Demon Leigh Brown

[Redleg 40,773]

No, Leigh Brown is not coming to us, but as I have posted previously he is the type of player we need for the next couple of seasons. Big and strong and capable of bursts in the ruck, or playing up forward and kicking a couple of goals or helping set them up, or even down back on a gorilla, he is the type of player we desperately need while our young talls mature. While our young talls take time to physically mature a hard strong body IMO would be invaluable. He is keeping Fraser out of the team and that shows his value and versatility. IMO we should be prepared to take a player of this type even though he will probably only be useful for 2-4 years. Whether we trade for one or find one in the VFL, SANFL, WAFL etc is up to the recruiters. You might even get one as a mature age rookie. I don't see the value when we need to start making an impression to keep taking only young talls who need years to develop. A guy like Brown could really help the younger players now and that is worth going after IMO. Sometimes you have to recruit a particular player for the NOW and not for LATER.

PS. I am not advocating chasing Brown but someone like him.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Redleg

[Deeoldfart 8,005]

Brown was no more than a 'solid' player at Freo and the Kangas, but has become a more than that at C'wood where his versatility (in particular) is proving to be an asset. I like what's behind your argument, but IMO there would be a high degree of risk in punting on an established player of his ilk, who could very easily turn out to be a NQR. Not sure I would want to take the punt.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

No, Leigh Brown is not coming to us, but as I have posted previously he is the type of player we need for the next couple of seasons. Big and strong and capable of bursts in the ruck, or playing up forward and kicking a couple of goals or helping set them up, or even down back on a gorilla, he is the type of player we desperately need while our young talls mature. While our young talls take time to physically mature a hard strong body IMO would be invaluable. He is keeping Fraser out of the team and that shows his value and versatility. IMO we should be prepared to take a player of this type even though he will probably only be useful for 2-4 years. Whether we trade for one or find one in the VFL, SANFL, WAFL etc is up to the recruiters. You might even get one as a mature age rookie. I don't see the value when we need to start making an impression to keep taking only young talls who need years to develop. A guy like Brown could really help the younger players now and that is worth going after IMO. Sometimes you have to recruit a particular player for the NOW and not for LATER.

PS. I am not advocating chasing Brown but someone like him.

I understand and agree with your thought process Redleg to a degree.

The problem is that if you are going to be bringing in a player like that, he has to be good enough to be in your best 22 every week, otherwise he is just taking the place of a youngster and not teaching them anything.

Big blokes like that don't grow on trees. Speculating on one from the WAFL, SANFL, VFL is potentially a disaster as he has to be able to command a game right from the start. I don't think there is any big man playing in those lesser comps (and by big i mean gorilla big, like Brown) who would be in the position to walk into a side, and in this case the Melbourne side. So with that in mind, the only other option is to trade for one. Risky business again because quality talls (or even average ones) don't come cheap at the trade table. First round picks are like gold in the next few years because of GC and GWS. 2nd and 3rd round picks will be so low down that they are worth much less at the trade table.

If a side was going to look at trading a big man, you would have to give up the first round pick. For every Leigh Brown out there, there are also plenty of Kepler Bradley's, Mark Williams's, Robert Warnock's who are very much failed trades. In the years of the compromised drafts, do you really want to give up your only first round pick for a speculative player who is no guarantee to be in our best 22 and is only going to be at the club for 2-4 years.

Therefore i believe in continuing to draft young talls and developing them through good coaching and just accepting the fact that they will take 3-4 years to mature and earn their place.

Edited July 18, 2010 by Grandson of a gun

[Redleg 40,773]

I understand and agree with your thought process Redleg to a degree.

The problem is that if you are going to be bringing in a player like that, he has to be good enough to be in your best 22 every week, otherwise he is just taking the place of a youngster and not teaching them anything.

Big blokes like that don't grow on trees. Speculating on one from the WAFL, SANFL, VFL is potentially a disaster as he has to be able to command a game right from the start. I don't think there is any big man playing in those lesser comps (and by big i mean gorilla big, like Brown) who would be in the position to walk into a side, and in this case the Melbourne side. So with that in mind, the only other option is to trade for one. Risky business again because quality talls (or even average ones) don't come cheap at the trade table. First round picks are like gold in the next few years because of GC and GWS. 2nd and 3rd round picks will be so low down that they are worth much less at the trade table.

If a side was going to look at trading a big man, you would have to give up the first round pick. For every Leigh Brown out there, there are also plenty of Kepler Bradley's, Mark Williams's, Robert Warnock's who are very much failed trades. In the years of the compromised drafts, do you really want to give up your only first round pick for a speculative player who is no guarantee to be in our best 22 and is only going to be at the club for 2-4 years.

Therefore i believe in continuing to draft young talls and developing them through good coaching and just accepting the fact that they will take 3-4 years to mature and earn their place.

I am not talking about trading our first pick and am not talking about a Jonathan Brown but a Leigh Brown type. I am saying that instead of taking for our tall picks only young boys who will require years to develop like Watts and Fitzpatrick we look at one who is a mature strong slighly older player. As I said he could be taken as a mature age rookie or as a normal rookie if young enough. I am talking about mixing up our philosophy of only young players for one pick. There are a few good 20-23 year old VFL playes for example who could possibly fill this role. I just think we need a strong body now to help the young guys along.

[deeflog 679]

Surely we have someone just like Brown already on our list....Brad Miller.

He can play forward, back, would be more than capable to pinch hit in the ruck for 5 min a quarter. I just don't think he is in DB's plans going forward.

[sylvinator 96]

Surely we have someone just like Brown already on our list....Brad Miller.

He can play forward, back, would be more than capable to pinch hit in the ruck for 5 min a quarter. I just don't think he is in DB's plans going forward.

Leigh Brown played well this round...

But he still only got 4 ruck taps... come finals time do you really want a back up ruckman who can't win taps at stoppages?

Best case scenario is to have a guy like Ryder who can play really well up forward and in the ruck

[Choko 493]

Leigh Brown played well this round...

But he still only got 4 ruck taps... come finals time do you really want a back up ruckman who can't win taps at stoppages?

Best case scenario is to have a guy like Ryder who can play really well up forward and in the ruck

We've got a Leigh Brown. His name is Paul Johnson. I think we have up and coming ruckmen to support Jamar. We need a forward or one more gun midfielder much more.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

he is the type of player we need for the next couple of seasons.

Big and strong and capable of bursts in the ruck, or playing up forward and kicking a couple of goals or helping set them up, or even down back on a gorilla, he is the type of player we desperately need while our young talls mature.

While our young talls take time to physically mature a hard strong body IMO would be invaluable.

IMO we should be prepared to take a player of this type even though he will probably only be useful for 2-4 years.

Sometimes you have to recruit a particular player for the NOW and not for LATER.

PS. I am not advocating chasing Brown but someone like him.

I am not talking about trading our first pick and am not talking about a Jonathan Brown but a Leigh Brown type. I am saying that instead of taking for our tall picks only young boys who will require years to develop like Watts and Fitzpatrick we look at one who is a mature strong slighly older player. As I said he could be taken as a mature age rookie or as a normal rookie if young enough. I am talking about mixing up our philosophy of only young players for one pick. There are a few good 20-23 year old VFL playes for example who could possibly fill this role. I just think we need a strong body now to help the young guys along.

I know you weren't talking about J Brown. I know you mean a player of the same size and (hopefully) ability as an L Brown. But you were also talking about recruiting for the NOW, for a player who will play for the next 2-4 years and be the lynchpin, protector and teacher of our young talls NOW while they continue to develop and will then be overtaken in 3-4 years when those talls realise their potential.

I think your theory is good but the problem i was highlighting is that realistically it isn't feasible/won't happen.

I understand there may be a few good 20-23 year olds in the lower competitions. But your theory is that we need to draft one that is good enough to play NOW, therefore by extension what you are saying is that the 20-23 year old player we draft, trade for or rookie list from the VFL or other comp will be a player who is good enough to walk into the side.

I am saying that there isn't that type of player out there, or if there is it will cost us an arm and a leg to get them. A price that is too high to pay.

Just because a bloke is playing VFL with a big strong body doesn't mean he is good enough to play as a KPP in the AFL. He needs the talent to match.

Leigh Brown was a solid contributor at another AFL club before he went to Collingwood. Collingwood got the best out of him. He wasn't from the VFL or somewhere else and he wasn't rookie listed. To get a player like that from another AFL club would cost too much in terms of picks and players given the current drafting situation. And players like that aren't just sitting around in the VFL. Pods was an exception to the rule, he isn't the rule.

I just think that any big man from another comp that we take will still take time to develop, if they are even good enough to get a regular game, and that therefore contradicts your theory as they cannot command a place in the team and play here and now in a leadership role like Brown is.

[Harrisonrules 273]

Surely we have someone just like Brown already on our list....Brad Miller.

He can play forward, back, would be more than capable to pinch hit in the ruck for 5 min a quarter. I just don't think he is in DB's plans going forward.

Nor 98% of long suffering demon fans. Spare the thought

[jnrmac 20,040]

No, Leigh Brown is not coming to us, but as I have posted previously he is the type of player we need for the next couple of seasons. Big and strong and capable of bursts in the ruck, or playing up forward and kicking a couple of goals or helping set them up, or even down back on a gorilla, he is the type of player we desperately need while our young talls mature. While our young talls take time to physically mature a hard strong body IMO would be invaluable. He is keeping Fraser out of the team and that shows his value and versatility. IMO we should be prepared to take a player of this type even though he will probably only be useful for 2-4 years. Whether we trade for one or find one in the VFL, SANFL, WAFL etc is up to the recruiters. You might even get one as a mature age rookie. I don't see the value when we need to start making an impression to keep taking only young talls who need years to develop. A guy like Brown could really help the younger players now and that is worth going after IMO. Sometimes you have to recruit a particular player for the NOW and not for LATER.

PS. I am not advocating chasing Brown but someone like him.

Oh, you mean someone like Ben Holland??

[e25 5]

Depends on who it is and what they cost.

I'm not convinced a player of his ilk will be of that much value to us.

I'd much rather develop our own and I don't necessarily think he or someone like him will teach the kids

anything.

It's a nice ideal but I think it leads nowhere.

[deeflog 679]

Nor 98% of long suffering demon fans. Spare the thought

im not saying i want him in the team, im just saying he is our Leigh Brown type

[P-man 13,366]

Hopefully someone who can kick better than Brown as well...

[Nasher 33,607]

We've got a Leigh Brown. His name is Paul Johnson. I think we have up and coming ruckmen to support Jamar. We need a forward or one more gun midfielder much more.

That's exactly what I thought too Choko.

[diesel 420]

I don't watch other sides much...would like the opinion of one time poster on this board The Old Xaverian.

Anyone know when he is back from his holiday in NZ?

Edited July 19, 2010 by diesel

[Vagg 2,437]

We've got a Leigh Brown. His name is Paul Johnson.

Agreed. If he can just put together consistent games like yesterday's, we would all be singing his praises! Saw him in the flesh when he played for Casey at Southport couple of months back, and only then realised how BIG this guy is. He dwarfed everyone else on the ground! Would love him to take that next step that would make him a valuable backup ruckman and big man dropping into the forward line...

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

I have actually been thinking lately that Kosi may be a good fit for our club. I know he is playing like garbage at the moment, but a change of scenery may be a catalyst for a form revival, and he may benefit from playing in a team where the ball will(eventually) get moved down the ground quicker that what is at the Saints. Leigh Brown was just about washed up before the Pies took him on, and Kosi has far more talent than Brown.

We just need him to crash packs, bring the ball to ground, take a good defender and maybe pinch hit in the ruck. The only issue may be what it would cost us.

[Redleg 40,773]

Interesting to hear all three commentators on Fox today say that we need a Leigh Brown type desperately. A big bodied strong marking older player.

[DeezMan 4]

Interesting to hear all three commentators on Fox today say that we need a Leigh Brown type desperately. A big bodied strong marking older player.

Heard this as well. The commentators are spot on. We need to trade Newton for a big-bodied forward I think. As the commentators said, even if we trade for someone that isn't great... we need a 25/26 year-old bigger bodied forward to bring down a pack and provide some biffo.

[The Great One 99 125]

Surely we have someone just like Brown already on our list....Brad Miller.

He can play forward, back, would be more than capable to pinch hit in the ruck for 5 min a quarter. I just don't think he is in DB's plans going forward.

I will go against the grain and agree with you. Any player that we can get of this type would be a gamble. So I would think that our best option would be to keep working with the players coming through, and until then, keep Miller on the list. At least we know what we are getting with him. And he can still improve.

[dee-luded 2,959]

No, Leigh Brown is not coming to us, but as I have posted previously he is the type of player we need for the next couple of seasons. Big and strong and capable of bursts in the ruck, or playing up forward and kicking a couple of goals or helping set them up, or even down back on a gorilla, he is the type of player we desperately need while our young talls mature. While our young talls take time to physically mature a hard strong body IMO would be invaluable. He is keeping Fraser out of the team and that shows his value and versatility. IMO we should be prepared to take a player of this type even though he will probably only be useful for 2-4 years. Whether we trade for one or find one in the VFL, SANFL, WAFL etc is up to the recruiters. You might even get one as a mature age rookie. I don't see the value when we need to start making an impression to keep taking only young talls who need years to develop. A guy like Brown could really help the younger players now and that is worth going after IMO. Sometimes you have to recruit a particular player for the NOW and not for LATER.

PS. I am not advocating chasing Brown but someone like him.

Huh, I suggested we recruit him when he left Nth Melb, a few years ago, just for this reson. I got screamed down.

Just like this year I think we could use JCharman, if we get him for nothing, just for a cheap backup whilst Spencer, Fitzy & Gawn grow. We don't have to even play him ahead of them. Just have him there for insurance, & Casey.

PS: I also wanted to recruit Lachie Henderson, when we instead picked up Morton. I don't know how Cale will turn out, but I can see Henderson would have been perfect to partner Watts up forward.

[Nasher 33,607]

Heard this as well. The commentators are spot on. We need to trade Newton for a big-bodied forward I think. As the commentators said, even if we trade for someone that isn't great... we need a 25/26 year-old bigger bodied forward to bring down a pack and provide some biffo.

I'm dead against the idea of trading in complete duds regardless of their size or position, and if Newton is the currency you're offering, that's the very best you'll get.

[DeezMan 4]

I'm dead against the idea of trading in complete duds regardless of their size or position, and if Newton is the currency you're offering, that's the very best you'll get.

Sorry... when I said a "dud", I meant someone where the POTENTIAL is there and that hopefully we can get them to their potential capabilities ala Leigh Brown whom Collingwood have really unveiled.

However, having said that, I'd actually really like Josh Kennedy to be a Demon. I can dream...

[e25 5]

We'd have got more for Newton if we didn't play him today, too.

I think Bate is perfectly fit to play the role the commentators are talking about.

He's big enough, good enough and just needs to get back in the side.

Charman is not the answer to our problems.

Nor is Lahie Henderson, although I think he'll be a quality player.

Fitzy and the KPF we take in the draft will, in time, perform this role for us.

Until then Bate will do. We are a developing side, not a side looking for a quick fix to make us the finished article.

[DeeSpencer 25,356]

Newton's game today suggests to me he would be as good as Leigh Brown if he played a dozen games in a row for the top side.

How has Leigh Brown gone when we've played Collingwood this year. I can't remember any heroics.

If they FD feel it necessary to have a stop gap we may as well keep the ones we have (and regularly don't get a game for us). That said I'm happy for us to draft a no name from another club but we have to see long term value in them. We aren't nearly ready to bring in depth players.