Re-invent Brad Miller as a defender ...

[Keyser Söze 0]

amazing..Im talking about miller..and miller alone.. and others introduce tom dick and harry...and ..Im the one who's missing any points ? I dont think so.. Seems many just like to feather their own arguments to suit when all goes awry !!

But you have to be realistic -- what is the alternative to Miller??

Its not like we signed him 4 years.

[beelzebub 23,378]

But you have to be realistic -- what is the alternative to Miller??

Its not like we signed him 4 years.

Without trying to be cute.. I do hear your question.. for me the reply then is alternative in what manner? It first assumes we have a definite position for him. This is entirely debatable...and I say that not to fuel anything but to suggest this in itself is the cause of much disdain.

If hes a lead up CHF..then I think Bate is better. If hes FF ..then Watts . Miller isnt suited to much else....this is the very crux of the matter. Joel McD may release Garland to the forwardline..

Hell Tapscott mightnt be that far from a start with a decent preseason...hes a biggish unit lacking refinement...but maybe you get them going in the deep end. We arent trying to win a premiership next year...just to get going..

I use Tapscott only to suggest you can mix it up somewhat.. . Luke on a flank might bring Jurrah into KPP.. and so on, It comes back to..what role is Miller supposed to fill.. then we can provide alternatives.

Edited December 10, 2009 by belzebub59

[Keyser Söze 0]

...

I'm talking on filling the spot on the list.

Even if Brad Miller does not play one single AFL game in 2010 he will still make a valuable contribution to the club through his leadership and professionalism.

At the conclusion of the 2009 season we could have chosen to not re-sign him and picked a kid at pick 66 in the National Draft who likely would not be ready to fill the same positions as Miller on the field, for the sake of team balance.

He will at the worst be a depth KPF.

If we signed him for multiple years I could understand your objection, but as there was not a better alternative this year, what would you have the club do?

Or is there a better alternative that you are aware of..?

[pitmaster 3,561]

If hes a lead up CHF..then I think Bate is better. If hes FF ..then Watts . Miller isnt suited to much else....this is the very crux of the matter.

You must be kidding. Watts is two to three years away from being made responsible for a key position. You're falling for the same misunderstanding as those who bag Watts for not being a champion at 18 years of age. He has to be given time. In the meantime it's Miller time.

[beelzebub 23,378]

You must be kidding. Watts is two to three years away from being made responsible for a key position. You're falling for the same misunderstanding as those who bag Watts for not being a champion at 18 years of age. He has to be given time. In the meantime it's Miller time.

kidding..hardly... he has to grow into the position.. where exactly on the field do you put him them ?

The misunderstanding is all yours. Yes he needs time.. he wont be the super star from teh get -go. but he needs to play there. Thats what he is in the team for..to play KPP. Hes no different from Franklin in the respect that you have to start...until you start you dont get better.

[beelzebub 23,378]

Or is there a better alternative that you are aware of..?

youve just outlined it.. draft anotherh kid but employ Miller in some sort of coaching /mentoring role...if hes that bloody good at it !! If hes not going to be of any impact ON the field..do it OFF the field. just dont waste anyones time with any pretence he's a potent forward.. Not hard is it

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

youve just outlined it.. draft anotherh kid but employ Miller in some sort of coaching /mentoring role...if hes that bloody good at it !! If hes not going to be of any impact ON the field..do it OFF the field. just dont waste anyones time with any pretence he's a potent forward.. Not hard is it

Any young player that would potentially fill Miller's role (which is only for one year) will take around 2 to 3 years to mature to be a regular player. Given the way MFC have handled other young tall players they have played little AFL football in the first season.

So its not a valid or thought through alternative. Not that hard is it.

You dont like Miller..fair enough. But posting fluff about premierships when we are talking about the 39th player on the list and deriding an opposing views on an ingenious and false claim of Miller's ability is the only pretence we are dealing with here.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

kidding..hardly... he has to grow into the position.. where exactly on the field do you put him them ?

The misunderstanding is all yours. Yes he needs time.. he wont be the super star from teh get -go. but he needs to play there. Thats what he is in the team for..to play KPP. Hes no different from Franklin in the respect that you have to start...until you start you dont get better.

No the misunderstanding is once again yours.

MFC wont be throwing an 18yo kid into a KPF role for the whole of the season. Its just dumb. He will learn the role with a mixture of AFL/VFL exposure popssibly in a variety of forward positions as part of his development. This year is his first fuill pre season after a restricted and limited first year. Watts needs significant physical development to cope with AFL and has only just commenced that work since finishing school. His situation is quite different to Franklin in terms of his football and phyiscal development.

[beelzebub 23,378]

No the misunderstanding is once again yours.

MFC wont be throwing an 18yo kid into a KPF role for the whole of the season. Its just dumb. He will learn the role with a mixture of AFL/VFL exposure popssibly in a variety of forward positions as part of his development. This year is his first fuill pre season after a restricted and limited first year. Watts needs significant physical development to cope with AFL and has only just commenced that work since finishing school. His situation is quite different to Franklin in terms of his football and phyiscal development.

Again... with the neo-platitudes.. dear oh dear.

In case you arent aware..hes stacked on a little.. even to date.. He still has the bulk of the preseason to go..the real preseason.. what passes to date is mainly conditioning..not football.

i will agree he porbably wont play all of the real 22 at FF but he'll play most of the 22 in the seniors. and most of it at FF and CHF...thats what hes there for.. Other players in other teams manage the baptism.. We at melbourne.. what ...are weall second rate or such ? Of course not. Not everyone has to be molly coddled in cotton wool til they go grey in the hair.

Sometimes you have to persevere with the less than marvellous returns beofre you hit your straps.. but you have to be out there doing it. It will be a waste of time leaving him to curdle in the magoos.. He's already far above that .

He'll hold his own..and he'll get better.. but playing the real game.. where it counts. This ISNT his first year remember.. hes played a bit in teh VFL already...this is time to step up. Others manage it..so will he. He will improve in steps..

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Again... with the neo-platitudes.. dear oh dear.

In case you arent aware..hes stacked on a little.. even to date.. He still has the bulk of the preseason to go..the real preseason.. what passes to date is mainly conditioning..not football.

i will agree he porbably wont play all of the real 22 at FF but he'll play most of the 22 in the seniors. and most of it at FF and CHF...thats what hes there for.. Other players in other teams manage the baptism.. We at melbourne.. what ...are weall second rate or such ? Of course not. Not everyone has to be molly coddled in cotton wool til they go grey in the hair.

Sometimes you have to persevere with the less than marvellous returns beofre you hit your straps.. but you have to be out there doing it. It will be a waste of time leaving him to curdle in the magoos.. He's already far above that .

He'll hold his own..and he'll get better.. but playing the real game.. where it counts. This ISNT his first year remember.. hes played a bit in teh VFL already...this is time to step up. Others manage it..so will he. He will improve in steps..

In his first year he had very limited training and playing with no body development work.

Last year he was a skinny 18 yo with no intensive training and no development. He will need to build on more than what he has done to date. You dont gain the necessary body development in that short time. He has more development to go and it will take more than one pre season. Its a crushing role to play KPF roles and he will get some experience. At best he will be up for most of the 22 games but they wont be flogging him in a FF/CHF alot of the time.

Its got little to do with the less than marvellous returns but more about a player's development. Once again no one has said he will wallow in the VFL. However they have been a bit more astute to recognise the timing of matters and that in 2010 with the state of development of the younger players there is a short term bridging role for Miller.

[beelzebub 23,378]

where else does Watts play than as a KPP..thats his role.. thats his size.. thats his ability.

The Franklins of the world didnt set it alight from day one..they battled. So will Jack. He's not quite the skinny lad some seem to remember. He hasnt only just got into the gym folks.. He has been in our program for over a year now.

Bailey is also optimistic that second-year Demon Jack Watts can add more muscle over the pre-season.

At the moment he is 88 to 89 kgs. He is expected to enter next season at a playing weight of 92 or 93 kgs. The plan is to have him play at 94 or 95 kgs in 2011.

There is no magical day where upon a guarantee is written to ensure any particular level of return. Its honed from experience and practice. When you want to compete with the big boys you need to play with the big boys.. Look no further than the strides Trengove took when entering the arena called the SANFL. Not quite AFL.. at least as good, probably better than VFL..

Watts wont learn anything beating the players he already can

Edited December 10, 2009 by belzebub59

[Keyser Söze 0]

where else does Watts play than as a KPP..thats his role.. thats his size.. thats his ability.

The Franklins of the world didnt set it alight from day one..they battled. So will Jack. He's not quite the skinny lad some seem to remember. He hasnt only just got into the gym folks.. He has been in our program for over a year now.

I agree that Watts will battle like Franklin did, but Watts has spent plenty of time playing on a wing or a flank and doing quite well... this wouldn't be the role envisaged for him once fully developed, but whilst he grows and gets a feel for the game he could easily spend a bit of time in these positions. He's more than mobile enough.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

where else does Watts play than as a KPP..thats his role.. thats his size.. thats his ability.

The Franklins of the world didnt set it alight from day one..they battled. So will Jack. He's not quite the skinny lad some seem to remember. He hasnt only just got into the gym folks.. He has been in our program for over a year now.

Franklin played a variety of roles up forward. He also committed to full pre season after being drafted. Watts is almost a year behind in Buddy's development phase and Franklin was more physically developed at the age than Watts.

There is no magical day where upon a guarantee is written to ensure any particular level of return. Its honed from experience and practice. When you want to compete with the big boys you need to play with the big boys.. Look no further than the strides Trengove took when entering the arena called the SANFL. Not quite AFL.. at least as good, probably better than VFL..

Watts wont learn anything beating the players he already can

Agree there is no magicial day. But there is with your thinking. He will be eased into the role not thrown to the wolves. The club has wiser minds on this matter

Thanks for Bailey quote. It only validates the development stages Watts is in.

Trengove and players Rich are AFL ready for the roles they play and they had played a year of SANFL/WAFL. And the developmental side is different for bigger guys.

[beelzebub 23,378]

I am entirely nsure as to how the Bailey quote validates your stance at all RR it simply says he bigger..and will get bigger.

It seems convenient to forget Watts has already play for the most part a complete season in the VFL...hes not a newby.

Hes grown a bit since last he played there.

Whilst youre not throwing him to the wolves youre also not enlightening anyone as to how you envisage his use in the seniors. If he's not doing playing here or there...he must be somewhere.

Im only comparing Watts to where Buddy was...not is.. and Buddy well and truly found himself amongst wolves.. he rose to the occasion . They ( Hawks ) also played him for the greater part of his debut season..persisting with him. ( 20 out of 22 games ) Only injury put him back in the magoos.

Watts has served as much if not all of any apprenticeship needed in the VFL.. theres little for him to learn there..his peers and tutors are in the Firsts. Hes not that far off his eventual playing weight and thats a natural progression from here on in.

I suggest we'll differ.( again )

Watts playing a Key role will learn and blossom.. Miller adds little to any equation, especially one involving a scoreboard.

Millers style was/is to capture the ball too far out and then dither over its path forwards.. The NDS ( new delivery system )..aka.. as a much revamped and improved Midfield will make that role void. Melbourne will need marks/ gathers in the forward line.. Watts and Jurrah will take lead roles in that with the likely hood of bate either filling in at CHF or indeed making it his own.

Still it will all unfold soon enough

Go Dees

[jacey 333]

Im only comparing Watts to where Buddy was...not is.. and Buddy well and truly found himself amongst wolves.. he rose to the occasion . They ( Hawks ) also played him for the greater part of his debut season..persisting with him. ( 20 out of 22 games )

Lance Franklin wasn't thrown to the wolves and playing KPP from day dot.

He started and played a lot as a high forward/floating forward and wing while Hawks went with a mobile fwd line with Mark Williams and Ben Dixon leading from the square. He occasionally had short stints at playing FF and CHF but he was never the KPP target in his first year. As he got more games, his stints at KPP got larger. Buddy took some time as will Jack.

[beelzebub 23,378]

essentialy the same as watts played in his first year.. though mainly with the VFL.. in his second year..like Buddy...he will spend more and more time in a key position.

Watts will be in his second year at club.. and Buddy was doing watt again in his second year ?

The point is.. Watts needs neither to wallow in the magoos...nor venture too far from goals.

Happy to see what transpires

[Hobbits's 17]

It seems convenient to forget Watts has already play for the most part a complete season in the VFL...hes not a newby.

A-hem, how many games did Watts play in the VFL ?

I know he played 3 in the AFL.

To say he has already played (most part) a complete season in VFL .....is that not stretching it a fair bit ?

[Trisul 664]

A-hem, how many games did Watts play in the VFL ?

6

[beelzebub 23,378]

To say he has already played (most part) a complete season in VFL .....is that not stretching it a fair bit ?

well..just a tad.. must admit thought hed played 10 ( for reasons best known to self )

stand/sit corrected

[pitmaster 3,561]

Again... with the neo-platitudes.. dear oh dear.

i will agree he porbably wont play all of the real 22 at FF but he'll play most of the 22 in the seniors. and most of it at FF and CHF...thats what hes there for..

Sorry I've been slow to respond but I've been off the air (Big Night - Coronas, bubbly, white wine, red wine - you know the score, I'm sure).

Watts will play half forward flank, some time as an alternate or decoy FF but will not be given the main responsibility. He must be left to grow into the role and will do so over two to three years. If we try to use him to replace Miller he will get slaughtered.

The best example of someone thrown in too deeply too soon is Josh Fraser, also a highly rated number one pick. Malthouse said when drafting him he would not be asking much of him in his first season and then proceeded to play him every game IN THE RUCK. Ask any half sensible Pie supporters nowadays and they will tell you Malthouse's treatment amounted to abuse and ruined the bloke.

BTW what is a neo-platitude? I know of neo-nazis and neo-capitalism and neo-Liberals but this one has me tossed.

[Salems Lot 2,535]

Just talking to my new next door neighbour. Turns out he was Melbourne's Adelaide recruiting officer for the passed 12 years. He has just crossed over to the Toigs. Any how, we were talking about this last draft and when we came to discussing the 1st and 2nd selection I asked him who he would have picked first if hypothetically Watts had been in this draft rather than last year's. Without hesitation he said Watts over Scully. Reckons he is something pretty special. Went on to say that we are in great shape and should look forward to 2011 with great anticipation. I found his comments about Jack very reassuring. He went on to say that each draft produces a couple of great mid fielders but it is rare for it to produce a guy like Watts. Nice feedback.

By the way, huge raps for Tapscott, reckons he and Tregove will play round 1, Scully maybe a bit later.

Edited December 13, 2009 by glenn honey's dud brother

[Felix 92]

Just talking to my new next door neighbour. Turns out he was Melbourne's Adelaide recruiting officer for the passed 12 years. He has just crossed over to the Toigs. Any how, we were talking about this last draft and when we came to discussing the 1st and 2nd selection I asked him who he would have picked first if hypothetically Watts had been in this draft rather than last year's. Without hesitation he said Watts over Scully. Reckons he is something pretty special. Went on to say that we are in great shape and should look forward to 2011 with great anticipation. I found his comments about Jack very reassuring. He went on to say that each draft produces a couple of great mid fielders but it is rare for it to produce a guy like Watts. Nice feedback.

By the way, huge raps for Tapscott, reckons he and Tregove will play round 1, Scully maybe a bit later.

Good to hear this about Watts, I'm sick of all my mates bagging him saying he is [censored], blah blah blah. I guess they are pretty jealous we picked him up.

When I read Tapscott & Trengove were mates, I was hoping that MFC would draft Tapscott. Pumped for 2010 & beyond.

[beelzebub 23,378]

BTW what is a neo-platitude? I know of neo-nazis and neo-capitalism and neo-Liberals but this one has me tossed.

really.. there you go

neo..can be ..new, different of modified.. plattitude ...Im sure youre more than well acquainted with.

basically... not quite up to a real jibe...but you tried

[Hobbits's 17]

well..just a tad.. must admit thought hed played 10 ( for reasons best known to self )

stand/sit corrected

So he played 6 in the VFL; 3 in AFL. (9 in total)

He didn't even register having played half-a-season (11 games). Nothing like exaggerating to beat one's chest.

[beelzebub 23,378]

So he played 6 in the VFL; 3 in AFL. (9 in total)

He didn't even register having played half-a-season (11 games). Nothing like exaggerating to beat one's chest.

for what its worth..i didnt exaggerate..i got it wrong .Simple as that, i thought he had played 10 in the ressies. So be it.

thankyou for adding illustriously to the thread