ANZAC football

[Ghost 0]

It bothers me when you hear Collingwood and Essendon supporters suggesting they've made Anzac day what it is. That they are the only two clubs that can do the day justice. Total BS.

[iw_s 0]

Anzac Day has sadly become an overhyped jingoistic marketing exercise. Buy a slab of VB and they'll donate a dollar to Legacy. At the 'G the World War II veterans are driven around the ground in white Toyota utes with the brand name emblazoned on the side. (Does anyone else see the unsettling irony of having people who were prisoners of the Japanese sitting in the back of a Toyota ute?) They play the soundtrack fron the movie The Man from Snowy River as the teams warm up - whatever that is meant to represent. 38,000 people are at the Shrine for the Dawn Service - when I used to attend the Dawn Service in the 1980s you would be lucky to see 800 people there. In Turkey they have to build a road to handle the tourist buses at Gallipoli. Channel Ten brings in ex-Wallaby and now journalist/author Peter FitzSimons to add special comments before today's game... what special comments could he possibly make? The Collingwood and Essendon players are given medals for playing today - what is that about given it's just one game out of eight during round 5?

There is about a third of Australia's population, who didn't have ancestors here during the First or Second World War, who are totally disenfranchised from what Anzac Day is about because don't have fathers and grandfathers and great-grandfathers who were at Gallipoli, Villers Bretonneaux, Tobruk or Kokoda. The ABC is running documentaries on Australians at war, and you can even see the Gallipoli battlefield in 3D and there are dozens of books all published at this time of year looking at new aspects of the war.

Whatever happened to Anzac Day being a solemn day to remember the horrors of war and commemorate those who lost their lives. When did it become Match of the Day and a chance to wrap yourself in the flag? What about the other Australians who have no connection to Anzac Day? Is this just a WASP-ish opportunity to celebrate "Australian values" and stuff anyone who doesn't belong?

[45HG 1,539]

Queen, thanks heaps for that article. Pretty much sums up, much more articulately, what we have been saying.

Nothing wrong with one game marking the importance of the day, but please none of this over glorification of war

[Hannabal 4]

Nothing wrong with one game marking the importance of the day, but please none of this over glorification of war

That is a ridiculous and ignorant comment. Anzac day doesn't "glorify war" at all - no matter how overhyped it may seem.

[45HG 1,539]

Yeah possibly over the top, but I'm not saying ANZAC day does, just the use of ANZAC day for alterior gains

[deanox 8,896]

I cannot stand the playing of the last post at all the games of this round. Completely unecessary. I can understand it at Coll v Ess, since that game is meant to be a tribute to the ANZACs. But the rest of them are just football matches.

And also, I'm what you would call 'youth', and I hate seeing anyone wearing the flag like a cape. Shows a complete lack of ignorance.

?????

[Dee Fan 3,247]

It has become a Carnival and ultimately the game may overshadow the occasion.

I wonder if the respect shown to the Diggers today will still be there tomorrow? How often do we see elderly men and women beaten, robbed and conned out of their life savings by the same ones who stand and applaud them at the football.

[titan_uranus 23,058]

?????

Haha, oopsies. I had to read that a couple of times to work out what was wrong with it too...

Edited.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I think that the game should be left to Collingwood and Essendon. They've created a tradition, they get the crowds and there is always interest in the game. I suppose that people think that Queens Birthday should be taken from Melbourne and Collingwood too?

[w00dy 146]

I think that the game should be left to Collingwood and Essendon. They've created a tradition, they get the crowds and there is always interest in the game. I suppose that people think that Queens Birthday should be taken from Melbourne and Collingwood too?

You've completely missed the point of this thread. It's not about who should play on ANZAC day. The fact that you're talking about football when this thread is about respecting the traditions of ANZAC day personifies the problem here perfectly.

[H_T 2,941]

It bothers me when you hear Collingwood and Essendon supporters suggesting they've made Anzac day what it is. That they are the only two clubs that can do the day justice. Total BS.

Well they would be completely naive to think that, even though it does contribute to Anzac Day. The increased awareness within education/school level and Anzac ceremonies held within schools recognising fallen heroes also contribute to what it is. Let's also not forget the pilgrimage to the shores of Gallipoli each year.

[QueenC 74]

Let's also not forget the pilgrimage to the shores of Gallipoli each year.

I did that during uni (my first degree was in history) and it was an unbelievable experience. One that should never be cheapened or mistreated.

The problem with some attitudes now is that this game is being treated as the creation of Anzac Day and not the other way around. I give credit to those that help raise awareness to the next generation, that is a great thing, but football should never outweigh the meaning of the day, and the meaning of the day doesn't necessarily translate into a football match no matter what clubs are involved.

Although it is sad that it seems that the Collingwood Football Club needs to be reminded that they didn't create Anzac Day, and to me that is thoroughly disrespectful.

Those involved should never lose sight of what today means. The football is a mark to the day, not the other way around.

[w00dy 146]

My flatmate came home with a souvenir publication from the ANZAC day match... reading through it makes me want to vomit... here are some highlights, or lowlights, whatever you prefer...

The Title:

Badge of Honour, Essendon V Collingwood - Commemorating the AFL's ANZAC Day Tradition

Forward from Andrew Demetriou:

The AFL is proud to honour the Anzacs with the annual Essendon-Collingwood clash, a game that has encapsulated the very best of their spirit.

To this end our broadcast partners have done an outstanding job in recognising the significance of this occasion. In recent times, Network 10 has devoted a two-hour pre-match program on the Anzac spirit.

What Anzac Day Means to Me:

Kevin Sheedy

It's an important day in Australia's history and I like to think it's only right that these young men represent the legends of the past who fought and died for their country.

but apart from all that, the biggest issue I have is the magazine itself... The football match is being blown up to be bigger than the actual day itself... And that't the thing that bothers me most...

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

You've completely missed the point of this thread. It's not about who should play on ANZAC day. The fact that you're talking about football when this thread is about respecting the traditions of ANZAC day personifies the problem here perfectly.

Wrong thread, my bad.

[45HG 1,539]

Well played.

I hate being skeptical on days like today, I suppose it's the responsibility of living in a free society

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

For a thoughtful and articulate thinker it's a shame that you're so unreasonable when it comes to the current Board and their achievements in difficult circumstances. But I don't want to divert the thread.

Don't want to divert the thread? Then don't.

At least you managed to avoid questioning my identity and correcting my spelling mistakes (e.g. "pruposes" (sic)) this time.

I'm happy to debate how reasonable or otherwise I have been in another thread (why don't you start one instead of hi-jacking every other thread in order to snipe at me?) although now that you have raised it, it's funny how you seem to think that I am only unreasonable about one topic - seems to me that you are the one with the "obsession". Pathetic.

Please do not reply to this post in this thread.

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

It's interesting that in a subsequent post you use the term "un-Australian".

How is that " Un Australian" a proud young person not shy to show his true colors.

IMO it depends how he goes about it.

Like I said, I think Un-Australian is a stupid term. It's a perfect example of a class "A" political weasel word.

As far as I can tell, it is intended to describe a lack of "Australian-ness", but Australian-ness is such a poorly defined concept that it is almost meaningless.

Australians are theives, life-savers, junkies, basketballers, lawyers, all sorts of things, so surely Australian-ness is all of these things also. But then people only ever seem to identify positives in their idea of the national character.

Of course, if we examine the way that it is used and who uses it, we see the particular brand of Australian-ness that is being reffered to with the term Un-Australian is an idealised jingoistic Australian-ness. This presents us with the irony that, as jingoism isn't particually Australian (historically at least) - the term Un-Australian is somewhat Un-Australian (maybe another reason that I don't like to use it).

Wrapping yourself in a flag and marching around in a cheap display of ostentatious patriotism is certainly not a very Australian thing to do (at least until recently), so this kind of jingoistic behaviour can be called Un-Australian also - and the aformentioned irony makes this insult all the more effective because the flag-wearers are precisely the kind of nationalistic right-wing nut jobs who like to define Australin-ness so exclusively and who put the greatest stock in terms like "un-Australian" which they aren't used to being on the recieving end of.

Dreamin' man put it quite succinctly earlier in the thread when he wrote that:

Used to be that Australians were an understated mob. We could be proud of our country without all the hand-on-heart earnestness. That was the American way & we've followed. Like Australia Day, Anzac Day has been hijacked by bogans wrapped in flags. Reckon most old guys who did the brave things wouldn't hold with that, either.

[Hannabal 4]

I'm happy to debate how reasonable or otherwise I have been in another thread (why don't you start one instead of hi-jacking every other thread in order to snipe at me?) although now that you have raised it, it's funny how you seem to think that I am only unreasonable about one topic - seems to me that you are the one with the "obsession". Pathetic.

Please do not reply to this post in this thread.

I'll please myself when I reply.

"Pathetic" is you and your mate going to ground with predictable timing.

[heartbeatstrue 57]

Can anyone remember, I have recollections of going to a Melb/Essendon game at the 'G on Anzac Day. In other words, it used to be our blockbuster & the filth stole it from us (unless i'm dreaming).

[dreamin' man 0]

Can anyone remember, I have recollections of going to a Melb/Essendon game at the 'G on Anzac Day. In other words, it used to be our blockbuster & the filth stole it from us (unless i'm dreaming).

Anzac Day 92 was a Saturday. We were doing it easily at three-quarter time, 37pts up, I think. Got the first goal of the last quarter (Tingay?) before Essendon ran over us. Think Derek Kickett in defence killed us.

Also remember an Anzac Day game v. Collingwood at Waverley in the late 80s when Darren Cuthbertson took a screamer.

[timD 994]

Hazy - a good thread and I completely agree that ANZAC day is being trasnformed into a media guilt/war/death/hero marketting exercise that has stuff all to do with the day, the people or a 'legacy'. What I hate more than anything is that the ANZACs are mythologised into super-aussies. For me, the most sobering thing is that they were not and did what they did, died how they died, fought how they fought. The media will obscure the 'truth' of this for their own ends (viewers and ad money). ANd we buy it. To me it is a way of debasing the past. It is kind of gross really.

On a good note, I've just loved (in a sober, humble sort of way) the Les Carloyn books on gallipoli and the western front ('The Great War'). i think they are a great read, but can be very, very hard going.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

What I hate more than anything is that the ANZACs are mythologised into super-aussies. For me, the most sobering thing is that they were not and did what they did, died how they died, fought how they fought. The media will obscure the 'truth' of this for their own ends (viewers and ad money). ANd we buy it. To me it is a way of debasing the past. It is kind of gross really.

On a good note, I've just loved (in a sober, humble sort of way) the Les Carloyn books on gallipoli and the western front ('The Great War'). i think they are a great read, but can be very, very hard going.

Agree on both the myhthology of Anzac Day and Carlyon's books are informative and respectful accounts of WW1

[H_T 2,941]

On a good note, I've just loved (in a sober, humble sort of way) the Les Carloyn books on gallipoli and the western front ('The Great War'). i think they are a great read, but can be very, very hard going.

Agree on both the myhthology of Anzac Day and Carlyon's books are informative and respectful accounts of WW1

Any of you guys see Fitzsimmons on the Channel 10 coverage on Anzac Day in the lead up to the game. He's written a new book thats being released, which seems interesting based on accounts of WWI/Gallopoli with the Anzacs. It seems a good read. Anyone read it yet?

[Hazyshadeofgrinter 80]

I'll please myself when I reply.

"Pathetic" is you and your mate going to ground with predictable timing.

I have reported your post for irrelevance as I do not wish to encourage your trolling any further with a direct response.

[Hannabal 4]

I have reported your post for irrelevance as I do not wish to encourage your trolling any further with a direct response.

**trembles**