Freak said:

okay answer me this. how many of those kicks went over 35metres? How many of those kicks did he do while under any token pressure? How many of those kicks went inside the corridor, how many of those kicks hit a target inside 50m and how many of those kicks were low, spearing, finger breaking, high risk passes that the elite so often pull off? Disposal efficiency is the most misleading stat in the game. For the kicks that Morton was attempting, uncontested, short floaters..he shouldn't be missing ANY kicks. NOT 1!

I don't know why you single out Morton so much. Pretty much everyone in our team is a shocking kick.

  Freak said:

okay answer me this. how many of those kicks went over 35metres? How many of those kicks did he do while under any token pressure? How many of those kicks went inside the corridor, how many of those kicks hit a target inside 50m and how many of those kicks were low, spearing, finger breaking, high risk passes that the elite so often pull off? Disposal efficiency is the most misleading stat in the game. For the kicks that Morton was attempting, uncontested, short floaters..he shouldn't be missing ANY kicks. NOT 1!

So we are back to your obsession with what makes an elite kick. You didn't get it two weeks ago so whats changed now? Let me keep it simple. Get ball. Kick ball. Hit target. Do that 8 times out of 10 or better and then you are in the top 15% of players. Those kicks are usually across a variety of distances, angles and levels of pressure yet over a game that usually levels out. If you have other areas of the game you dont understand happy to help you out.

One thing I think we can ALL agree on is the need to make our forward line as potent as possible. I think that's why we need Maric, Sylvia and possibly Martin down there against the filth. Maric and Sylvia can provide a target and we all know that Maric can sniff a goal, so we need to get them in there. Jetta deserves another week and Stef Martin would be handier down forward than Paul Johnson ever will be. Get those guys in there and we will kick more goals, simple as that.

  Freak said:

okay answer me this. how many of those kicks went over 35metres? How many of those kicks did he do while under any token pressure? How many of those kicks went inside the corridor, how many of those kicks hit a target inside 50m and how many of those kicks were low, spearing, finger breaking, high risk passes that the elite so often pull off? Disposal efficiency is the most misleading stat in the game. For the kicks that Morton was attempting, uncontested, short floaters..he shouldn't be missing ANY kicks. NOT 1!

On this I agree 'Freak', but I suspect the team is trying to use the shorter option ATM, as a way of trying to keep possession to build some confidance in their teamwork. I assume if thats true that once up & going they would then lengthen their passes.

  big_red_fire_engine said:

So we are back to your obsession with what makes an elite kick. You didn't get it two weeks ago so whats changed now? Let me keep it simple. Get ball. Kick ball. Hit target. Do that 8 times out of 10 or better and then you are in the top 15% of players. Those kicks are usually across a variety of distances, angles and levels of pressure yet over a game that usually levels out. If you have other areas of the game you dont understand happy to help you out.

Nah, that's way too complicated for him BRFE.

  Wiseblood said:

One thing I think we can ALL agree on is the need to make our forward line as potent as possible. I think that's why we need Maric, Sylvia and possibly Martin down there against the filth. Maric and Sylvia can provide a target and we all know that Maric can sniff a goal, so we need to get them in there. Jetta deserves another week and Stef Martin would be handier down forward than Paul Johnson ever will be. Get those guys in there and we will kick more goals, simple as that.

Maric had 3 quarters only at Casey this week. He is not fit enough. He should definitely come in when fit though.

Why is it that everyone thinks Martin is going to be an instant forward?

He is new to the game and his strengths are his athletic qualities rather than his skills and instinct.

He looks to me like a backman not a foward.

I know our forward line is bad and Im not saying we should not give him a go there at some stage but I think he is far from the instant answer and I would like to see him kick a few for Casey before he gets a gig there for the Demons in that role.

  Rhino Richards said:

Maric had 3 quarters only at Casey this week. He is not fit enough. He should definitely come in when fit though.

Yea at least two weeks you'd think, hopefully a full game maybe two then if form warrents (cough cough) he will get in.

  s-t-i-n-g-a said:

Why is it that everyone thinks Martin is going to be an instant forward?

He is new to the game and his strengths are his athletic qualities rather than his skills and instinct.

He looks to me like a backman not a foward.

I know our forward line is bad and Im not saying we should not give him a go there at some stage but I think he is far from the instant answer and I would like to see him kick a few for Casey before he gets a gig there for the Demons in that role.

Why? Cause people are clutching at any kind of hope someone will be able to play a role as a forward for us who is elite.... I think we are few years off having one of those players, if he can develop into the player he could potentially be. No one else on our list is even close to being elite tall forward for us.

I think the coaches would like to see him do something, anything at Casey and they will put him in....

It is just a frustrating situation for us to be in as we are still so far away from being a threat of finals let alone looking at getting close to a flag and the "older" players we still have on the list will not get us there unfortunately. Even though we go every week hoping for something to "click" and win games.

  Jaded said:

We've still got it

High Tower, my comment was clearly intended as a joke, although it shocks me that people thought Frawley wasn't good. That they want him dropped is even more astonishing. But as you said, we're all entitled to our opinion.

Its not that I think he doesn't deserve another game, it was just what I believe may happen.

Personally i think Frawley played a really good couple of qrts, but like the rest of the team, faded towards the end.

It was if Wheels and or Stef are fit, then I think Frawley may go.

and thats my opinion.

  big_red_fire_engine said:

One example out of one game is a pretty long straw to draw Freak.

Morton's first half yesterday was poor as he did not get involved in the play. His kicking aside from the one example you choose to use was elite. If we are backing up our statements with one off examples his goal off balance off one step from 45m yesterday as much negates your point but happ to back it up with stats.

Morton's disposal efficiency was 80%. There were 16 Melbourne players with worse efficiency ratings. He had the highest kick to handball ratio of any of the players above him. To me that means on paper he was our best kick yesterday. Oh thats right he must be a poor disposer because he missed ONE kick (albeit a shocker) but dont let facts get in the way of supporting your argument.

All correct there BFRE. The only thing that worries me about Morton is his weight: he doesn't look like he's put on any muscle at all. He has to get stronger, he won't make a successful career if he doesn't. But at the moment he's certainly not our biggest concern.

  Clint Bizkit said:

Worst on ground easily for me, then Miller.

you have NO idea buddy

  Cards13 said:

Yea at least two weeks you'd think, hopefully a full game maybe two then if form warrents (cough cough) he will get in.

Why? Cause people are clutching at any kind of hope someone will be able to play a role as a forward for us who is elite.... I think we are few years off having one of those players, if he can develop into the player he could potentially be. No one else on our list is even close to being elite tall forward for us.

I think the coaches would like to see him do something, anything at Casey and they will put him in....

It is just a frustrating situation for us to be in as we are still so far away from being a threat of finals let alone looking at getting close to a flag and the "older" players we still have on the list will not get us there unfortunately. Even though we go every week hoping for something to "click" and win games.

I shouldn't need to point out the problem with that bolded sentence.

Miller and Bate are playing CHF (hardest position on the ground) and FF (second hardest) in the worst team in the comp.

Why don't those who are so abhorred by their performance go down to training this week and let their feelings known and give their advice directly to Bailey and co.

Rivers? Martin?

They'd be right to laugh at you.

We have nothing but time to give these guys, until Jurrah and Watts are ready to go. Why not give them a chance to prove a few wrong?

  rpfc said:

I shouldn't need to point out the problem with that bolded sentence.

Miller and Bate are playing CHF (hardest position on the ground) and FF (second hardest) in the worst team in the comp.

Why don't those who are so abhorred by their performance go down to training this week and let their feelings known and give their advice directly to Bailey and co.

Rivers? Martin?

They'd be right to laugh at you.

We have nothing but time to give these guys, until Jurrah and Watts are ready to go. Why not give them a chance to prove a few wrong?

I don't think you did....

What have Rivo and Martin got to do with elite tall forwards on our list?

I never suggested dropping or getting rid of anyone, they are what the coaches have to work with. We have nothing but hope that Watts and Jurrah (??) will be elite for us too, currently we have no elite forwards. How can we say otherwise unless totally deluded by the current group of players we have.

  Cards13 said:

I don't think you did....

What have Rivo and Martin got to do with elite tall forwards on our list?

I never suggested dropping or getting rid of anyone, they are what the coaches have to work with. We have nothing but hope that Watts and Jurrah (??) will be elite for us too, currently we have no elite forwards. How can we say otherwise unless totally deluded by the current group of players we have.

I don't know why everyone goes on about needing elite forwards. Any team that moves the ball quickly in a systematic fashion, with equal representation of forwards to the oppositions' defenders, will kick goals. Unfortunately, we don't apply this theory.

So who are the elite forwards at the Bulldogs?

  s-t-i-n-g-a said:

Why is it that everyone thinks Martin is going to be an instant forward?

Desperation ?!!!

Thankfully there won't be a knee jerk reaction to the loss, there'll probably keep it fairly simple actually.

In: Sylvia

Out: Bennell

For me WOG was probably PJ, but i don't think Bailey played him well. Should of parked him as a lead up for for the second half IMO.

  Rhino Richards said:

Nah, that's way too complicated for him BRFE.

once again, no opinion of ur own rhino. typical fence-sitter

  s-t-i-n-g-a said:

Why is it that everyone thinks Martin is going to be an instant forward?

He is new to the game and his strengths are his athletic qualities rather than his skills and instinct.

He looks to me like a backman not a foward.

I know our forward line is bad and Im not saying we should not give him a go there at some stage but I think he is far from the instant answer and I would like to see him kick a few for Casey before he gets a gig there for the Demons in that role.

I can't believe a lot of this nonsense!

All this talk of various [small] players who should be dropped. Or even Miller who battled his innards out. Let's drop Spencer-aged 19 he took on the best rucks around and wasn't disgraced.

What bull----!.

The bringing into this team of players like Sylvia or Maric wouldn't make one bit of difference. And I can't understand, if any of you went to thr match, that you didn't see it.

Simply, the STRUCTURE of the side was deficient. No individual player was to blame.

Bate is not, and never will be, a F.F.Those who say he's nearly Newton's size miss the point--he doesn't play like Newton. When did you see Bate take a big mark and kick a goal? That's not his go.And talk of Martin is stupid--I'm a great fan of Martin and believe he should be played, but when was he goal-kicking forward?

Without a Newton [and he's the best we've got at present] the tactic which Gary Lyon talks of constantly--notably kicking the ball to the top of the square-- is not available. And you could see it yesterday---many times it was kicked sideways since there was no-one tall in the goalsquare.

And this is now even more important! A kick to the goalsquare previously ran the overwhelmong risk of being knocked through for a point. Not now! It has to be kept in play. This should be a mecca for crumbers around the square, of which we have several. But they can't act as the high marking forwards, like Petterd tried to do, because they're not big enough.Someone big has to either mark[improbable] or bring the ball to the ground and a contest.

Frankly I'm worried. This is a coach who, last year, decided it was a`good tactic to play Buckley on Scarlett! Good one Dean--we lost by 20 goals.[i'm not blaming Buckley]

And whoever it was who raised the question as to one other matter deserves a medal--why-for Pete's sake--take off a man who's just kicked a goal? On one of his successful forays forward, which lasted 4 minutes, a scrimmage near the square did occur, and Green grabbed it and kicked a goal. Then he sat on the pine for 5. A woman behind me said that the best reason for kicking a goal for Melbourne was that if you did,you got to have a nice rest with a cup of tea.

What on earth is going on?

  Rhino Richards said:

Maric had 3 quarters only at Casey this week. He is not fit enough. He should definitely come in when fit though.

rhino save it ppl wont listen i have seen last few casey games and getting sick of trying to give some sort of report on our players there, trust me maric wont play nor will wona and yes nor should sylvis on a half game if we do we are desperate and watch the knives come out on these players if ther do play

as for those who bag martin as an option up forward pull your heads out of the sand this guy is just starting out and will surprise lots with his size and speed maybe not now but wait and see

posters commenting on what they heard in chinese whispers re scorp players is annoying trust me not much use in dropping bennell and jetta there as who is fit to come in ???????? get down there first then give a comment

  stueyspencer no12 said:

I can't believe a lot of this nonsense!

All this talk of various [small] players who should be dropped. Or even Miller who battled his innards out. Let's drop Spencer-aged 19 he took on the best rucks around and wasn't disgraced.

What bull----!.

The bringing into this team of players like Sylvia or Maric wouldn't make one bit of difference. And I can't understand, if any of you went to thr match, that you didn't see it.

Simply, the STRUCTURE of the side was deficient. No individual player was to blame.

Bate is not, and never will be, a F.F.Those who say he's nearly Newton's size miss the point--he doesn't play like Newton. When did you see Bate take a big mark and kick a goal? That's not his go.And talk of Martin is stupid--I'm a great fan of Martin and believe he should be played, but when was he goal-kicking forward?

Without a Newton [and he's the best we've got at present] the tactic which Gary Lyon talks of constantly--notably kicking the ball to the top of the square-- is not available. And you could see it yesterday---many times it was kicked sideways since there was no-one tall in the goalsquare.

And this is now even more important! A kick to the goalsquare previously ran the overwhelmong risk of being knocked through for a point. Not now! It has to be kept in play. This should be a mecca for crumbers around the square, of which we have several. But they can't act as the high marking forwards, like Petterd tried to do, because they're not big enough.Someone big has to either mark[improbable] or bring the ball to the ground and a contest.

Frankly I'm worried. This is a coach who, last year, decided it was a`good tactic to play Buckley on Scarlett! Good one Dean--we lost by 20 goals.[i'm not blaming Buckley]

And whoever it was who raised the question as to one other matter deserves a medal--why-for Pete's sake--take off a man who's just kicked a goal? On one of his successful forays forward, which lasted 4 minutes, a scrimmage near the square did occur, and Green grabbed it and kicked a goal. Then he sat on the pine for 5. A woman behind me said that the best reason for kicking a goal for Melbourne was that if you did,you got to have a nice rest with a cup of tea.

What on earth is going on?

Yeah, no individual is to blame. It was Bailey's fault...

1.Bate has played one game at FF. One effing game!

2.Delivery to the forwards was where we let ourselves down, maybe the are too precise and should attack the square.

3.Buckley on Scarlett? Struggling to recall that one, also struggling to recall how that match-up would inspire a 20 goal loss. Scarlett kick 9 that day?

But it's good you didn't blame Buckley. We don't want to single anyone out for blame...

It was Bailey's fault...

  big_red_fire_engine said:

So we are back to your obsession with what makes an elite kick. You didn't get it two weeks ago so whats changed now? Let me keep it simple. Get ball. Kick ball. Hit target. Do that 8 times out of 10 or better and then you are in the top 15% of players. Those kicks are usually across a variety of distances, angles and levels of pressure yet over a game that usually levels out. If you have other areas of the game you dont understand happy to help you out.

so jake spencer is a better disposer of the footy than green according to your theory. he got a efficiency of 75% compared to greens 67%..spencer is also a better kick than mclean who had a 74% disposal efficiency. just proved your theory wrong and how efficiency ratings are ambigious. don't argue with the master, you'll just get found out

  Freak said:

once again, no opinion of ur own rhino. typical fence-sitter

Thought it was too complicated for you. Keep mincing the facts. BRFE has pantsed you, YM has made a fool of you and you cant even see it.

Keep swinging slugger.

  Freak said:

so jake spencer is a better disposer of the footy than green according to your theory. he got a efficiency of 75% compared to greens 67%..spencer is also a better kick than mclean who had a 74% disposal efficiency. just proved your theory wrong and how efficiency ratings are ambigious. don't argue with the master, you'll just get found out

You comparison is laughable. Spencer had 3 kicks and a total of 8 disposals. Did you not take note that kick to handball ratio was important? I assumed I did not need to mention that volume of disposals would also impact. But I guess since Spencer had less than half the disposals of the two players you mentioned and a kick to handball ratio 20% less than Green or Mclean doesn't discount your argument. Maybe your Auskick coach could explain it to you on the weekend....

  mo64 said:

I don't know why everyone goes on about needing elite forwards. Any team that moves the ball quickly in a systematic fashion, with equal representation of forwards to the oppositions' defenders, will kick goals. Unfortunately, we don't apply this theory.

So who are the elite forwards at the Bulldogs?

None, how many flags they won recently? How many forwards have they traded for over the last 5 years looking for a solution to what they percieved to be a problem?

Well no Wona for another month so my changes would be the same minus Wona.