Brock McLean has left the building

[e25 5]

look at that...some great players have come from pick 11 all of wich are better and always will be better then brock mclean...sure there is a big chance that if we get pick 11 it wont turn out to be a lenny hayes but you never no and brock mclean aint gonna turn out to be a lenny hayes

One in the hand is worth 2 in the draft...

Not a high success rate with pick 11. But hey, I don't care if its a weaker draft, I'm happy to gamble away the club's future! Roll the dice Barry!

Idiots. <_<

[JACKATTACK 17]

look at that...some great players have come from pick 11 all of wich are better and always will be better then brock mclean...sure there is a big chance that if we get pick 11 it wont turn out to be a lenny hayes but you never no and brock mclean aint gonna turn out to be a lenny hayes

I'd have Brock ahead of Winderlich, but then I would have Brad Johnson ahead of Brock.

4/23 ? No thanks.

Even if you don't rate Brock he's stil better than at least 15 of those listed.

[Daz's Dee's 113]

What ?

Scully would have been top 3 this year. Rich slid because recruiters knew that he struggled with hard tags, lacked pace and had poor endurance. Scully on the other hand has shown that by comparison he doesn't struggle in the same regard. Most people in footy would have known that Rich would have performed roughly at the level he has this year, it's his upside from here that raises doubts. He'll be a fine 200 game player, but Scully will have a better career than Rich. Rich had the benefit of other teams sitting on Black and Power, but in time they'll sit on him. I reckon he'll struggle. Scully would have also been ranked ahead of Hill and Hartlett.

In Adelaide the football commentators say that Trengove's SANFL career shades Bryce Gibbs at the corresponding stage. Hartlett went at pick 4 and Trengove is better.

Also, this draft may well be thin outside the top 8, or so, but it can only be judged 4-5 years down the track. I'll back our recruiters if they see value anywhere in the first dozen.

McLean, McDonald, Jones, and Moloney are too similar. Obviously McDonald is only around for one more year, but I'd definately be trying to trade one of the other 3. It just makes sense, especially with Grimes, Scully and Sylvia playing more midfield next year. We have the worst midfield in the league, yet some supporters want to retain average one paced players.

Mate i totally agree with everything you say,

Scully is an 18 year old skinny boddied kid but my god can play, has class and the tank to run all day

Trengove IMO was the stand out player in the under 18 carnival and is getting better from reports he is all but as good as Gibbs in the same league

And i also agree with Jones, Moloney and Mclean one has to go..... Mclean is the most skillfull out of the lot but is far too slow and always has been the other too are just HARD nuts and will be fully complemented with some class around them Grimes, Sylvia, Davey and younger brigade Scully, Trengrove (fingers crossed), blease and co

[e25 5]

And i also agree with Jones, Moloney and Mclean one has to go..... Mclean is the most skillfull out of the lot but is far too slow and always has been the other too are just HARD nuts and will be fully complemented with some class around them Grimes, Sylvia, Davey and younger brigade Scully, Trengrove (fingers crossed), blease and co

Junior will be gone in a year - can't we ride out a little team imbalance until then..?

Its not like the rest of our list is in perfect harmony and we would win a flag but for this one area.

[old55 21,656]

Firstly, right now we have no 'stars', dafacat.

Indeed, with the exception of Watts, Morton, Grimes and possibly Jurrah and Frawley any offer of a 1st rounder for any of our players would have to be seriously considered

McLean is never going to be a star. FFS, he's not as good as Luke Ball who's border line at the Saints.

It's a good comparison and illustrates what we risk.

Pick 11 might give us access to a KPF that doesn't warrant pick 2 but wont make it to pick 18.

Best case we're looking at 5th or 6th best KPF at pick 18.

[Guest straussski]

I'd have Brock ahead of Winderlich, but then I would have Brad Johnson ahead of Brock.

4/23 ? No thanks.

Even if you don't rate Brock he's stil better than at least 15 of those listed.

do u really think that brock mclean has more of an effect on games games then jason winderlich...i mean you dont see brock ever charging through the center of the ground and finishing of with a goal.

it sounds like a good deal to me

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

The deal that has been put forward is Pick #11 for Brock McLean + swap of 3rd rounders.

[Ryan Dee 140]

The deal that has been put forward is Pick #11 for Brock McLean + swap of 3rd rounders.

I would rather Brock Mclean. Who would we get for pick 11? and are we that desperate for the person we would get at pick 11 that we would give up Brock Mclean, IMO no way. Unless Melbourne Already have their eyes set on someone for pick 11 and they think this player is going to be one of our best then there is no point gambling on it just for the sake of the it

Edited September 23, 2009 by Mr Morton

[e25 5]

do u really think that brock mclean has more of an effect on games games then jason winderlich...i mean you dont see brock ever charging through the center of the ground and finishing of with a goal.

it sounds like a good deal to me

Ok then, straight up trade - Brock for Winderlich - would you do it?

I wouldn't even consider it. Winderlich is a decidedly average player. At least Brock is a good ordinary player.

[e25 5]

I would rather Brock Mclean. Who would we get for pick 11? and are we that desperate for the person we would get at pick 11 that we would give up Brock Mclean, IMO no way. Unless Melbourne Already have their eyes set on someone for pick 11 and they think this player is going to be one of our best then there is no point gambling on it just for the sake of the it

I'm of exactly the same opinion really, and I think its a big gamble considering the draft and the player we want could easily be gone by then...

[censored] it. Roll the dice Barry.

I've got faith you'll make the right decision.

(is this what its like to be religious?)

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

One of the biggest misconceptions going around footballing circles at the moment - is about how this draft is "weak" from early on.

Pick #11 will net you a player around the Tapscott/Talia region - it is by no means a bad pick.

Its clear that Carlton have identified that they have need for a tough in and under extractor of the pill to their midfielders.

Hadley may be on his way back to Brisbane if the media is to be beleived - and the Carlton forward line being "shallow" fallacy is being corrected with active recruiting of their defensive unit (Spangher, Gibson, Everitt, McGuire).

Come the end of the day - it will all depend on whether Brock wants to move on or not.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde

[Guest straussski]

Ok then, straight up trade - Brock for Winderlich - would you do it?

I wouldn't even consider it. Winderlich is a decidedly average player. At least Brock is a good ordinary player.

no i would not do it because i dont rate winderlich that much either but i rate him higher then brock...but i think we could get a good KPF with pick 11 if this trade happens

[Hannabal 4]

Ok then, straight up trade - Brock for Winderlich - would you do it?

I wouldn't even consider it. Winderlich is a decidedly average player. At least Brock is a good ordinary player.

Over their career to date McLean has been the better player. In 2009 Winderlich was the decidedly better player - faster and far more influential in games.

I'd trade McLean in a heart beat for Callan Ward, a former pick 19. It's folly to look at previous pick 11's and make an assessment on whether a trade is justified or not. It gets back to who the club believes is likely to be available at a given pick and where they see a player's future given an ever evolving list. Jones is the best clearance player at the club and markedly improved his decision making and kicking in the second half of the year. And right now Moloney is about equal with McLean, but had a better year than McLean. Who has more value in the market out of Moloney and McLean ? McLean. Who's harder at the contest out of the two ? Moloney.

Pick 11 for McLean ? Where do I sign.

This is my preferred 2012 side as we speak:

Bennell Warnock Garland

Strauss Frawley Green

Blease Moloney Morton

Sylvia Watts Trengove

Wonaeamiri Jurrah Bate

Ruck Grimes Scully

I/C Ruck Davey Maric Jones

Naturally there'll be a few changes along the way. But I can't fit in a slow mid like McLean, especially when he's not overly clean or damaging. The reason we're currently last is that we had a club that wouldn't make the very decisions that some are advocating now.

[Ryan Dee 140]

Who are we going to pay if Mclean left? We would have to sign a big name otherwise we wouldn't make the minmum salary cap?

Anyway I still don't think Melbourne would get rid of him for pick 11. I trust Mclean's loyalty.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Mr Morton

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

Who are we going to pay if Mclean left? We would have to sign a big name otherwise we wouldn't make the minmum salary cap?

Anyway I still don't think Melbourne would get rid of him for pick 11.

Follow the Hawthorn model and provide front loaded contracts for young players like Morton etc.

Not only will it solve the TPP issue - it will help later on when Scully and co come out of contract and seek bigger dollars.

[JACKATTACK 17]

I don't see the need to trade away one of the Jones, Moloney or Mclean. They have exactly what we need if we intend to introduce two skilled, quick (Scully at least can't speak for Trengove?) mids. Strength for protection, leadership and passion to show them the way. If Melbourne is seeking this trade I will be very upset.

[e25 5]

Follow the Hawthorn model and provide front loaded contracts for young players like Morton etc.

Not only will it solve the TPP issue - it will help later on when Scully and co come out of contract and seek bigger dollars.

Not if they're only 2 year contracts - they'd need to be longer to get it right.

[e25 5]

One of the biggest misconceptions going around footballing circles at the moment - is about how this draft is "weak" from early on.

Pick #11 will net you a player around the Tapscott/Talia region - it is by no means a bad pick.

Its clear that Carlton have identified that they have need for a tough in and under extractor of the pill to their midfielders.

Hadley may be on his way back to Brisbane if the media is to be beleived - and the Carlton forward line being "shallow" fallacy is being corrected with active recruiting of their defensive unit (Spangher, Gibson, Everitt, McGuire).

Come the end of the day - it will all depend on whether Brock wants to move on or not.

I agree with you here too, I just don't think that its a move we need to make and I don't necessarily think it will make us better.

I still really rate Brock despite his injury riddled past 18 months and I would not trade him.

Good thing I'm not Barry Prendergast

[e25 5]

I get the feeling this decision will end up being just like the TJ trade

[Ryan Dee 140]

Follow the Hawthorn model and provide front loaded contracts for young players like Morton etc.

Not only will it solve the TPP issue - it will help later on when Scully and co come out of contract and seek bigger dollars.

I thought this was already in place? Even with Brock I thought we were struggling to make it, but maybe not. Anyway It will be interesting to see what Brock does.

I don't see the need to trade away one of the Jones, Moloney or Mclean. They have exactly what we need if we intend to introduce two skilled, quick (Scully at least can't speak for Trengove?) mids. Strength for protection, leadership and passion to show them the way. If Melbourne is seeking this trade I will be very upset.

I don't think Melbourne are or would have been seeking the trade, more that they have been offered it? only assuming though.

Edited September 23, 2009 by Mr Morton

[rpfc 27,646]

Naturally there'll be a few changes along the way. But I can't fit in a slow mid like McLean, especially when he's not overly clean or damaging. The reason we're currently last is that we had a club that wouldn't make the very decisions that some are advocating now.

You make a compelling case, and I often wonder whether Maric, Blease, Scully, Trengove, and Bennell will force out one or more of McLean, Moloney, and Jones.

If I was to trade, after 2008, one of those three it would have been Jones. If I was to trade now, it would be McLean.

However, I just don't see the need to do that trade this year.

It's a widely known fact that McLean had an interrupted preseason and dealt with a few injury issues during the season.

If offered Pick 11 I would ask BP if there was a precocious talent still available. Given the eligibility changes, BP may say that the talent on offer falls away before pick 11.

If BP says 'no', then I would continue on and reassess after 2010. After all, McLean may still have injury issues, Moloney might have more problems with OP, or Jones might digress.

If they all play OK in 2010, and we still feel the team is not balanced - well, there will GC17 willing to throw picks and big bucks around to entice clubs and players to move on.

Edited September 23, 2009 by rpfc

[old55 21,656]

... I would ask BP if there was a procoscious talent still available ...

Someone with a big nose or maybe trouble staying awake?

[jabberwocky 2,301]

maybe even someone who sleeps around a lot

[Mousey 47]

not sure if true or not.

But thought if we were drafting scully and trengove with out first two picks that one of Moloney, Jones or Brock would have to go.

People thinking pick 11 will replace Brock Mclean wouldnt be the thinking behind the move, trengove and scully are the two replacing him. pick 11 would be a very handy pick to choose a KPP that may not be there at pick 18.

I love brock but there are too many ifs .... if he can regain his form of 06 after a good pre-season. The leg speed has also always worried me.

I think Nate Jones and Moloney are more valuable to the club in my personal opinion.

A mid unit of-

Jones, Moloney, Sylvia, Davey,Grimes, Scully, Trengove, Blease, Strauss, etc are enough for myn going forward.

[Gorgoroth 12,363]

If we trade McLean i burnt he club to the ground and salt it.