Time for Plan B, Dean

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Every player, every club, every commentator, every media scribe knows that the game plan is to run the ball quickly through the corridor.

It all went pear shaped against the Kangaroos as the ball was cleared only for the player to look up and see a 4 or 6 man zone had been set up, just waiting.

I don't think that our skills are good enough for precision ball movement (yet) and the new team hasn't been playing together long enough for that sense of awareness that comes with time (read, Geelong)

So...whilst the team is a work in progress, is there a Plan B? Hold onto the ball a bit longer? Allow some cheap possessions? Go a bit wider? Be very, very patient?

Thoughts?

[H_T 3,049]

I think we keep practising our ball movement (ie. persist and perservere with plan A). Fine tune it until we get precision movement so we can get through/over these zones so we can control the corridor, by backing yourself; skills.

By going wide and holding the ball up for cheap possessions...I'm not a fan of that unless killing some time.

What do Geelong do ? I want to see that. Good decision making, taking risks, taking the game on, breaking the game open by playing an exciting brand with quick ball movement.

[Dreamin' Demon 10]

What do Geelong do ? I want to see that. Good decision making, taking risks, taking the game on, breaking the game open by playing an exciting brand with quick ball movement.

That's exactly what Geelong do. They are so well skilled, that they have absolutely no fear in moving the ball forward at all costs. There is no panic when confronted by zones. No fear because they know their team mates well, where they are going to be & what they are capable of doing. Turnover is not an option.

I know that we are modelling ourselves on Geelong however; we are a long, long, long way away from them at the moment.

Next pre-season we will need to bulk up & perfect skills.

[Akum 2,660]

Geelong are also good at kicking intelligently to one-on-one contests, forward of centre, in such a way as to give their man a chance to either mark or get the ball to ground to crumbers. There's a huge difference between kicking intelligently to a forward-line contest and just bombing it. The goals to Green & Watts came from intelligent kicks to contested one-on-one situations (out in front of Green & over the top for Watts to run on to), but it didn't happen too many times.

[Demon3 2,541]

i have said this all year, the problem is we have no Plan B, and as hard as it is for some to hear, our Plan A lloks like it was a fluke. The way we played against Hawthorn R1 was shocking, but there was no hint of run and carry, it was a very defensive mindset, we got smashed, the next week, the wolves are at the door, and they look like they were told to just keep the ball moving and amazingly look what happened we nearly won..

Plan A is great if we continue to have belief in it, running is great but you also have to be smart, something a few of our ball cariers are not. and plan B needs to de devised very quickly!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Yes. We need a game plan to suit a style where we are being physically monstered by the opposition and under relentless pressure and the players cant cope with it. Come on Dean!

Seriously if ever there is a lesson in this for the players its certainly being missed here.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

I wouldn't want to see wholesale changes, but we were very defintely out-coached by Ratten on Saturday. Out-physicalled among other things.

Neil Craig is one coach who seems devoid of any plan B. I think DB does change things around a bit, maybe what you're really wanting is a bit more thinking outside the box. Like someone said, we're predictable and that is a problem at the moment because our skills and inexperience and young bodies all leave us vulnerable to good coaching plans like against the Roos and Carlton on Saturday.

Another thing I hope our coaches can address is how to fire the team up from the first bounce.

[Allen Jakovich 516]

Yes. We need a game plan to suit a style where we are being physically monstered by the opposition and under relentless pressure and the players cant cope with it. Come on Dean!

Seriously if ever there is a lesson in this for the players its certainly being missed here.

+1

[Nasher 33,617]

I'd prefer to get Plan A working properly.

You can't make game plan changes (strategic changes) on a whim. These are devised and revised over a period of years, and the players need to be drilled repeatedly, over a long time for it to become successful. Sorry, but the next time you see this type of change will be when the next coach comes in. 2007 was the last time we saw a coach try to make a strategic change too quickly -- how'd that work out for us?

Forget about Plan B until Plan A is in full swing. It's not there yet.

[Nasher 33,617]

Yes. We need a game plan to suit a style where we are being physically monstered by the opposition and under relentless pressure and the players cant cope with it. Come on Dean!

Seriously if ever there is a lesson in this for the players its certainly being missed here.

Perhaps Plan B could be the Garry Hocking "put all the players in the defensive 50" tactic

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Plan B should be get better at plan A.

Skills, strength, confidence, endurance, spirit, confidence and confidence.

[Nasher 33,617]

Plan B should be get better at plan A.

Skills, strength, confidence, endurance, spirit, confidence and confidence.

Thanks. Said it better than I did, in less words. B)

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

Plan B should be get better at plan A.

Skills, strength, confidence, endurance, spirit, confidence and confidence.

And this will all slowly come together when:

* More dead wood is thrown out

* The kids play more games

* The kids develop their bodies in the gym.

* We as a team start believing in and playing for each other

* New and improved facilities, (Aami Park)

In short.... 2 - 5 years.

[Arthur Dent 2]

And this will all slowly come together when:

* More dead wood is thrown out

* The kids play more games

* The kids develop their bodies in the gym.

* We as a team start believing in and playing for each other

* New and improved facilities, (Aami Park)

In short.... 2 - 5 years.

Precisely. We are EXACTLY where I expected we would be at this stage of the year. 13th is about where we are at, and 4 wins to date is an improvement on last year. We can all see it, we just need to be patient. Some of the rubbish that was being bandied about on this forum about a top 4 finish was always fanciful. The teams we've beaten are currently 10th, 11th, 15th and 16th.

Build it and they will come...

[Prof 15]

KEEP BRINGING IN THE YOUNGER PLAYERS ON THE LIST

The smart move is to bring in the young guys who have played little or no firsts footy this year.

Bring in Strauss, McKenzie, Cheney and Maric over the next few weeks. Leave them in for 4 or 5 weeks.

DO NOT BRING IN: Johnson, Bell, Newton.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Prof

[Inner Demon 1]

KEEP BRINGING IN THE YOUNGER PLAYERS ON THE LIST

The smart move is to bring in the young guys who have played little or no firsts footy this year.

Bring in Strauss, McKenzie, Cheney and Maric over the next few weeks. Leave them in for 4 or 5 weeks.

DO NOT BRING IN: Johnson, Bell, Newton.

But bringing in these other younger players is going to mean dropping other younger players. Unless you are suggesting we drop Junior, Green, Bruce, Warnock, Jamar & Davey who are the only 'older' players in our team.

[Geddy Lee 582]

Plan A should be bring in Jordie McKenzie.

Plan B should be our regular, ie. vs Brisbane, game plan.

[Steamin Demon 392]

If we had started playing at 2.10pm instead of around 3.10pm on saturday we probably woundn't be having this conversation.

[armstrong35 262]

i love when our players get the ball from the defence and run forward but it would be great if they had someone to bloody kick too!!!

that is something that is costing us games

we need to leave greeny in the forward line so they have a target

[rpfc 28,779]

I'd prefer to get Plan A working properly.

You can't make game plan changes (strategic changes) on a whim. These are devised and revised over a period of years, and the players need to be drilled repeatedly, over a long time for it to become successful. Sorry, but the next time you see this type of change will be when the next coach comes in. 2007 was the last time we saw a coach try to make a strategic change too quickly -- how'd that work out for us?

Forget about Plan B until Plan A is in full swing. It's not there yet.

Well said.

I cannot believe fans think that players not executing properly is a reason to abandon a gameplan.

The time to abandon a gameplan is when players are executing but it doesn't result in wins.

Plan B is like this mythical go-to criticism of those that don't know what they are criticising. What would be a Plan B for the MFC, something akin to what Collingwood play? Go around the boundary? They are executing that perfectly, and doesn't work a treat against Geelong and St Kilda?

[Arthur Dent 2]

Plan A should be bring in Jordie McKenzie.

Plan B should be our regular, ie. vs Brisbane, game plan.

Ah yes, Brisbane. Wouldnt it be great if every opponent played with zero accountability and let us run absolute riot straight up the guts all game. How easy our game would be.

[1858 285]

I think the direction Dean Bailey is taking the group is the right one and from that pov I am happy with our plan A. Trying to use the corridor and make attacking play is a requirement in modern football and the fact that we have a raw team is irrelevant, it just means that we will have to give them time to develop. I don't mind mistakes (decisions, disposal) that are based on showing initiative against a better side or are a result of a game plan that is not yet within the grasp of the younger players, it's all part of the learning curve.

I've seen some comparisons between the current Melbourne group and Geelong of a few years ago (in varying capacities) which have been interesting. What is also very interesting is that Melbourne currently has the highest play-on percentage of any team in the AFL - including Geelong (in their prime I might add not the Geelong of 5 years ago). There is no doubt that what Bailey is doing at the moment is quite dynamic (almost revolutionary) and I agree with others who re-iterate our need for patience, to go one step further I think all MFC supporters should take solace in the fact that we have one of the most rigorous learning regimes in history of the game unfolding out there rather than worrying about short-term symptoms.

My only concern as we go forward is that our eagerness to develop our attacking play does not stifle our decision making and responsibility processes that our players also need to develop. I've noticed that we seem to be taking the play-on at all costs strategy to the extreme with (on many occasions) minimal scope for advantage or common sense. The decision to play on from a kick out with 20 seconds to go before half time on the weekend and an opposition zone of 3 on 1 was quite simply horrendous with an inevitable turnover and oppostion goal with 7 seconds to go in the quarter. I don't normally use individual incidents as examples to general opinions but it was one of those moments where I asked myself have we really come this far? It was mindless, automated football and it was exhibited by a senior player. I don't use this as a criticism of our gameplan (in general) more as a concern that our gameplan is being adopted to a very high degree. With 20 seconds to go we needed a cool head, someone to assess the situation (both positional disadvantage and presence of mind of the length of the quarter) and say "no" I won't play on in this situation, just hold it up.

It is easy to say that that sort of awareness will come over time once the playing group is on top of things and in theory it makes sense. Having said that, I think it is important though to coach the players both as a group and as individual decision makers similtaneously rather than in tiers or coaching may simply become conditioning. I appreciate that the load on these kids is massive and there are benefits to drilling them early with this intensity and keeping things simple - they can't do everything. From this pov I am not suggesting that Bailey is doing the wrong thing (he's an AFL coach, I'm some random typing on a computer). I'm simply recognising that there is currently a trade off happening out there due to the intense, unprecedented focus on ball movement which I hope doesn't manifest.

As I said, in general I fully support the direction we are taking. There are naturally some symptoms of our attacking game style that some people tend to get caught up with. Some will improve naturally and some need to improve structurally. It stands to reason that our disposal efficiency is low at times and I see people make a point of it quite often. There is no point getting caught up in stats like that as they don't suggest we have an unskilled group at all, it's simply due to the fact that we are making more disposals under pressure due to playing on more than any other team - it isn't rocket science. This is where we will improve naturally.

Personally, I maintain that our forward setup is quite simply non-condusive to the direction the team is taking. Not-withstanding personell inadequacies or an ever evolving forwardline (due to multiple reasons) we can't just limit the focus of our gameplan on the midfielders and have them control our destiny. Obviously they have to develop and as they do we will naturally improve as a team but with such a dynamic strategy it is crucial that the forward line is in tune with what the midfield is trying to achieve and it is currently severely lacking. Here we need structural improvement and integration. We have a dogs breakfast forward setup with some players who belong back in 2005 interacting with a new-age midfield learning one of the most rigorous game styles ever in 2010 and beyond. To simply say that once our midfield improves (which it admittedly will) our team will improve, is backwards reasoning for arguing that our current forward setup does not need to improve (significantly). Yes, it certainly begins in the middle, but no it certainly does not end in the middle. If anything, a fordward setup that is condusive to how our midfield is being coached will accelerate their development.

In any case, it is a very exciting time at demonland and if you actually understand what is happening out there on the ground you will appreciate rather than lament most aspects of our strategy and performances.

[Prof 15]

But bringing in these other younger players is going to mean dropping other younger players. Unless you are suggesting we drop Junior, Green, Bruce, Warnock, Jamar & Davey who are the only 'older' players in our team.

There will be at least 3 if not 4 spots available this week.

McKenzie to replace Junior, Cheney or Strauss to replace Jones, Maric to replace Sylvia, Dunn to replace Miller

Edited June 7, 2010 by Prof

[dee-luded 2,959]

Plan A should be bring in Jordie McKenzie.

Plan B should be our regular, ie. vs Brisbane, game plan.

So far its been out McKenzie (inside mid), & in GyBerts (inside mid). I'd like to see both in the one team together on differing rotations.

We could bring McKenzie in as an run with player if they're worried about the youth ratio.

[PeterJames 46]

Every player, every club, every commentator, every media scribe knows that the game plan is to run the ball quickly through the corridor.

It all went pear shaped against the Kangaroos as the ball was cleared only for the player to look up and see a 4 or 6 man zone had been set up, just waiting.

I don't think that our skills are good enough for precision ball movement (yet) and the new team hasn't been playing together long enough for that sense of awareness that comes with time (read, Geelong)

So...whilst the team is a work in progress, is there a Plan B? Hold onto the ball a bit longer? Allow some cheap possessions? Go a bit wider? Be very, very patient?

Thoughts?

Everyone knows geelongs game plan as well doesn't make it easy to stop! Just the players get better at applying it!