On 12/04/2010 at 09:28, Cards13 said:

Use the footy better? He's not Robinson Crusoe there tiger....

Your response suggests my view is bordering on crazy, so I decided to look at the stats.

Against Adelaide, Bail had a disposal efficiency of 67% (team average 72%), including 4 clangers. The week before, Bail's disposal efficiency was 60%.

I'm not a huge fan of the efficiency stats, but they suggest that Bail wouldn't exactly be exploring new territory if his disposal improved, don't you think?

  On 12/04/2010 at 14:59, Rogue said:

Your response suggests my view is bordering on crazy, so I decided to look at the stats.

Against Adelaide, Bail had a disposal efficiency of 67% (team average 72%), including 4 clangers. The week before, Bail's disposal efficiency was 60%.

I'm not a huge fan of the efficiency stats, but they suggest that Bail wouldn't exactly be exploring new territory if his disposal improved, don't you think?

Stats: they are wonderful.....if a ball comes out of a scrimmage and Bail has to just hack it forward - ineffective disposal, if he handballs in traffic and ball gets knocked down or bounces away from recipient - ineffective disposal

if kick is taken by the wind over the head of intended recipient - ineffective disposal........au contraire, if Chip and Garlo exchange a couple of kicks between them in back half - effective disposals......sigh....look at game see Bail is adding something different actoss the half forward line, wing..effective

  On 12/04/2010 at 22:37, satyricon said:

Stats: they are wonderful.....if a ball comes out of a scrimmage and Bail has to just hack it forward - ineffective disposal, if he handballs in traffic and ball gets knocked down or bounces away from recipient - ineffective disposal

if kick is taken by the wind over the head of intended recipient - ineffective disposal........au contraire, if Chip and Garlo exchange a couple of kicks between them in back half - effective disposals......sigh....look at game see Bail is adding something different actoss the half forward line, wing..effective

Yes, this stat, like all stats can be misleading, but in this case it is a fair judgement of Bail's ability to move the ball on in his first few games. Rogue is correct in saying that Bail's disposal is not at the required level in his first few showings. Which is not to say that he has no hope in the future, in Bail's case I think it is his decision making that lets him down, at times it can be difficult to split decision making and pure kicking ability, but I do think he has the 'tools' to be an efficient user of the ball. Plus he's hard at it, and runs all day. In both the last two games Bail literally threw himself head first into a contest, great stuff to watch.

Yep, I really like the look of the guy.

Bought a new guernsey yesterday and nearly put his number on it - but just had to go with number 16.

  On 12/04/2010 at 22:56, JACKATTACK said:

Yes, this stat, like all stats can be misleading, but in this case it is a fair judgement of Bail's ability to move the ball on in his first few games. Rogue is correct in saying that Bail's disposal is not at the required level in his first few showings. Which is not to say that he has no hope in the future, in Bail's case I think it is his decision making that lets him down, at times it can be difficult to split decision making and pure kicking ability, but I do think he has the 'tools' to be an efficient user of the ball. Plus he's hard at it, and runs all day. In both the last two games Bail literally threw himself head first into a contest, great stuff to watch.

all together now.........it was his third game.......like Bennell, he gets me excited with some of his play, if he makes a blue, so what, every player makes them.we have become too stat oriented.......he had a hand in a couple of the goals, and ran all day, and as you said, dived headfirst into contests.......it is football, I have watched it for over thirty years, we are over analysing it.......enjoy the game, mistakes and all, that's what makes it so exciting, we played a team with 18 defenders in the last quarter because of necessity, and our efforts to break it down, riddled with errors was just great......I can't wait for the day when a team wins 10 points to 6 when both teams are 100% efficient and the ball stays between the two goal arcs..and the lowly point scores come from the occasional free kick and 50 metre penalty...fans will love it

  On 12/04/2010 at 02:50, Rogue said:

I have a pretty different view.

While I quite like Bail, I think he needs to use the footy better and that seems to be the biggest issue with him as we build towards a flag.

Nice size and motor though, and I'm sure he'll get plenty of opportunities.

I agree with you rogue, while his energy and run do bring us something I didn't think his diposal and decision making has been as good as everyone is making out in this thread. It is only his third game and he is still getting the pace of the games but if Sylvia is coming back I think he is the player that goes out. Bail hasn't dominated a VFL game that I have seen and if he does get dropped I would like to see him use the confience gained in the AFL to dominate a few VFL games.

  On 12/04/2010 at 23:12, satyricon said:

all together now.........it was his third game.......like Bennell, he gets me excited with some of his play, if he makes a blue, so what, every player makes them.we have become too stat oriented.......he had a hand in a couple of the goals, and ran all day, and as you said, dived headfirst into contests.......it is football, I have watched it for over thirty years, we are over analysing it.......enjoy the game, mistakes and all, that's what makes it so exciting, we played a team with 18 defenders in the last quarter because of necessity, and our efforts to break it down, riddled with errors was just great......I can't wait for the day when a team wins 10 points to 6 when both teams are 100% efficient and the ball stays between the two goal arcs..and the lowly point scores come from the occasional free kick and 50 metre penalty...fans will love it

Easy tiger, I have been watching football for years too, I like Bail, but there is room for improvement. Relax.

I watched the first three quarters of the Collingwood game last night and Bail was very good he made some mistakes but they all did. All he needs to do is pick up the pace of the game and the correct decision making will come, he won't learn that at Casey he will have all the time in the World to dispose of it there.

We need some hard older bodies like Bail and Joel Mac to go with the younger kids, I'd leave him in.

Looks like we might have un-earthed a nice player with a punt on a late draft pick. Well done to our recruiting staff. A month ago I was thinking that Rohan would probably be one make way for a new recruit at the end of the season, but if he continues to play like he has in the last two weeks, there's no way that will happen. Seems like he thrives on hard work and his football 'maturity' shows when compared to many of the draftees out of the u18 competition.

  On 11/04/2010 at 08:56, RalphiusMaximus said:

Loved the multitude of occasions when he crumbed off the back of the pack after the kickout. I can't decide if this is a set play or not, to pelt it out to Jamar and have him force it over the back to the runner, or if he was just reading it off hands really well. Either way it was impressive and set up a lot of attacks for us. Also came very close to getting the opening goal of the match again.

I also noticed a slight variation on the kickout from a point. Instead of a precision pass from the square (which misfires tragically a la Strauss Brown)the kicker kicks to him self and plays on. A forward obstructs or blocks the zone defender to protect the run and carry of the kicker. The kick then goes to either a hit up or a contest where someone like Jamar at about 20+ metres past the 50 - crumbers work to that point. Its not that much of an innovation except for the obstruction of the chasing defender. Its seems more appropriate for us right now than the pressure that we apply to our defensive kicks. It mostly worked on Sunday although one kick fell short of Jamar and was marked by Marik (Q1 or 3).

He looks to be one of those players who is better when they play in the AFL as opposed to the VFL. I've been impressed.

as if things weren't looking rosy enough, Bail and McKenzie appear out of left field

recruitment and development is in full effect with the current administration

the issue is, as has been going on for years, can the club take these guys from promising debutants to top-line players? If Grimes, Morton and Frawley are any indication it is looking likely

  On 12/04/2010 at 23:24, Melon22 said:

I agree with you rogue, while his energy and run do bring us something I didn't think his diposal and decision making has been as good as everyone is making out in this thread. It is only his third game and he is still getting the pace of the games but if Sylvia is coming back I think he is the player that goes out. Bail hasn't dominated a VFL game that I have seen and if he does get dropped I would like to see him use the confience gained in the AFL to dominate a few VFL games.

Possibly the most ridiculous post Ive ever read on this site, and thats saying something..

Would almost be one of our first picked based on his last two games. Embodies EVERYTHING our playing style is based upon.

  On 13/04/2010 at 00:54, BennytheJet said:

Possibly the most ridiculous post Ive ever read on this site, and thats saying something..

Would almost be one of our first picked based on his last two games. Embodies EVERYTHING our playing style is based upon.

Bennythejet, thank you, I held my keyboard back, it does continually amaze me that as we bring these young guys into the side, some posters pick holes in them after 1 or 2 games, Bailey would not pick them if he thought they could not produce. I expect every young player coming into the side to be the embodiement of what Bailey wants, Jetta, Bennell, Bail, Cheney have shown this........

  On 13/04/2010 at 00:19, Clint Bizkit said:

He looks to be one of those players who is better when they play in the AFL as opposed to the VFL. I've been impressed.

Maybe the bigger grounds allow him to use his speed more? He seems to be very quick, and he gets rewarded because he runs hard and ends up in the clear so much. That's how it appears on TV anyway. Jeez I wish I could get to more games.

I agree with Rogue and Melon in that he could probably use the ball better, but I don't agree that he should be dropped. He's playing more than good enough footy to keep his spot in the side for the time being, and I don't think there's any benefit to sending him back to the VFL. Especially when he's been a solid contributor to our side playing good footy.

Definitely not on my radar for omission.

  On 12/04/2010 at 14:59, Rogue said:

Your response suggests my view is bordering on crazy, so I decided to look at the stats.

Against Adelaide, Bail had a disposal efficiency of 67% (team average 72%), including 4 clangers. The week before, Bail's disposal efficiency was 60%.

I'm not a huge fan of the efficiency stats, but they suggest that Bail wouldn't exactly be exploring new territory if his disposal improved, don't you think?

  On 12/04/2010 at 22:37, satyricon said:

Stats: they are wonderful.....if a ball comes out of a scrimmage and Bail has to just hack it forward - ineffective disposal, if he handballs in traffic and ball gets knocked down or bounces away from recipient - ineffective disposal

if kick is taken by the wind over the head of intended recipient - ineffective disposal........au contraire, if Chip and Garlo exchange a couple of kicks between them in back half - effective disposals......sigh....look at game see Bail is adding something different actoss the half forward line, wing..effective

  On 12/04/2010 at 22:56, JACKATTACK said:

Yes, this stat, like all stats can be misleading, but in this case it is a fair judgement of Bail's ability to move the ball on in his first few games. Rogue is correct in saying that Bail's disposal is not at the required level in his first few showings. Which is not to say that he has no hope in the future, in Bail's case I think it is his decision making that lets him down, at times it can be difficult to split decision making and pure kicking ability, but I do think he has the 'tools' to be an efficient user of the ball. Plus he's hard at it, and runs all day. In both the last two games Bail literally threw himself head first into a contest, great stuff to watch.

How do you obtain a stat on one who helps breaks lines with run and makes things happen ? They're a dime-a-dozen. Sure his disposal can improve a little, but the former trait is worth it's weight in gold.

  On 13/04/2010 at 00:30, Curry & Beer said:

as if things weren't looking rosy enough, Bail and McKenzie appear out of left field

recruitment and development is in full effect with the current administration

Bail & McKenzie, akin to a breath of fresh air.

I think this is interesting - if you believe the club site Rohan Bail is 183 cm and 91 kgs.

That is a pretty solid unit a mature body (by comparison the much taller Warnock and Frawley are listed in the 90's).

I think the average weight of all AFL players is around 88 kg.

Is that weight right do you reckon or are these things right when they first join the club and then never updated?

  On 13/04/2010 at 05:43, poseidon burke said:

I think this is interesting - if you believe the club site Rohan Bail is 183 cm and 91 kgs.

That is a pretty solid unit a mature body (by comparison the much taller Warnock and Frawley are listed in the 90's).

I think the average weight of all AFL players is around 88 kg.

Is that weight right do you reckon or are these things right when they first join the club and then never updated?

This is Bailey's mantra about building bodies, Bail has had a pretty good preseason, and I believe a professional trainer and looks after himself........... you now have size and speed (the Geelong model).....if you look at Kyle Cheney as well he is bigger and TMac........we have followed our rookie Rhys Healey who has a a good preseason as well, he is about 10k heavier than when he arrived.....and is strong

  On 13/04/2010 at 00:19, Clint Bizkit said:

He looks to be one of those players who is better when they play in the AFL as opposed to the VFL. I've been impressed.

Absolutely right, Clint. For those who have played the game, at a reasonable level, it was a given that it was often "harder to get a kick in the twos than the ones". So it is for Bail.

As for decision making, go back and look at his 2 games, and check out how many of his decisions (real decisions, not a blind handball) led to goals? Plenty.

Bail also brings an X factor. Look no further than the first goal against the filth: running for and demanding an over the top pass before running into an open goal. How many of us can remember such daring, taking the game on from a demon player?

Make no mistake, Bail is an absolute gun. (Perhaps I should say: he could be an absolute gun? )

  On 13/04/2010 at 10:55, Mono said:

Absolutely right, Clint. For those who have played the game, at a reasonable level, it was a given that it was often "harder to get a kick in the twos than the ones".

Why's that? Just asking, as someone who never played footy at any level beyond 'only got a game when the worst teams needed to make up numbers'.

  On 13/04/2010 at 05:43, poseidon burke said:

I think this is interesting - if you believe the club site Rohan Bail is 183 cm and 91 kgs.

That is a pretty solid unit a mature body (by comparison the much taller Warnock and Frawley are listed in the 90's).

I think the average weight of all AFL players is around 88 kg.

Is that weight right do you reckon or are these things right when they first join the club and then never updated?

That weight has been their since the day he got drafted. There is not a chance he is heavier than Moloney who is listed at 182cm and 86kg. For his height and position (not that I'm sure of his ideal position but he certainly looks more of a running player than an inside mid) I'd be surprised if they wanted him over 84kg. I'd guess that he weighs somewhere in the low 80's. Interesting that he is 21 nearly 22 so despite being late into the AFL system he should be nearing his peak physically, and his peak form shouldn't be far away. So he really has to earn his next contract for mine, but he is doing a great job of it.

  On 13/04/2010 at 10:58, Nasher said:

Why's that? Just asking, as someone who never played footy at any level beyond 'only got a game when the worst teams needed to make up numbers'.

My rationale?

In the twos, the game is slower, less clean and more crowded, with poorer skills. It is thus harder to get clean ball and in space. A good bash-and-crash player may look better, but won't make it in the ones.

Consider Liam Jurrah. If you were waiting for him to dominate a VFL game, you'd be waiting forever. But in a faster paced AFL game, with better/cleaner skills, and space, his talent shows through.

Liking this guy the more I see him play...saw him live against the pies and disposal on non-preferred is elite...actually reminded me of watching Brent Heaver in the early 90's wearing the number 54 for the red blue...Looking forward to seeing him in a lower jumper next year...maybe he can replicate the Ox and go from 44 to 5...

Dont forget DB knew Bail from Mt Gravatt so was fully aware of his capabilities.

A good call by the coach I'd say.

Rohan looks Relaxed & ready to go out on the ground-He has got the X Factor from the moment i saw him run to get the ball against the Filth First time i knew he was going to be constructive with it.

If DB got him to the MFC that is a massive Tick.