You would hope so with McLean. Its not that he has gotten slow, he always has been. The game has got quicker and opposition sides are exploiting his lack of pace.

The fact Sylvia gets lost out there mitigates the "talent" people talk of.

The game hasn't gotten twice as quick in one season Rhino!

Plus McLean can still read the play better than most and find a lot of space, even though he is primarily an inside midfielder. He is getting better each game, but obviously the wide spaces of Subiaco just don't agree with him, because he looked spent after the game.

By the way, talent (i.e.- ability to mark and kick) is not impacted by an ability to get involved. Some players are low possession getters by nature, but are highly skilled. Sylvia knows what to do with the ball once he gets it, or once it is kicked to him, the problem is, he doesn't know how to get it or demand it.

In his junior years, he was the star and the game plan revolved around him. He didn't need to work hard to win the ball. AFL doesn't work like that, especially when you're trying to become a midfielder. Sylvia obviously hasn't been able to adjust to not being the centre of the universe, and that is a real shame.

Sylvia has shown a hell of a lot in the last month. He's an extremely important player for us and had another good game today.

Not even close.

McLean was good in the trenches and worked extremely hard to get into space. His disposal was hit and miss, but at least he got the ball. Sylvia had 4 touches at half time.

There is no comparison between the two. One has plenty of runs on the board, the other takes a couple of good marks a game and then falls asleep.

Jaded open your other eye.Your ability to attack certain players and defend others blindly at every opportunity is comical. Sylvia was poor first half and contributed in the second. Mclean had negligible impact on all 4 quarters of the game and his runs on the board are fast becoming distant memories.

The game hasn't gotten twice as quick in one season Rhino!

Plus McLean can still read the play better than most and find a lot of space, even though he is primarily an inside midfielder. He is getting better each game, but obviously the wide spaces of Subiaco just don't agree with him, because he looked spent after the game.

Correct. The game has got much quicker over the past four or five years particularly the last three. McLean is slow and is struggling to have coinsistent impact on the game. The wides spaces of Subi dont suit him as much as the confines of the SCG dont.

For MFCs sake and yours I do hope McLean is injured because he is really struggling to run out a game and even more so have an impact.

By the way, talent (i.e.- ability to mark and kick) is not impacted by an ability to get involved.

Sorry but it is. John Tilbrook was one of the most "talented" footballers in Australia when MFC recruited him. The next big thing... One problem...he never got involved in the game. There have been a number of others since the 1970's like that. Its often called a "core weakness"

Some players are low possession getters by nature, but are highly skilled. Sylvia knows what to do with the ball ,once he gets it, or once it is kicked to him, the problem is, he doesn't know how to get it or demand it.

When you play midfield, and between half back and half forward, low possessions spell disaster. And you explanation that he does not know how to get it is laughable. You really cant be serious putting that forward. Its the crux of his problems (there are a couple of others) and he is dead meat in the AFL if he cant do this. FFS its six years in the system. I coach and U9 team and three quarters of the side know how to lead for a football.

In his junior years, he was the star and the game plan revolved around him. He didn't need to work hard to win the ball. AFL doesn't work like that, especially when you're trying to become a midfielder. Sylvia obviously hasn't been able to adjust to not being the centre of the universe, and that is a real shame.

Diddums.

You really should rethink some of your arguments Jaded. Thats tripe. BRFE is right.

When you play midfield, and between half back and half forward, low possessions spell disaster. And you explanation that he does not know how to get it is laughable. You really cant be serious putting that forward. Its the crux of his problems (there are a couple of others) and he is dead meat in the AFL if he cant do this. FFS its six years in the system. I coach and U9 team and three quarters of the side know how to lead for a football.

You coach U9s? Those poor kids!

Edited May 10, 200916 yr by Rogue
Just quote the relevant passages

Sylvia's form has been patchy, but I've reconciled the past and have little interest in the ongoing saga of his stumbling career. He's just a FP, if he's around when we are decent and getting a game, well done to him. But he won't be a major reason for our future success.

McLean was poor, but the previous three weeks were good. Shadowed all season by Moloney and, today, by Jones.

You coach U9s? Those poor kids!

They do seem a tad more worldly and mature than you Geddy. Does your Mum know your on the PC again?

BTW, we are undefeated after six rounds and on top of the ladder. :D

Come down some time. Can you cut oranges?

I honestly thought he was poor today, again.

Especially his first half. It was good to see that he ran the game out and tried to get involved though, but not enough IMO and keeps making the same mistakes when he does get it (i.e. Jones circa 2008 attempts to break numerous tackles before being pinged).

Needs to take less than 45 seconds to have a shot at goal in the dying stages as well.

I for one will admit I see Chooka with rose tinted glasses

I thought he was Ok today, some bad kicks some good, I would not say he was poor today but it was not one fo his best either.

Sylvia took some great contested marks, did some good things with the ball,

on the other hand he did some shockers too, i.e dropping that handball in the last quarter when we had a run on

He (Sylvia) will always give su a mixed bag from minute to minute

You really should rethink some of your arguments Jaded. Thats tripe. BRFE is right.

I'm a bit worried that you misread my comments to the point of thinking I was actually defending him. I'm not.

I think it's a well known fact that Sylvia struggles to get involved, but when he does get the ball, he can use it. If he didn't have the talent, do you think he'd still be on our list, given his history with off field issues and injuries?

And BRFE might enjoy having a crack, but I doubt he disagrees too much with my views on Sylvia, Newton or Bate.

They do seem a tad more worldly and mature than you Geddy. Does your Mum know your on the PC again?

I'm a kid. Nice one. B)

I won't cut your oranges for you but I will throw them at your head.

Sylvia 6/10

First half was shocking.

But I think there would be a very good reason the club has kept him after the off field events and slow progress.

Lets hope

You coach U9s? Those poor kids!

Haha

I think it's a well known fact that Sylvia struggles to get involved, but when he does get the ball, he can use it.

Unfortunately I don't think he does actually use it that well.

Occassionally he looks elite but far too often he makes poor decisions or misses targets.

When it comes to contested situations I think his handballing is pretty poor.

Sylvia had far more influence than McLean. Your posts regarding Sylvia have become tiresome.

But true...

Both are below the amount of output needed. Jones is playing all over McLean and is not too far off over-taking him as out chief in-and-under. Don't get me wrong, I love McLean, and I reckon there's more going on here than we're being told... I'm sure there'll be some article at the end of the year saying how he has played the entire season with a prosthetic foot or something... but the point remains he's not playing anywhere near like he did a couple fo years ago. Say, before his ankle injury. He used to be the guy that would shoot to 14 touches in the first quarter, he's not anywhere near that now.

I'm not advocating a run in the twos either. We need his power in there as much as ever. I just reckon he's not right yet. Not even close.

I'm a kid. Nice one. B)

I won't cut your oranges for you but I will throw them at your head.

When I said that U9s were a tad worldly and mature I did the U9s a huge disservice by using the word tad.

BTW, if you are true to form you would miss any target by a mile.

If he didn't have the talent, do you think he'd still be on our list, given his history with off field issues and injuries?

And BRFE might enjoy having a crack, but I doubt he disagrees too much with my views on Sylvia, Newton or Bate.

Too often posters refer to Sylvia's "talent" and then make it conditional on some core problem in his game. I dont know why you and others do that. IMO talent is what you deliver.

BRFE's post # 306 would contradict your view on Sylvia. Nothing controversial could be said about Newton and Bate. Its obvious where they are at.

But true...

Both are below the amount of output needed.

now here is an elephant in the room.

Unless both pick up their games ...for whatever reasons then oth are becoming less and less relevent to any likely shape of a team that will press for serious activity come a september

Both CAN be good.. seldom are either really what everyone cracks either up to be. The difference in that McLean does consistently try harder but neither are influential. We cant afford non influential players..doesnt matter who they are

There was one interesting stat from yesterdays game against West Coast, Sylvia had four contested marks. An interesting stat in terms of todays uncontested footy.

IMO there were bigger issues on Subiaco than the much maligned Sylvia. Did anyone see the last quarter by the way? When fatigue would normally set in, Sylvia stood up head and shoulders above his teammates.

I thought Pick No 5 was worse than Pick No 3 today.

Agree.

Sylvia had far more influence than McLean.

Agree.

You would hope so with McLean. Its not that he has gotten slow, he always has been. The game has got quicker and opposition sides are exploiting his lack of pace.

The fact Sylvia gets lost out there mitigates the "talent" people talk of.

See the last quarter.

PS. Forget the missed shot from 55m.

Sylvia has shown a hell of a lot in the last month. He's an extremely important player for us and had another good game today.

TBH his contested marks were very important, his second efforts were great in the last quarter, he showed grit and determination when his side needed it. His kicks to target (all but one which fell short) were nothing but sublime and perfect. Right and left foot.

Steve Johnson looked crap in a poor Geelong side and look at him now. Sylvia is nowhere near the player SJ is, right now or in the future, but if we're going to persevere with eternal chumps like Bate, Dunn and [injunction on these players] then I am happy to persevere with Colon Slivier and would like to see him in a better more mature MFC unit.

I still really don't know where he is supposed to be played, he sucks as a HFF, his best work seems to come on the Half back in the corridor.

They do seem a tad more worldly and mature than you Geddy. Does your Mum know your on the PC again?

BTW, we are undefeated after six rounds and on top of the ladder. :D

Come down some time. Can you cut oranges?

What kind of league keeps score for U9s

I also think it's worth noting that he was on shannon hurn yesterday. (i think might be wrong) for the first half. I think he really restricted his influence on the game. Hurn has an amazing kick and really gives west coast great drive from defense..

ALso his marks were brilliant yesterday. Let's not forget three times he was loose at half forward and mclean just couldn't hit him up. the only reason he got another shot at it was he was good enough to keep the ball in front of himself and dish off a handball.

I know it wasn't a great game for col but needs to be played hff rotating on the ball. Once we get some more skilled players in the side look out.

Also on that miss in the last, i think he was the only one in the side i would have backed to kick it. Robbo had 2 shots from the same spot and were terrible kicks. PJ is the only other one!

His best footy at the moment is in the midfield. I think he struggles up forward but when he goes onto the wing or in the middle thats when he has played well. His is getting fitter and hopefully he can spend more time playing on the ball. Maybe we have all just assumed he was meant to be dominate forward, because that is where we played him. Maybe we had to play him forward because of his OP and or lack of other forward options and now he is playing where he plays his best footy in the midfield.

What kind of league keeps score for U9s

What kind of league keeps score for U9s

All of them.

Seriously you should get out more and understand junior football.