any of you going to complain about the 4 goals Watts kicked yesterday?

Yes.

i thought it was one of his softer games. He didn't hit bodies when he should have, he didn't chase as hard as he should have and in general he tiptoed around the edges. There are times when you have to hit your opponents body first with your torso when flying for a mark. You do this to better position yourself and have them off balance. Watts avoids this and missed marks he should have taken accordingly.

He's a terribly soft footballer. But yes, he's a great set shot for goal.

any of you going to complain about the 4 goals Watts kicked yesterday?

Ben Hur's answer: "Yes."

That was a pretty odd response to a simple question, Ben. Sure you went on to complain about Watts "softness", but in doing so you'd moved on from the question, and were just reiterating your usual point of criticism of Watts as a player. If what you wrote is read as an answer to the question, it is just silly: kicking goals is the essential thing for winning - even more fundamental than being tough. If a "soft" Watts kicked 4 goals every week he would be a champion, no matter what you think.

The fact is, you weren't complaining about the 4 goals Watts kicked yesterday - you were simply not budging from your opinion about him as a player, which is for you non-negotiable irrespective of goals he kicks. Rendering his performance (in what is the essential of the game for forwards) irrelevant to what you think is the real issue. You are sounding a bit like Neeld, in that when you consider our players you appear to be applying a pre-determined template, disregarding what the players are actually like.

Edited September 2, 201311 yr by robbiefrom13

Yes.

Ben, you have made your point about Watts not being tough, and clearly intend to go on making it till the world listens. But that is a pretty odd response to a simple question. Sure you went on to complain about Watts "softness", but by then you'd moved on from the question, and your answer to the question is just silly. Kicking goals is the essential thing for winning - even more fundamental than being tough. If a "soft" Watts kicks 4 goals every week he will be a champion.

I can only be honest. I was very disappointed with his game yesterday. In particular his marking attempts. But half-hearted chasing efforts were also obvious.

You may think I'm a broken record, but it's the player in question who hasn't changed in the last 5 years and my observations remain the same accordingly.

If i was applauding his efforts you'd have no problem. Do you only want to hear nice comments ?

coaching move of the year yesterday

once he was subbed on after half time,we had a chance

its undeniable that he tip toes around the edges. can courage be taught ? i dont think so, and i reckon roosy will move him on

its undeniable that he tip toes around the edges. can courage be taught ? i dont think so, and i reckon roosy will move him on

got in trouble for saying this earlier this year

you cant shovel gutz into a coward

morale of the story :you cant invent bravery

Wasn't Matthew Lloyd hit with "soft" tags early on, and he then went out of his way to get physical?

I hate the bloke, but he could be an effective role model for jack

I have judged Jack very harshly as a player, kinda part of the deal when you go pick 1, but i think he would be a really good forward with some half decent delivery, he has been okay this year, two weeks ago i was all for trading him, now i'm not sure.

Yes.

i thought it was one of his softer games. He didn't hit bodies when he should have, he didn't chase as hard as he should have and in general he tiptoed around the edges. There are times when you have to hit your opponents body first with your torso when flying for a mark. You do this to better position yourself and have them off balance. Watts avoids this and missed marks he should have taken accordingly.

He's a terribly soft footballer. But yes, he's a great set shot for goal.

I thought the same thing.

Typical Jack Watts, with soft efforts and laziness on display for all to see.

But come the end of the game, I thought to myself "Christ, if Watts can play like that and finish with a lazy 4 goals, imagine what he could do if Roos turns him into a real footballer..."

If Roos sees fit to persevere with him, I'll be pretty happy.

If he'd rather use him to get a Selwood or Adams, fine by me.

Watts leading at the football yesterday irked me to no end. He doesn't get his hands out in front, so the defender always has an easy spoil. He's not a KPF. He's a player in Goddard's mode. He could make a great goal kicking wingman. I think Roos concurs.

His intensity around the contest yesterday was second rate though. At the moment, he cannot apply basic defensive pressure. I'd back Roos to be able to draw that out of him.

If Roos becomes coach as expected. Watts will resign, Watts will not be considered for trade.

Watts is confused on when he should attack the ball and when he should stand on the edge of a pack as an outside player. He is our best user of the ball and has been told to be an outside players as this is who we want to see with the ball. Roos will fix this confusion up. Remember Green was soft in the first half of his career and turned into a mongrel.

I don't think Green as an example has any bearing here, but for a while now I've said this seems to often be Watts' problem.

He skirts around packs in an obvious way like he has been told "you are so sublimely skilled, we want you to be RECEIVING the handball to kick it forward, not going in for the hard footy getting tackled"

I'd have thought that is obviously only the case when it's a clear option to stay out and let your teammates get the footy for you, as in, when arriving late to a contest you're likely to win, but if needs it spelled out for him, so be it.

I can only be honest. I was very disappointed with his game yesterday. In particular his marking attempts. But half-hearted chasing efforts were also obvious.

You may think I'm a broken record, but it's the player in question who hasn't changed in the last 5 years and my observations remain the same accordingly.

If i was applauding his efforts you'd have no problem. Do you only want to hear nice comments ?

FWIW, there are definitely aspects he has to work on and I'd hope Roos can do that but generally I thought the delivery too him was limited after 1/4 time and a number of times the long kick to him was 2 on 1 or 3 on 1. He never had a chance. But as you say he is a sublime shot for goal.

Given his past 5 years, his trade value is limited, I would hope we could improve through a Roos and at least we get some upside out of him.

If Watts was in a good side he would kick six every week and be right up there with the Coleman leaders.

Remember Green was soft in the first half of his career and turned into a mongrel.

No he wasn't. Whilst Green wasn't my favourite Demon, he was never soft. His change was more in terms of style rather than mindset. I get a little irritated when I hear/read that he was soft.

Watts was very ordinary yesterday. Lovely kick but as others have pointed out, his overall game was without intensity and intent. For those that thought his game was good yesterday, ask yourself how a player with elite speed could never get separation on the lead? It's a reflection of his overall game.

No he wasn't. Whilst Green wasn't my favourite Demon, he was never soft. His change was more in terms of style rather than mindset. I get a little irritated when I hear/read that he was soft.

Watts was very ordinary yesterday. Lovely kick but as others have pointed out, his overall game was without intensity and intent. For those that thought his game was good yesterday, ask yourself how a player with elite speed could never get separation on the lead? It's a reflection of his overall game.

Four goals is a pathetic effort right?

Four goals is a pathetic effort right?

Watts has more talent in his left pinkie than any dogs defender.

I don't measure his output just on goals. He has other rolls which he failed to fulfil yesterday. I would hate to be running out of defence with watts as my only option.

Yes.

i thought it was one of his softer games. He didn't hit bodies when he should have, he didn't chase as hard as he should have and in general he tiptoed around the edges. There are times when you have to hit your opponents body first with your torso when flying for a mark. You do this to better position yourself and have them off balance. Watts avoids this and missed marks he should have taken accordingly.

He's a terribly soft footballer. But yes, he's a great set shot for goal.

Unfortunately true. Great skills, Soft approach to the contest. Can be improved though.

watt if....we do get pp1 thats Boyd

do we keep and move watts on..... i could be seriously tempted

I'll take a soft performance with a garnish of 4 goals, any day of the week.

Watts kicked 22 goals this season despite spending a lot of time in the back half and up the ground

Thats 1 more goal than he kicked in 2011 when he played the whole year forward

He has improved a lot since then and will just get better, and wail be a star under Roos

Yes he has some weaknesses that make you tear your hair out but for the 5 frustrating things he does each game he does 10 great things

Watts kicked 22 goals this season despite spending a lot of time in the back half and up the ground

Thats 1 more goal than he kicked in 2011 when he played the whole year forward

He has improved a lot since then and will just get better, and wail be a star under Roos

Yes he has some weaknesses that make you tear your hair out but for the 5 frustrating things he does each game he does 10 great things

He only got 7 touches yesterday FFS!!! How did he do 10 great things! At best Watts did 4 good things yesterday, he led up and made the most of shots for goal. The one great thing he did was leading very hard after he dropped a mark in the middle of the ground and then getting on the end of a piece of play. Besides that he did nothing of not at all.

He played on Mark Austin who is completely VFL and Dale Morris who just doesn't have the speed for him on the lead. I don't think he'd get a similar match up that works for him against any other side than the dogs.

I don't see how he's improved at all since 2011. Still doesn't tackle, still doesn't win contested ball, still doesn't fly for the ball in the air whilst putting his body on the line.

I have judged Jack very harshly as a player, kinda part of the deal when you go pick 1, but i think he would be a really good forward with some half decent delivery, he has been okay this year, two weeks ago i was all for trading him, now i'm not sure.

I think this is it really, I've changed my mind as Paul Roos suggested he's a keeper, & obviously wants the chance to sort him out. at the very least he'll make him a better footballer even if he does not become a key Posi player.

he may be a permanent winger, or he may just go, down the track.

No he wasn't. Whilst Green wasn't my favourite Demon, he was never soft. His change was more in terms of style rather than mindset. I get a little irritated when I hear/read that he was soft.

Watts was very ordinary yesterday. Lovely kick but as others have pointed out, his overall game was without intensity and intent. For those that thought his game was good yesterday, ask yourself how a player with elite speed could never get separation on the lead? It's a reflection of his overall game.

Green was soft. Shirked contests all the time, waited outside packs.

If Roos becomes coach as expected. Watts will resign, Watts will not be considered for trade.

Watts is confused on when he should attack the ball and when he should stand on the edge of a pack as an outside player. He is our best user of the ball and has been told to be an outside players as this is who we want to see with the ball. Roos will fix this confusion up. Remember Green was soft in the first half of his career and turned into a mongrel.

yeah it does look like that, like nonplussed lack of focus... but this can be caused by a myriad of reasons.

he has the intelligence, but does he have the footy IQ? the intuitiveness that 'Stevie J' operates from?