There is no God.

[DeeMfc 621]

Quote of the day -

Never get into an argument with an idiot.

They'll only bring you down to their level.

and beat you with experience........

I think it's pretty black and white really

Edited September 14, 2009 by DeeMfc

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

Post deleted.

Edited September 16, 2009 by Fan

[sideshowbob 0]

There's nothing wrong with opposition supporters posting here. Some of the best comments on this board have been from Ash34, an Essendon fan.

And as much as I would like to spill beer on Old Xav, it's only because of his comment which was deliberately intended to fire us up - his comments about the youth of the Collingwood players are not far off the mark. We're not much younger...

Edited September 16, 2009 by sideshowbob

[Guest The Old Xaverian]

his comments about the youth of the Collingwood players are not far off the mark. We're not much younger...

I think the side that won on Saturday, was younger than the side that Collingwood played against on QB. If you add Beams (19) & Pendlebury (21) who are automatic inclusions, the Collingwood side is a great deal younger than Melbourne's side. Like Sidebottom & Beams in 08, I have no doubt we'll outdraft you yet again. Our players are simply developed much better in a winning culture.

[Slartibartfast 17,632]

I think it should be policy that opposition supporters (or at least Filth supporters) should not be able to post here. Firstly, because they only comment about their own team which I could not give about.

Wrong. Opposition supporters are welcome to post here so long as they don't troll.

IMO comparing drafting performances is quite relevant and is not trolling. If you don't like the input then don't read it.

I've deleted your post and consider it a first and final warning. If you are upset about something an opposition supporter says PM a mod, don't take the law into your own hands or you'll be denied access to the site.

That applies to everyone.

Thanks

Fan

[Slartibartfast 17,632]

I think the side that won on Saturday, was younger than the side that Collingwood played against on QB. If you add Beams (19) & Pendlebury (21) who are automatic inclusions, the Collingwood side is a great deal younger than Melbourne's side. Like Sidebottom & Beams in 08, I have no doubt we'll outdraft you yet again. Our players are simply developed much better in a winning culture.

There is much in what you say but the point I think you're missing is the success of teams depends on their experienced elite and Melbourne don't have any at the moment. Davis, Didak, Pendlebury and Swan make up a fantastic midfield and are all dangerous with three of the four able to kick goals as well. Maxwell is very very good and I a huge fan of O'Brien and Shaw. Your recruiting last year was exceptional and Sidebottom and Beams will be very good for you but seem to lack the explosive abilities of your elite.

Our top end players are plain vanilla. Our hope rests with our youth where we have a number of players who may become very good. Only time will tell. Jurrah, Watts, Blease, Scully, Garland and Morton all show significant potential. If none of these players become elite our rebuild will fail to produce a flag, it's just as simple as that.

Until Bailey and Connolly came we had terrible player development. Daniher had a mature squad and development was seen as a low priority. Bailey and Connolly have a completely different approach which I hope can emulate the Collingwood success because without doubt your team is one that gets the maximium out of itself. I was at the game Saturday and it was a fantastic effort by Collingwood against a very good team. Interestingly Collingwood and Adelaide are IMO the two benchmarks of the competition for the way they are drilled and prepared.

My concern for Collingwood is where you get your elite players. Historically elite players come from early picks and as of this draft we will have 14 top 20 players on our list.

Who do you see as your potential elite? Reid has been disappointing, Brown looks solid rather than elite, Pendlebury will be elite for a long time but Thomas a little disappointing.

Your exceptional overall performance has denied you access to elite talent and it will again this year. With compromised drafts for the next three years no club is going to be able to stockpile low picks (other than GC and GWS obviously) which will make it really hard for you.

It's going to be interesting to see how it unfolds.

[Sir Why You Little 37,134]

I stated on here that my First ever game of Footy i saw was the 1970 Grand Final, The Greatest Performance of the Colliwobbles ever to exist (77 was a ripper aswell, & yes i was there!!) & my post got deleted by the thought police..Why??

Watching Collingwood lose premierships i do not find offensive at all. Grow Up.

[Rogue 585]

Like you, I didn't see much improvement, but I didn't see as much disaster as what happened. I don't think many supporters actually do.

It's not that I didn't see much improvement, it's that I saw a decline. However, I didn't see the extent of the decline that occurred. Then again, I'm not sure how anyone could - injuries hastened our fall dramatically (but it's probably a good thing we bottomed out quite rapidly).

Getting back to the fallacy that we're old, our best side is actually younger than yours.

Who is in your best side and what's the age?

Given how few of our best 22 are older than mid-20's I'd be surprised at that.

[Nasher 33,617]

Who is in your best side and what's the age?

Given how few of our best 22 are older than mid-20's I'd be surprised at that.

The other question is how do you define 'youngest?' I too have a hard time believing that anyone's side could be as weighted towards youth as ours.

[Guest delicious jurrah coffee]

I think the side that won on Saturday, was younger than the side that Collingwood played against on QB. If you add Beams (19) & Pendlebury (21) who are automatic inclusions, the Collingwood side is a great deal younger than Melbourne's side. Like Sidebottom & Beams in 08, I have no doubt we'll outdraft you yet again. Our players are simply developed much better in a winning culture.

collingwood have 1 flag in 50 seasons, and in the late 90s were dispicable, if 1 flag in 50seasons is a winning culture imagine whats ahead when you start losing, the cats are going to pull your pants down and have there way with you on the weekend.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Ok...

So thus far we have mentioned how Melbourne's list is GOING to be younger, as we have so many older players that will no longer be at the club.

We mention that games played has more relevance than "youth."

And so far, that's about half a dozen posts that don't acknowledge OUR points the way we have acknowledged HIS.

To sum up. Old Xav, you've done nothing to disprove the well-held belief that your supporters are one-eyed morons. Posting in response to you is worse than talking to a brick wall.

Again. Have fun on Saturday, and we'll see you on draft day with your pick 14, where you can apparently out-do us with your recruiting again. Likewise we'll see how many flags our "second-rate" recruits will net us compared to yours in ten years time. And we'll see who's better Cloke/Anthony/whoever else you have kicking your goals vs Watts/Jurrah/whoever else we have kicking our goals.

I wonder who people would be more likely to draft NOW. Anthony or Watts?

[Rogue 585]

The other question is how do you define 'youngest?'

Age is a pretty common way

PS. Fix the server time!

[Nasher 33,617]

Age is a pretty common way

PS. Fix the server time!

Yes, thanks for that. I meant, in what way to you aggregate the ages? Median/mean average, split in to groups etc. Each is going to give you a different ranking for age.

PS only certain times I can do that (i.e. when I'm not at work) -- later!

[Guest The Old Xaverian]

I wonder who people would be more likely to draft NOW. Anthony or Watts?

Jack is 21. Watts is 18. That's a pretty silly comparison isn't it?

I think you would be more than happy if Watts kicks 50 goals in his 2nd full season wouldn't you?

Again. Have fun on Saturday, and we'll see you on draft day with your pick 14, where you can apparently out-do us with your recruiting again.

Who knows, we might have Pick 17. Sidebottom/Beams were taken at 12 & 29 & have done much more than your Number 1 Pick & other high picks.

[Slartibartfast 17,632]

To sum up. Old Xav, you've done nothing to disprove the well-held belief that your supporters are one-eyed morons.

Nor have most of the posts in response.

FHS DD, do you find one Collingwood supporter argueing a case for his club to be so threatening? In case you haven't noticed Collngwood have had one year where they have "gone to the trough"(2005). Since we were in our last GF they have been in two GF's and two Preliminary finals (with one still live) and a semi final. They've done it on the back of terrible recruiting in the early 2000's and they are getting fantastic results from some excellent mature players and a group of promising young kids.

If you think we've nothing to learn from them then your very blinkered.

OX is not here to support our view and I think it's healthy to have someone from outside challenge us. If you don't like it don't read it and just go along with the group think that is the very essence of club footy forums.

[Slartibartfast 17,632]

Who knows, we might have Pick 17. Sidebottom/Beams were taken at 12 & 29 & have done much more than your Number 1 Pick & other high picks.

Watts is a tall, he's also very young. Comparing a young tall to a couple of nuggety mids it silly IMO. Deledio did more than Franklin in 2005. Blease had a broken leg in 2009 and Strauss shoulder and ankle problems. You're probably just responding to type but your arguments don't really carry water IMO.

[Guest The Old Xaverian]

Watts is a tall, he's also very young. Comparing a young tall to a couple of nuggety mids it silly IMO. Deledio did more than Franklin in 2005. Blease had a broken leg in 2009 and Strauss shoulder and ankle problems. You're probably just responding to type but your arguments don't really carry water IMO.

I've seen Watts play numerous games in the APS. I also hold a close opinion with someone who coaches against him (in the APS) & is a WC Recruiter. Watts considering what was taken after him (i.e. Hurley) appears a mistake.

[Slartibartfast 17,632]

I've seen Watts play numerous games in the APS. I also hold a close opinion with someone who coaches against him (in the APS) & is a WC Recruiter. Watts considering what was taken after him (i.e. Hurley) appears a mistake.

If Watts is a mistake against Hurley what do you make of Reid/Brown v Frawley, Thomas against Ellis and Higgins and Roughead v Frankin. Brown was clearly ahead of Frawley in year one but not many would argue he's ahead of him now. Thomas was ahead of Ellis and Higgins but isn't now, he's a distant 3rd. At the end of year one Roughhead was ahead of Franklin and Kossi ahead of Reiwoldt. Jonathon Brown in his first 3 games did significantly less than Watts but had a body far more prepared for AFL footy and played in a much better team.

I really rate Hurley but I'm not upset with Watts. I know enough people in the game who rate him very highly.

[Guest The Old Xaverian]

If Watts is a mistake against Hurley what do you make of Reid/Brown v Frawley, Thomas against Ellis and Higgins and Roughead v Frankin. Brown was clearly ahead of Frawley in year one but not many would argue he's ahead of him now. Thomas was ahead of Ellis and Higgins but isn't now, he's a distant 3rd. At the end of year one Roughhead was ahead of Franklin and Kossi ahead of Reiwoldt. Jonathon Brown in his first 3 games did significantly less than Watts but had a body far more prepared for AFL footy and played in a much better team.

I really rate Hurley but I'm not upset with Watts. I know enough people in the game who rate him very highly.

Brown took on Pavilich, Brown & Richo in his first even and beat 2 of those broke even with the other as a 20 Year Old. He has huge upside & had a good year last year, this YR, his place has been taken by the next best FB in the league after Lake/Scarlett.

Reid on the other hand was the youngest player taken in the 06 Draft is still 19. He has been dominating in the VFL as a dominant CHB. These 2 will improve our side by quite a bit (you can throw in Dawes, who was just as good as Hawkins at an APS level & can't get a game b/c Cloke (22) & Anthony (21) are ahead of him.

As for Thomas, I wouldn't have him for Ellis. Thomas is a match winner & was crucial on Saturday night (he got over 30 disposals in another finals win). Ellis is skilled but his slight build is already going against him, he has been exposed on that front this year.

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

I think the side that won on Saturday, was younger than the side that Collingwood played against on QB. If you add Beams (19) & Pendlebury (21) who are automatic inclusions, the Collingwood side is a great deal younger than Melbourne's side. Like Sidebottom & Beams in 08, I have no doubt we'll outdraft you yet again. Our players are simply developed much better in a winning culture.

Is that the same winning culture that saw you lose your last 11 games of the 2005 season to just sneak in a priority pick before the rules were changed?

Sidebottom and Beams may turn out to be handy players, but it is much easier to look better in a team playing well and winning games. The likes of Brad Miller and Clint Bartram looked like much better players for us when they were playing as youngsters in winning seasons, now they are struggling to hold their spot in the bottom placed team.

Some of your other rising stars of the past few years you were sprouting about such as Brown, Clarke and Goldsack struggle to get consistent senior games at the moment, where is their development taking them?

It is very easy to get on the boards of the bottom placed side when your team is in a preliminary final and start talking smack, i doubt back in 2005 you would have been trolling through the likes of the Crows, Swans and Eagles fan forums spreading the Collingwood gospel according to Old Xavs.

[Slartibartfast 17,632]

Brown took on Pavilich, Brown & Richo in his first even and beat 2 of those broke even with the other as a 20 Year Old. He has huge upside & had a good year last year, this YR, his place has been taken by the next best FB in the league after Lake/Scarlett.

Reid on the other hand was the youngest player taken in the 06 Draft is still 19. He has been dominating in the VFL as a dominant CHB. These 2 will improve our side by quite a bit (you can throw in Dawes, who was just as good as Hawkins at an APS level & can't get a game b/c Cloke (22) & Anthony (21) are ahead of him.

As for Thomas, I wouldn't have him for Ellis. Thomas is a match winner & was crucial on Saturday night (he got over 30 disposals in another finals win). Ellis is skilled but his slight build is already going against him, he has been exposed on that front this year.

You seem to have missed the point.

Thanks

[Bucks-Fan 1]

I don't see the collywobbles winning a flag with there current list for a long time

If they do.. i will lose all hope

[H_T 3,049]

I think the side that won on Saturday, was younger than the side that Collingwood played against on QB. If you add Beams (19) & Pendlebury (21) who are automatic inclusions, the Collingwood side is a great deal younger than Melbourne's side. Like Sidebottom & Beams in 08, I have no doubt we'll outdraft you yet again.

Based on what Melbourne side? The round 22 side that had retirees Whelan, Wheatley & Robbo? The next time these sides meet we'll definitely have the youngest 'side'.

It's no wonder you're one eyed.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Jack is 21. Watts is 18. That's a pretty silly comparison isn't it?

I think you would be more than happy if Watts kicks 50 goals in his 2nd full season wouldn't you?

Yes. He hasn't PLAYED his second season yet, is not 21, and next year will be, in many ways, his first full season.

I'll ask it again... and again I'll expect the answer to be ignored. Who (except for you) do you think would take Watts over Anthony? I'll spell it out nice and clear for you. Every football department, recruiter, coach and team in Australian rules football would take Watts over Anthony. Including the Collingwood football club. That's a fact. Try to disagree with that and I can't take you seriously anymore.

Who knows, we might have Pick 17. Sidebottom/Beams were taken at 12 & 29 & have done much more than your Number 1 Pick & other high picks.

HA!

Ok. So Beams and Sidebottom have done more that what picks? Watts and Blease? Watts has played only a few games and didn't have any preseason, as well as being a tall. Blease broke his leg. Other top picks: which ones, since you're an expert on MFC's list? Strauss who was hurt midyear too? Have those two players done more than Sylvia and McLean?!! Hardly. Any others up your sleeve? Or, as I suspect, do you know about as much about our list as you do the amount of hairs on my backside?

Nor have most of the posts in response.

This really made me laugh...

FHS DD, do you find one Collingwood supporter argueing a case for his club to be so threatening?

Not at all. When did I say I felt threatened? I don't believe I did. Am I annoyed? Sure... Something akin to when you have a poppy seed stuck inbetween your teeth, this kid.

In case you haven't noticed Collngwood have had one year where they have "gone to the trough"(2005).

Aaaah. Yes. I know. I brought that up. How do you define going to the trough though? Besides... have you been paying attention? My position is that Collingwood's desire NOT to bottom out has still led to wooden spoons, and has led to them getting... count them... zero flags. You think the football world cares that they performed admirably against the Lions in their glory years? No. You think the world believes they DIDN'T buy their players? No. I'm not going to feel ashamed that my club has taken full advantage of the draft to do all it can to ensure its survival and ultimate success.

Since we were in our last GF they have been in two GF's and two Preliminary finals (with one still live) and a semi final. They've done it on the back of terrible recruiting in the early 2000's and they are getting fantastic results from some excellent mature players and a group of promising young kids.

Again. I have not disproven this. They have done an excellent job, with a great coach, and a lot of money/recruiting resources that WE DON'T HAVE. But this and the two GFs earlier this decade is their ceiling. Were you not paying attention? They've won exactly 0 flags with their approach. This was really my only reason for posting. Just kindly reminding the Pies supporter that they'll win as many flags as us, but will take home nothing like the draft picks we will. How do I justify this? We made a GF less than ten years ago and it has meant NOTHING. We're talking future flags here, not how well the poor old pies have done with the limited resources they have at hand.

If you think we've nothing to learn from them then your very blinkered.

Oh wise sage, what would that be? That they've recruited better?... I will say that we have a lot to learn in terms of coaching, and what we CAN learn is only achieved by watching them go about it. None of these details can be learned by me, only by our footy department and club. Or by Xav for that matter. Oh... and I would say that once they're finished learning from the Saints (who bottomed out, incidentally), Hawks (likewise), Geelong, Dogs (again...) and Crows, THEN perhaps they can look and see if the pies are doing anything better... barring the obvious thing. Having a LOT more money.

OX is not here to support our view and I think it's healthy to have someone from outside challenge us. If you don't like it don't read it and just go along with the group think that is the very essence of club footy forums.

Ok. Calm down Fan. I had a go at him, at his twisted logic, and meaningless one-sided stat regurgitation, and so far NOTHING I have said has been disproven. Neither is anything I have said ridiculous. My only mistake will possibly come tomorrow, should my prediction end up wrong.

You want to talk about blinkered? You need to take a closer look at what this clown has posted. Why is he here, Fan? Is he here to DISCUSS football? To add to this site and its forums? To ask for a point of view from outside his club? He responded to this thread because I had a good-spirited jab at Anthony's little sooky he had at the end of the game (the same as EVERYONE in the football community outside of Collingwood) OldXav is here to s%#tstir... If you can't see how that's something to retaliate to on our home turf, and NOT to defend, then I know who's posts I'LL be ignoring in future.

Is this what 'land has come to? Mods defending antics of opposition pests? This place is going downhill fast. I'm all for inter-club banter, as long as it's holy. Ash is a GREAT example of how to behave on an opposition site. This guy doesn't deserve to be put in the same sentence. Joffa came on here a few years ago (or so his screen-name claimed) and even he was FAR more polite.

Watts is a tall, he's also very young. Comparing a young tall to a couple of nuggety mids it silly IMO. Deledio did more than Franklin in 2005. Blease had a broken leg in 2009 and Strauss shoulder and ankle problems. You're probably just responding to type but your arguments don't really carry water IMO.

Now let's let this marinate and see what happens.

I've seen Watts play numerous games in the APS. I also hold a close opinion with someone who coaches against him (in the APS) & is a WC Recruiter. Watts considering what was taken after him (i.e. Hurley) appears a mistake.

Are you so certain your club would have taken him had they had pick 1, 2, 3 or any picks before him? No. You wouldn't know the first thing.... Oh and as for WC recruiters, they have said publicly that had we taken Nicnat, they'd have taken Watts with their next pick. And you saw Watts play in the APS... Good. Well then you must know everything about the quality of the kid.

Any more inane babble from you?

You seem to have missed the point.

Thanks

Wow. Knock me over with a feather.

Missed the point? Or DELIBERATELY AVOIDED the point?

I'll say it again, and then I'm leaving this poor excuse for a thread (that was intended to be read by MFC supporters and sypathisers ONLY) alone. You want to come to an MFC supporter website, you show some respect, or you're shown none by its inhabitants. When I break the rules Fan, you let me know... and I'm sure you will. Outside of that, I'll take up with Old Xav what I want to take up with him. And I'll say this, I genuinely hope he sticks around!!! Just what the world needs. Another one-eyed Pies supporter...

[Rogue 585]

The Old Xaverian made a decent point re: the need for good development in order to make the most of each draftee's potential.

With a better fixture we can pour more money into the footy department.

You don't mind some Sunday twilight games do you, Old Xav?

PS. In case my previous post seemed insignificant in the face of Dappa Dan's 'bigger than Ben Hur' contributions to this thread, I'm keen to know what your best 22 is.