what I heard.

And for heavens sake. Teams Lyon's coached have played in 4 grand finals - 4 games. They've scored 34 goals in those 4 games with a highest score of 10.8.68.

9.14

10.8

7.10

8.14

I'm not inflating it to make it look bad, I'm stating an actual fact. Want to make it three grand finals? Which score do you want to leave out?

80's always been the mark talked about as a restriction. 120 was a compromise. It might not happen but it will be debated heavily next year. It's what KB wants.

It's 3 grand finals because they are the games that were prepared for and set for. Leave out the grand final replay which is a ridiculous game in it's own right but that's another story. The saints that day were completely spent. They didn't have the energy for that game after their huge comeback the week prior. When people say 4 grand finals they make it sound like he's been to the last Saturday in September 4 times, but he hasn't he's been there 3 times. It just so happens once he got a draw and they played another game a week later which is such a strange phenomenon it needs to be considered as a different type of game. It's is a grand final replay not a grand final.

9. 14, 10. 8 and 8. 14 with bad kicking in the first and last of those grand finals including wind affected in the last one is not what I consider some horrible blight on the game score.

This is a really interesting discussion but what does it have to do with young Stretch?

This is a really interesting discussion but what does it have to do with young Stretch?

It all sprawled out of control (which was mainly my fault) because someone said Stretch wasn't worth a first round pick as he's skinny.

That then led to my comment that not only are skinny 18 year olds good footballers but players are getting lighter to cope with rotations. That then led to discussion about Ross Lyon game plan and rotations. Some of these are my favourite bug bears so I rolled with it.

If we were planning to throw Stretch into the onballers from day 1, then I'd be worried.

But Roos has shown over and over that he is firmly against rushing kids, and he also is clear on core expectations to meet before being considered 'AFL ready'.

Plenty of light builds are very effective players, and in particular, there is an element of attitude and physical approach that no amount of kilos can cover for - Jordie McKenzie was laying half a dozen tackles a game for two years in a row before he even broke 80kg.

80's always been the mark talked about as a restriction. 120 was a compromise. It might not happen but it will be debated heavily next year. It's what KB wants.

It's 3 grand finals because they are the games that were prepared for and set for. Leave out the grand final replay which is a ridiculous game in it's own right but that's another story. The saints that day were completely spent. They didn't have the energy for that game after their huge comeback the week prior. When people say 4 grand finals they make it sound like he's been to the last Saturday in September 4 times, but he hasn't he's been there 3 times. It just so happens once he got a draw and they played another game a week later which is such a strange phenomenon it needs to be considered as a different type of game. It's is a grand final replay not a grand final.

9. 14, 10. 8 and 8. 14 with bad kicking in the first and last of those grand finals including wind affected in the last one is not what I consider some horrible blight on the game score.

Fuddy duddy is technically right, but like you, I consider Lyon got his team to 3 grand finals. It's 3 seasons for 3 grand finals, with an extra one played as a replay. To lump them all together and do stats on 4 is shallow thinking.

Edited January 13, 201411 yr by The Myth

Fuddy duddy is technically right, but like you, I consider Lyon got his team to 3 grand finals. It's 3 seasons for 3 grand finals, with an extra one played as a replay. To lump them all together and do stats on 4 is shallow thinking.

The coaches annoy me with their continual complaints about the interchange limits. They say that with less the players are put at risk. The only person putting the players at risk is the coach who demands they adhere to a game plan that requires huge amounts of running. The whole idea of limiting interchange is to open the game up, generate more one on one contests, increase long kicking and hopefully the return of some more contested high marking. These are all the things that made our game great.

If I was Mark Evans I'd just reduce the rotations to 80 or alternatively reduce the bench to 2 + 1 sub. I think you can obviously go to far with this sort of thing but when you consider the success Ross Lyon has had at both Freo and Saints with very defensive game plans and lots of contested footy (which requires the players to run and fill space and crowd the game) it's here to stay if nothing is done. Freo were pretty successful but just terrible to watch with the GF one of the worst I can remember. In his 4 GF's as coach he's lost all of them and his teams have kicked a total of 32 goals - just 8 a game. And he should really have won 2.

I'd like to apologize to everyone for failing to explain myself although I'd imagine the majority go my point. But I'll have another go because Benny seems to be at a loss with noticeably reduced comprehension since Xmas. Too much pud Benny?

I was arguing for reduced rotations to reduce defensive pressure and allow some of the things that made our game great - like high marking, long kicking and one on one contests. You may like the rolling maul that was this year GF. I didn't.

I then used Ross Lyon, a highly successful coach, as an example who had used the current game set up (player fitness and number of rotations) to develop the defensive side of the game and reduce its attractiveness - to many at least.

Now concentrate Benny. In the 4 GF that Lyon has coached his teams have failed to win and have kicked 34 goals. Both of those things are pretty clear facts. The trick of course is to see the nexus between the two facts - the number of goals and the number of games. It's mathematically correct to "to lump them all together and do stats on 4". It's not "shallow thinking". It would actually be a prep grade error to use 34 goals in "3 grand finals".

Ironically there are two mistakes in my initial statement. Firstly it was 34 goals not 32 and secondly Lyon didn't lose all of them, he lost 3 and drew 1. But you missed it.

This is a more recent photo, Will be a lot more now he is training with us

80's always been the mark talked about as a restriction. 120 was a compromise. It might not happen but it will be debated heavily next year. It's what KB wants.

I think you may find that the idea of 80 rotations per game is now off the table as the limit of 120 is for the next two season.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-27/afl-brings-in-interchange-cap-

Making decisions on players based on what changes might happen in 2016 would seem unreasonable and silly to me.

IMO it's a storm in a tea cup.

10 months until trade week starts, the kid hasn't played a game in 2014 and we are already aren't willing to give up our first round pick which at the moment is between 1-18.

Surely it is far far too early to form any reasonable opinion on Billy, one way or the other, or on the remaining options for that matter.

.....

I have a hard enough time picking what exact order I'd draft kids when it's a week before the draft and we have film, physical measurements and media commentary on all of them. It's way to early to declare Stretch a steal if we got him in round 2 or a waste if we have to use a first rounder on him. All I know is that father sons can be great value and are also good for the footy club and supporters as a whole.

....

film...how quaint. Is that why we have been so far behind ? ;-))

I think you may find that the idea of 80 rotations per game is now off the table as the limit of 120 is for the next two season.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2013-08-27/afl-brings-in-interchange-cap-

Making decisions on players based on what changes might happen in 2016 would seem unreasonable and silly to me.

IMO it's a storm in a tea cup.

Well it might not decrease but I still think the immediate focus of most AFL clubs will be making sure there players aren't too heavy more than bulking up. Hawthorn and Freo are leading the way with pretty lean guys rather than the Geelong model of a few years ago. These things are circular but it all gets back to my main point that I'm not at all concerned about young Billy have a slight build.

I'd like to apologize to everyone for failing to explain myself although I'd imagine the majority go my point. But I'll have another go because Benny seems to be at a loss with noticeably reduced comprehension since Xmas. Too much pud Benny?

I was arguing for reduced rotations to reduce defensive pressure and allow some of the things that made our game great - like high marking, long kicking and one on one contests. You may like the rolling maul that was this year GF. I didn't.

I then used Ross Lyon, a highly successful coach, as an example who had used the current game set up (player fitness and number of rotations) to develop the defensive side of the game and reduce its attractiveness - to many at least.

Now concentrate Benny. In the 4 GF that Lyon has coached his teams have failed to win and have kicked 34 goals. Both of those things are pretty clear facts. The trick of course is to see the nexus between the two facts - the number of goals and the number of games. It's mathematically correct to "to lump them all together and do stats on 4". It's not "shallow thinking". It would actually be a prep grade error to use 34 goals in "3 grand finals".

Ironically there are two mistakes in my initial statement. Firstly it was 34 goals not 32 and secondly Lyon didn't lose all of them, he lost 3 and drew 1. But you missed it.

Fuddy, so you think Lyon was going to steer away from a game-plan that got them to the GF ? Game 4 didn't shed any extra light on anything.

You seem to be asserting that his game-plan has failed. I'd argue they over achieved for the talent at their disposal. I'd argue the game-plan was pivotal in their ascension up the ladder.

Fuddy, so you think Lyon was going to steer away from a game-plan that got them to the GF ? Game 4 didn't shed any extra light on anything.

You seem to be asserting that his game-plan has failed. I'd argue they over achieved for the talent at their disposal. I'd argue the game-plan was pivotal in their ascension up the ladder.

I didn't argue any of those things.

I'm arguing:

1. That the limit of 120 rotations a match excluding changes at intervals is very similar to the average of last years rotations so we won't see any noticeable difference.

2. I'm arguing the game would be better served if the rotations were further limited or interchange numbers reduced from 3 + 1 to 2 + 1 (or 2) to open play up so some of the more attractive aspects of football returned.

I used Lyon as an example of where the game is now. Note the words "a highly successful coach". He's doing exactly what I expect and getting excellent results.

It's not that hard Ben, but not only is your maths ability terrible ("game 4 didn't shed any extra light on anything") but your comprehension is shot. Even your insults are corny. "Fuddy". Wow, amazing.