Given the number of picks in this year's draft, forced on the other clubs by all the GC picks and concessions, I'm not sure there'll be a lot of good kids left after the ND. So maybe it's not a good year to add a lot of rookies.

I actually think the best player to re-rookie is Healey, but he's probably run out of years?

I think Meesen has a chronic foot problem which has killed his career and also any likelihood of nominating and being selected by another Club.

I believe Meesen has signed on as a part time coach and will continue to study.

I believe Meesen has signed on as a part time coach and will continue to study.

Correct... wont play again. Seems genuinely fond of the Dees though. cant blame him for that

Or a mix up of rookie-ing TMac , Pj gets a years reprieve as insurance and remains on seniors list so can play if required; injury to Jamar etc. This doesn't require an elevation . Newton is delisted as we know what he has/doesn't and so creates a space on rookie list . I think this allow three picks in draft plus one new rookie

If other Rucks are delisted & apply to the draft, pre season, I think we'd delist PJ,,, & try to pick up a charman.

I get the impression the dees will roll the dice this year and clean out the full rookie list. I think PJ and Tommy will be delisted also, with an outside chance at being re-rookied. We are coming into an period of uncertainty with uncompromised drafts and multiple clubs rebuilding. Keeping rookie spots to try and unearth a diamond in the rough is what is needed to help us find the competitive edge. We know the guys we have are not going to help us win a flag. We need to find that next Davey/Jurrah/James McDonald/Robertson/McKenzie type player. We can't do that with list cloggers on the rookie list.

Hughes must be pushing the record for the worst 'years on list for senior games' ratio of any MFC player ever.

Maric is under contract until the end of next year so he's not going anywhere.

My guess is that they'll chop PJ, try to re-rookie T. Mac and axe Meesen/Hughes/Healey. Newton to survive in a miracle worthy of taking place in a Chilean mine.

Hughes must be pushing the record for the worst 'years on list for senior games' ratio of any MFC player ever.

Maric is under contract until the end of next year so he's not going anywhere.

My guess is that they'll chop PJ, try to re-rookie T. Mac and axe Meesen/Hughes/Healey. Newton to survive in a miracle worthy of taking place in a Chilean mine.

Hopefully Newton if he survives the chop he could be the new messiah,(forward/2nd ruck)rather than just a very naughty boy.

Hopefully Newton if he survives the chop he could be the new messiah,(forward/2nd ruck)rather than just a very naughty boy.

no doubt this time next year Juice will be up for sainthood - of course you have to first believe in miracles

Now that they have both been de-listed, does anyone think that they might be picked up into our rookie draft?

Now that they have both been de-listed, does anyone think that they might be picked up into our rookie draft?

No to PJ, McNamara maybe.

I'd give them both a decent chance to get picked up by other clubs before they even make it to the Rookie draft. A team that desperately needs a 2nd or 3rd Ruck option, could pick up PJ.

McNamara will get picked up by a team that needs young defenders. I think Dimma will take a punt on him at Richmond.

No to PJ, McNamara maybe.

I'd give them both a decent chance to get picked up by other clubs before they even make it to the Rookie draft. A team that desperately needs a 2nd or 3rd Ruck option, could pick up PJ.

McNamara will get picked up by a team that needs young defenders. I think Dimma will take a punt on him at Richmond.

As far as we are concerned, it is a good thing for every player we don't want to get drafted, as that improves our chances of getting the players we do want.

PJ might get a look with the new ruck changes. Tommy might get a look in at a few spots. The upcoming drafts will be the best chance in years for players to find spots. Everyone is in a stage of rebuilding in some way or another, and with the GC team scooping up much of the talent it would seem that clubs will look at some tried players rather than draft unknowns.

Both players could find themselves on a rookie list somewhere as insurance for other picks that do not pan out.

McNamara will get picked up by a team that needs young defenders. I think Dimma will take a punt on him at Richmond.

I think if the tiges have one thing, it's an overabundance of tall-ish defender types like McNamara.

- Mcguane, Moore, Astbury, Post, Dylan Grimes, Rance, Thursfield...

Not convinced they'd go anywhere near him.

One thing which continues to be overlloked here - Rookies get paid stuff all ! You can't expect delisted players to simply stick around. Personally, I think Pj is a bit stiff - obviously the FD have made a call in preference of Spencer

But what's the alternative to signing on as a rookie?

They don't get paid the same as a typical AFL player, but still better than in D grade amateurs.

One thing which continues to be overlloked here - Rookies get paid stuff all ! You can't expect delisted players to simply stick around. Personally, I think Pj is a bit stiff - obviously the FD have made a call in preference of Spencer

PJ wont be rookied.

The FD department have made a judgement call that he is not up to AFL requirements.

If it was just a Spencer vs PJ issue (it isnt), then the FD would not have chased Hale.

The fact they missed out on Hale and still cut PJ says it all.

PJ might get a look with the new ruck changes.

I don't think the new rules help PJ, but I'm interested to see why you think this.

I think the new rules will help subpar ruckman with a second string to their bow, because unless you're a #1 ruck you're going to need to be able to play somewhere other than ruck. This is because there's one less interchange spot, so teams will be even less keen on a ruckman taking up space on the bench that can be used to rest midfielders and the like.

Since I don't think PJ is a #1 ruck (and I don't think you do either), then how do the new rules help?

With PJ off the list, we will use Jamar plus one of Spencer/Gawn/Fitzpatrick as our rucks in 2011. Maybe even Martin if he regains fitness and form.

But what happens if Jamar gets injured? Spencer is the most developed of our young ruck stocks, but does anyone feel comfortable about asking him to be first ruck in 2011? Even maybe in 2012? Without an adequate first ruck we may well miss the finals in 2011, setting our development back a year.

The FD will be looking for a mature bodied ruckman who will be serviceable at least for 2011 and 2012. By end 2012, at least one of our young rucks should have stepped up. But during those two years we need cover for Jamar.

I think they will look to get one with pick 49 in the ND. Picks 12 and 32 can get good youngsters even in a corrupted draft like this. If they can't get one with pick 49, they may decline to use 52, just so they keep a list spot open for the PSD. If there is no good option in the PSD, then they will look in the rookies. If they haven't found anyone by the time our last rookie pick is due, they may even re-rookie PJ. But I think some option will present and be taken up before then.

Remember, we don't need a young world beater. Just a reliable ruck to front for our youngsters for two years. He may never play a senior game for us if Jamar stays fit. But if Jamar does get injured, he must be available to step in and prevent the youngsters from getting monstered.

If we can't find anyone else, I would go for Orren Stephenson of North Ballaraat. Has matched/beaten a few good AFL rucks who were coming back from injury or squeezed out of seniors games during 2010. But I think there will be a better choice around somewhere.

With PJ off the list, we will use Jamar plus one of Spencer/Gawn/Fitzpatrick as our rucks in 2011. Maybe even Martin if he regains fitness and form.

But what happens if Jamar gets injured? Spencer is the most developed of our young ruck stocks, but does anyone feel comfortable about asking him to be first ruck in 2011? Even maybe in 2012? Without an adequate first ruck we may well miss the finals in 2011, setting our development back a year.

The FD will be looking for a mature bodied ruckman who will be serviceable at least for 2011 and 2012. By end 2012, at least one of our young rucks should have stepped up. But during those two years we need cover for Jamar.

What if?

You cannot replace an AA ruckman - if he goes down then you may aswell play a good kid, rather than hope to the gods that the NQR ruckman who has replaced him can give near the same output.

What if?

You cannot replace an AA ruckman - if he goes down then you may aswell play a good kid, rather than hope to the gods that the NQR ruckman who has replaced him can give near the same output.

rpfc" I agree, if the worst happens you play Spencer or even Fitzpatrick and hope they can gives us a break even share.

After watching AFL for a long time I have seen guys rise to the occasion.

Some times players mature and develop faster when thrown in at the deep end.

The only way I would be happy with us selecting a mature age ruckman would be:

- A good ruckman is available

- A good "Hale" type is available

I may be wrong but I do not see either type available in the draft at present.

God knows if Spencer will make it but he has a contract and over the next two years for better or worse we have to find out.