Trapper on the outer at the Lions

[dazzledavey36 48,875]

there was a reason why dean bailey got rid of travis johnstone FFS!!! what do the idiots who want him back think that dean bailey would just change his mind after seeing trapper have 3 really [censored] years!

[Guest hangon007]

I will ask you again cause you still haven't answered the question I asked you yesterday...

Will TJ help the Melbourne Football Club win a flag?

Well thats "un-answerable" ...

I take the view, you have to take it one step at a time. If a player like Trapper could be recruited at next to no cost to help you make the finals and give our young lads valuable finals experience. You see it all depends on what role you expect him to play. I for one would be happy to consider the option of a player being recruited for 10-15 games, assuming he is better than the alternatives.

AFL football is a "cycle" what was right 3 years ago might be different today. Why a team gets rid of a player or keeps a player might be for two different reasons. Players get pigeon holed, just because one club fails does not mean automatically he is not worth considering.

Does that constitute ... "Will TJ help the Melbourne Football Club win a flag?"

Just because nobody agrees with you doesn't mean there is a pack mentality, it means we dont agree with you. It says more about your suggestion that it does the posters on here.

Well thats fine then you are more than entitled to your opinion.

[ox_5 163]

Well thats "un-answerable" ...

I take the view, you have to take it one step at a time. If a player like Trapper could be recruited at next to no cost to help you make the finals and give our young lads valuable finals experience. You see it all depends on what role you expect him to play. I for one would be happy to consider the option of a player being recruited for 10-15 games, assuming he is better than the alternatives.

AFL football is a "cycle" what was right 3 years ago might be different today. Why a team gets rid of a player or keeps a player might be for two different reasons. Players get pigeon holed, just because one club fails does not mean automatically he is not worth considering.

Does that constitute ... "Will TJ help the Melbourne Football Club win a flag?"

Well thats fine then you are more than entitled to your opinion.

If we are entitled to our opinion, then why are you accusing us of having a pack mentality?

If we recruited TJ, and he played finals for us next year (I think we will make the top 8 next year anyway), then he is taking away the finals experience of one of our youngsters. Which midfielder would you take out for him to play in the finals and steal that kids finals experience? TJ will not be around when we are pushing for a flag, so recruiting him would be pointless in my opinion.

I would not want him to be playing in a final before any of Gysberts, McKenzie, Bennell, Bail or Morton for example

[Guest hangon007]

If we are entitled to our opinion, then why are you accusing us of having a pack mentality?

If we recruited TJ, and he played finals for us next year (I think we will make the top 8 next year anyway), then he is taking away the finals experience of one of our youngsters. Which midfielder would you take out for him to play in the finals and steal that kids finals experience? TJ will not be around when we are pushing for a flag, so recruiting him would be pointless in my opinion.

I would not want him to be playing in a final before any of Gysberts, McKenzie, Bennell, Bail or Morton for example

Please re-read what I said. You are putting words in my mouth. B)

Edited October 27, 2010 by hangon007

[ox_5 163]

Please re-read what I said. You are putting words in my mouth. B)

Maybe re-read what I said. That was all my opinion - nowhere in there did I say "you said" or anything similar

[John Crow Batty 8,258]

Jeez I hate this site in the off season.

This thread should have been good for a few throw away opinions and thats it.

[Guest hangon007]

The reference to the Courier article evidenced that he had been dropped by two coaches for considerable periods over a two year period. Its puts another hole in your statement about TJ only being dropped for injury. Its patently wrong.

I never said or used the word "only for injury"!!! Players get "dropped/dumped" for a number of reasons. List way too long to mention here. B)

Its you who are jumping to conclusions. Oh yes the "courier mail" the bastion of all football knowledge. Again I challenge you to quote the Courier mail on the 10/15 games Trapper played "last year" where he got 20+ possessions. Or quote the "courier mail" where Trapper plays 14/22 the year before, yet he is so past AFL football Brisbane recall him for their only two finals games. Can I start quoting the newspapers on what they think about Michael Voss "list management" abilities ... sorry you wont get that from me. I choose to think for myself.

And just to set you straight. I dont give a damn what "others" think. But I think I've made that quite clear in my message already. We are all entitled to our opinions on certain matters. I just dont choose to have an "opinion" on nearly everything around here. B)

Edited October 27, 2010 by hangon007

[Guest hangon007]

Maybe re-read what I said. That was all my opinion - nowhere in there did I say "you said" or anything similar

Fine ... I just wanted you to point that out. I understand what you are saying. And its one point I'm not 100% opposed to in principle. ie Trapper vs "the kids" in finals. However, you would have to cross that bridge, if and when you came to it.

IMHO .. Trapper biggest value would be to help us get there compared to the alternatives in this draft. After that, it would all come down to form.

Edited October 27, 2010 by hangon007

[ox_5 163]

Fine ... I just wanted you to point that out. I understand what you are saying. And its one point I'm not 100% opposed to in principle. ie Trapper vs "the kids" in finals. However, you would have to cross that bridge, if and when you came to it.

IMHO .. Trapper biggest value would be to help us get there compared to the alternatives in this draft. After that, it would all come down to form.

I apologise. From now on I will state 'in my opinion' or similar in every post for your benefit.

Speaking of bridges...the Trapper to Melbourne bridge was burned down a long time ago. Probably when Bailey traded him when he first turned up to the club. I see no reason why we would want him back. That is all. In my opinion.

[two sheds jackson 3]

I never said or used the word "only for injury"!!! Players get "dropped/dumped" for a number of reasons. List way too long to mention here. B)

Its you who are jumping to conclusions. Oh yes the "courier mail" the bastion of all football knowledge. Again I challenge you to quote the Courier mail on the 10/15 games Trapper played "last year" where he got 20+ possessions. Or quote the "courier mail" where Trapper plays 14/22 the year before, yet he is so past AFL football Brisbane recall him for their only two finals games. Can I start quoting the newspapers on what they think about Michael Voss "list management" abilities ... sorry you wont get that from me. I choose to think for myself.

In your opinion, did Travis Johnstone not get dropped several times, by both Leigh Matthews and Michael Voss, due to poor form?

[Guest hangon007]

In your opinion, did Travis Johnstone not get dropped several times, by both Leigh Matthews and Michael Voss, due to poor form?

Trapper got dropped for numerous reasons by both Leigh Matthews & Michael Voss.

Leigh Matthews thought enough of Trapper to offer up a first round draft pick. IMHO Leigh was in a different era-cycle at Brisbane. He played 18/22 in 2008 not bad more than acceptable season in my humble opinion.

Taking last year Michael Voss is a different "kettle of fish" ... rightly or wrong players when they reach a certain age 30ish on senior lists in "bottom sides" they are always on shaky ground. You have to be very mindful of the term "poor form". However, what constitutes "poor form" at one club in one era might not hold true as "poor form" for another club in a different phase of the cycle. However, interesting to note when Brisbane weren't a "bottom-side" under Voss he choose to play Trapper in their two most important games of the year.

IMHO at some stage we must traverse the gap. You can't continue to do more of the same and expect a different result.

IMHO if Trapper could help us win 3/4 games and turn an 8 game winning season into an 11-12 game winning season, I would strongly consider the option, irrespective of why or why not he got dropped at other sides by different coaches. Especially in this draft.

Look to be honest, IMHO clubs have to be inventive and look at alternative recruiting methods over the next 2-3 seasons. We as supporters are just going to have to accept we might have to put on our lists "players with baggage".

[Guest hangon007]

I apologise. From now on I will state 'in my opinion' or similar in every post for your benefit.

Speaking of bridges...the Trapper to Melbourne bridge was burned down a long time ago. Probably when Bailey traded him when he first turned up to the club. I see no reason why we would want him back. That is all. In my opinion.

No problems. Thanks for that. I'm still learning around here, sometimes I miss-understand people too.

PS I would have thought CC traded him, I would be "un-sure" how much influence he (DB) would have had then. However, if I was him, I would have probably traded him then myself, the lure of a 1st round draft pick to re-build with would have been mighty convincing. However, today if I was DB I might like to consider "all" options.

Edited October 27, 2010 by hangon007

[two sheds jackson 3]

Trapper got dropped for numerous reasons by both Leigh Matthews & Michael Voss.

Fine. Was one of these reasons poor form?

[e25 5]

There were a number of reasons:

- he was crap

- he was not as good as other fringe players

- he was not in their future plans

- he was not up to AFL standard football

- he was lazy & uncommitted

- his presence was contradictory to the philosophy of a young developing team

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I choose to think for myself.

You could do with some assistance. B)

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

PS I would have thought CC traded him, I would be "un-sure" how much influence he (DB) would have had then. However, if I was him, I would have probably traded him then myself, the lure of a 1st round draft pick to re-build with would have been mighty convincing. However, today if I was DB I might like to consider "all" options.

No. It occurred when Bailey was coach. It was one of his first acts at the Club. CC was on board during that trading period.

The issue is that Bailey's philosophy has not changed and neither has TJ in that period at Brisbane. He is just 3 years older and further on the fringe in the AFL. Think of the option given due consideration. And I am sure it would not get that far in the MFC FD and I doubt any FD member would raise it for fear of viewed with wide eyes and amazed disbelief.

[Guest hangon007]

Fine. Was one of these reasons poor form?

Define "poor form"? Is "poor form" for 1 club the same as for all clubs. Its "Internet forum naiveness" to think "poor form" is the reason why players get dropped, especially in the modern era of football. B)

Nice way to rap it up for the newspapers however. Maybe Trapper just couldn't play the role Michael Voss wanted him to play. However, in today Melbourne side would that be the same role? Look our expections of Trapper in the past were very lofty ... baring in mind where we drafted him. However, baring in mind where we now could draft him ... all I'm saying is he could easily over deliver compared to the alternatives in this draft.

I prefer to focus on the 10 out of 15 games he got 20+ possessions in last year. Would the alternatives in this draft deliver that result?

If Trapper could deliver that result again, and there is no genuine reason to suggest he cant, especially if you accept his role will be different for us.

[Guest hangon007]

No. It occurred when Bailey was coach. It was one of his first acts at the Club.

The issue is that Bailey's philosophy has not changed and neither has TJ in that period at Brisbane. He is just 3 years older and further on the fringe in the AFL. Think of the option given due consideration. And I am sure it would not get that far in the MFC FD and I doubt any FD member would raise it for fear of viewed with wide eyes and amazed disbelief.

DB "philosophy' might not have changed. But thats the whole point ... the avaliable talent and our postion in the drafting process has. B)

I never, said it didn't happen under DB, just said I would have been damn tempted too if I was DB then with the "lure of an extra first round draft pick to rebuild" ... B)

PS Oh and just for your information Trappers "role" did change at Brisbane. But you wouldn't find that in all the newspapers.

Edited October 27, 2010 by hangon007

[Guest hangon007]

You could do with some assistance. B)

Hahaha ... you need to read a few more newspapers. Two can play at that game. B)

[Stigga 25]

DB "philosophy' might not have changed. But thats the whole point ... the avaliable talent and our postion in the drafting process has. B)

I never, said it didn't happen under DB, just said I would have been damn tempted too if I was DB then with the "lure of an extra first round draft pick to rebuild" ... B)

Forget the draft for a second,

Again would/should (and also do you think) TJ would play ahead of Blease, Tapscott, Gysberts et al.

If the answer is no then then we would not draft him.

If any consideration was to be made this is it.

[Guest hangon007]

TJ would play ahead of Blease, Tapscott, Gysberts et al.

Are you sure these 3 are a good example of your argument. Is the word "would" or "could"?

Two are very close to my heart, so I'm not going to "pot" any of them.

[Stigga 25]

Are you sure these 3 are a good example of your argument. Is the word "would" or "could"?

Two are very close to my heart, so I'm not going to "pot" any of them.

Nor should you. In fact you may have just answered your own question in this regard.

I pose the hypothetical. Would you rather TJ play instead of Blease for all of next season? Yes or no?

[Guest hangon007]

Nor should you. In fact you may have just answered your own question in this regard.

I pose the hypothetical. Would you rather TJ play instead of Blease for all of next season? Yes or no?

Thats one "hypothetical" I might not get the luxury to see what "would" be my preferred option. You can take that both ways.

I should add I rarely "pot" present or past players for that matter of fact. Definitely makes me "different" around here.

Edited October 27, 2010 by hangon007

[Stigga 25]

Thats one "hypothetical" I might not get the luxury to see what "would" be my preferred option. You can take that both ways.

Sure, but back to you original point, it would be remiss of us not to also consider:

ADELAIDE

Jarrhan Jacky (delisted)

BRISBANE LIONS

Troy Selwood (delisted)

CARLTON

Brad Fisher (delisted)

Joe Anderson (delisted)

Steven Browne (delisted)

Chris Johnson (delisted)

Rhys O'Keefe (delisted)

Caleb Tiller (delisted)

Josh Donaldson (delisted)

COLLINGWOOD

Jaxson Barham (delisted)

Jarrad Blight (delisted)

Ryan Cook (delisted)

Anthony Corrie (delisted)

Jack Carter (delisted)

Tristan Francis (delisted)

ESSENDON

Jason Laycock (delisted)

John Williams (delisted)

Christian Bock (delisted)

Tyson Slattery (delisted)

Michael Still (delisted)

FREMANTLE

Tim Ruffles (delisted)

Steven Dodd (delisted)

Ryan Murphy (delisted)

Chris Hall (delisted)

Brock O'Brien (delisted)

Ben Bucovaz (delisted)

GEELONG

Ryan Gamble (delisted)

Ranga Ediriwickrama (delisted)

HAWTHORN

Beau Dowler (delisted)

Rhan Hooper (delisted)

Beau Muston (delisted)

Simon Taylor (delisted)

Michael Johnstonp (delisted)

Jarrod Kayler-Thomson (delisted)

Garry Moss (delisted)

Carl Peterson (delisted)

Wayde Skipper (delisted)

Cameron Stokes (delisted)

NORTH MELBOURNE

Josh Smith (delisted)

Warren Benjamin (delisted)

Alan Obst (delisted)

Conor Meredith (delisted)

PORT ADELAIDE

Scott Harding (delisted)

Wade Thompson (delisted)

Cameron Cloke (delisted)

Glenn Dawson (delisted)

Jordan Johns (delisted)

RICHMOND

Tom Hislop (delisted)

Jordan McMahon (delisted)

Dean Polo (delisted)

Adam Thomson (delisted)

Relton Roberts (delisted)

Alroy Gilligan (delisted)

ST KILDA

Adam Pattison (delisted)

Andrew Lovett (delisted)

Mark Hutchings (delisted)

Blake McGrath (delisted)

SYDNEY

Kristin Thornton (delisted)

Taylor Gilchrist (delisted)

Jake Orreal (delisted)

Ed Barlow (delisted)

Matthew O'Dwyer (delisted)

WESTERN BULLDOGS

Tim Callan (delisted)

WEST COAST

Adam Cockie (delisted)

Will Sullivan (delisted)

Tony Notte (delisted)

Beau Wilkes (delisted)

Now that's going to take some consideration!

Edited October 27, 2010 by Stigga

[two sheds jackson 3]

Define "poor form"? Is "poor form" for 1 club the same as for all clubs.

I define "being dropped for poor form" to mean "a situation in which a football player is not playing football as well as he should be, to the point where his coach decides to leave him out of the team, and invites a different football player to play football in his stead".

Its "Internet forum naiveness" to think "poor form" is the reason why players get dropped, especially in the modern era of football.

I guess you've finally answered my question. Trapper was never dropped for poor form, because poor form doesnt actually exist. You might be the only person in Australia who would take this point of view, but luckily the idea is so far outside the realms of logical thinking that it's difficult to form an argument against.

Edited October 27, 2010 by two sheds jackson