Toigs trying a shifty

[Spirit of the Demon 256]

Heard on 3AW that Richmond is making a special application to have Graham Polak taken off the senior list and made a rookie to give them an extra PSD pick. Could then take Cousins.

Not sure if they would have to give up first pick in the rookie draft but it all seems a bit too late for me.

[Diablo 1]

Will be denied I would have thought, though the political implications and outrage from the Cousins sympathisers (ie. 75% of the football public) may be a factor.

Why do they need two picks? Who the hell are they so set on with the first one that they can't just pick him up with that?

[e25 5]

Heard on 3AW that Richmond is making a special application to have Graham Polak taken off the senior list and made a rookie to give them an extra PSD pick. Could then take Cousins.

I wouldn't be opposed to that.

If you think Cousins deserves a 2nd chance in spite of his question marks (& i do) then you have to be in favour of it for Polak.

It's very similar to the Ramanaskaus situation a little while back.

[45HG 1,559]

I wouldn't label it a "shifty," nothing wrong with a workplace looking after their employees

[Whispering_Jack 30,573]

I wouldn't label it a "shifty," nothing wrong with a workplace looking after their employees

Agreed there's nothing wrong with that but this seems to be somewhat opportunistic on the part of Richmond.

Why are they raising it now when the time under AFL rules for making room on every team's list has passed? They've known about Polak's situation for ages and besides, there's a long term injury list already available for such cases.

Also, if they want Cousins they can draft him with their existing PSD pick. This proposal would give them the opportunity to draft a young untried player as well as someone like Cousins or Nathan Carroll or to redraft Gourdis giving them an extra advantage.

To me it's a bit like the situation when we got special permission to draft a player (it ended up being Shannon Motlop) after Troy Broadbridge died. Of course, Polak is alive (thankfully) but in that situation we were limited because the PSD and rookie draft had already taken place. The decision to allow us an extra player didn't provide us with the advantage of drafting a young player onto our list as well, which is what will happen here.

I can't see this happening because Demetriou doesn't like handing out extra advantages to clubs. He wouldn't give Melbourne a compensatory pick at PSD time a few years ago when the Dockers were found to be over the salary cap when they took Jeff Farmer although a precedent had been set earlier over Jeff White.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I think it's OK what there trying to do.

We got special consideration when Troy Broadbridge passed away, so under these special out of the ordinary circumstances I have no problem with them asking for help.

[H_T 3,049]

Agreed there's nothing wrong with that but this seems to be somewhat opportunistic on the part of Richmond.

Why are they raising it now when the time under AFL rules for making room on every team's list has passed? They've known about Polak's situation for ages and besides, there's a long term injury list already available for such cases.

Also, if they want Cousins they can draft him with their existing PSD pick. This proposal would give them the opportunity to draft a young untried player as well as someone like Cousins or Nathan Carroll or to redraft Gourdis giving them an extra advantage.

To me it's a bit like the situation when we got special permission to draft a player (it ended up being Shannon Motlop) after Troy Broadbridge died. Of course, Polak is alive (thankfully) but in that situation we were limited because the PSD and rookie draft had already taken place. The decision to allow us an extra player didn't provide us with the advantage of drafting a young player onto our list as well, which is what will happen here.

I can't see this happening because Demetriou doesn't like handing out extra advantages to clubs. He wouldn't give Melbourne a compensatory pick at PSD time a few years ago when the Dockers were found to be over the salary cap when they took Jeff Farmer although a precedent had been set earlier over Jeff White.

I heard Eddie on the news bulletin, he raised virtually the same points you raise here WJ. You can understand other clubs concerns on Richmond's move in this case.

If he however ends up at Richmond via the PSD, all of the sudden the midfield reads Deledio, Cousins, Cotchin. Not bad.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,933]

I'm dead against this.

As Eddie McChins mentioned, Richmond may steal the 1st pick we want in the rookie draft, with their extra PSD pick.

They should only be given the one pick in the PSD.

[Blistering 541]

I'm dead against this.

As Eddie McChins mentioned, Richmond may steal the 1st pick we want in the rookie draft, with their extra PSD pick.

They should only be given the one pick in the PSD.

Call me a cynic but today's HUN has a picture on the back page of Polak at training and doing ruck work. He looks pretty advanced in his recovery to me.

What is it that makes his case different to any other player with a debilitating long term injury? If he's not right to go at the start of 2009 then why can't he just go on the long term injury list and Richmond promote a rookie as the rules already provide?

To make a special rule at this stage would set a precedent. Clubs could claim extra picks simply because they had players with long term injuries. Robbo was injured in mid season and all reports suggest that he'd be struggling to get himself right by the start of the season. What would stop us from applying for some special consideration to get an extra pick in the PSD too?

To me, this is a case of draft tampering if it's allowed at this late stage of proceedings.

[old55 23,687]

Agree, I'm completely against this - it make no sense at all, there's already a rule in place to deal with this situation - they can put Polak on the long term injury list and promote a rookie.

[Nasher 33,617]

Agree, I'm completely against this - it make no sense at all, there's already a rule in place to deal with this situation - they can put Polak on the long term injury list and promote a rookie.

Agree. If Richmond want to do this, they should have to delist Polak and pay out his salary first, then apply for permission to rookie him.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Agree. If Richmond want to do this, they should have to delist Polak and pay out his salary first, then apply for permission to rookie him.

What he said.

[Redleg 41,399]

Richmond are using two sympathy cards to get an advantage that they are not entitled to. They are saying we must look after Polak and Cousins.

As others have said on here it is not about looking after Polak at all as he is on the list and will be paid, it is about looking after the Tigers. Polak could be placed on the long term injury list and that satisfies their position.

What is at the heart of this is that the Tigers presumably want to take Cousins in the PSD as well as the player they have targeted for their existing pick. If they were genuine they would take Cousins with their pick and take pot luck that the player they want now will be available at their first rookie pick.

Personally if they were to guarantee taking Cousins with the extra pick I wouldn't be that worried as it doesn't materially affect us, other than one more player removed from the pool. But clearly this is designed to allow the Tigers to have an extra pick in the PSD that they aren't entitled to.

Another solution would be to allow Polak to be rookied and the extra pick be given to the Tigers at the end of the Rookie draft as a PSD pick or rookie pick and then they can uplift a rookie immediately.

Richmond are obviously scared that the player they want with pick 6 in the PSD will be rookied before they get to him if they take Cousins. They want their cake and eat it as well. Why didn't they just delist another player earlier or make this request earlier and they could have taken Cousins in the ND with last pick.

I can see the AFL refusing this and suggesting the long term injury list and it becoming a choice of punting on their young player being available in the rookie draft or passing on Cousins.

This has occurred because it is Terry's last year and Cousins could make a huge difference to their position at the end of the year and therefore a new contract for the Coach.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I'm dead against this.

Yep. You KNOW if it was the dees asking for something like this they'd say no...

The Rama thing, and to a degree this one with Polak opens the floodgates for clubs to bend the rules when it comes to drafting, salaries, lists etc etc...

Unfortunate things happen to footballers on club lists, there's hundreds of them in the AFL in any given season... Fate is going to step in and deal players bad hands outside of the world of footy, Broady being just about the biggest example of this. Though obviously "unfortunate" doesn't begin to describe that particular situation...

But where MFC had a player on their list, who lost his life, I think it makes sense to allow us to put another name there. But when a player is ALREADY LISTED, doesn't it smack a little of being a touch too opportunistic?

I just refuse to believe they'd be thinking about this is Benny Cousins WASN'T on the market. If they WERE they would have come forward months ago.

[H_T 3,049]

But when a player is ALREADY LISTED, doesn't it smack a little of being a touch too opportunistic?

I just refuse to believe they'd be thinking about this is Benny Cousins WASN'T on the market. If they WERE they would have come forward months ago.

That's for sure. Too opportunistic - definitely smacks of it. Sheedy started the ball rolling in all this when confronting Craig Cameron in public.

[Demon Head 292]

I wouldn't label it a "shifty," nothing wrong with a workplace looking after their employees

You're joking about it not being a shifty aren't you?

Of course it's a shifty and an absolute one at that!

It's not about Polak at all. He's already on their list and on a contract so he needs no protection whatsoever.

This is a blatant attempt by Richmond to add to its senior list outside the existing rules and outside the spirit of a fair competition.

In other words, it's exactly what one would expect Demetriou and this AFL Commission to sanction.

[Kit Walker 225]

On balance, I think Richmond should be allowed to do this because Polak's situation is quite exceptional. I think it does come within the range of the precedent set by the Ramanauskas and Broadbridge decisions so as a matter of fairness I don't believe they should be penalised for looking after a player who is every chance of not playing in 2009.

That said, there are reasonable suspicions regarding the timing irrespective of whether they are intending to pick us Cousins or not. Especially given the link Still Rocking posted on 'ology.

If it were my decision, I would allow it, but only to pick either a player over 23 (ie. ineligible for the rookie draft), or to take the pick after the conclusion of the rookie draft. That way other clubs aren't penalised and Richmond can still maintain a full list in reasonable circumstances.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Rama contracted cancer and was given all opportunity to overcome a life threatening condition. Polak walked into a tram when he was .......... !

Broadbridge was killed post PSD so the AFL exemption was to replace a player on the list an does not set a precedent pre PSD.

Richmond's ploy is far different and it should be stopped by the AFL. However I suspect the AFL may allow so it can claim we made a special effort to allow Cousins to redeem himself.

[Kit Walker 225]

Broadbridge was killed post PSD so the AFL exemption was to replace a player on the list an does not set a precedent pre PSD.

The Broadbridge exemption set a precedent for allowing a player to be replaced outside of the normal list lodgement deadlines.

As for the comments in the preceding paragraph of yours, the AFL would be rightly condemned if they were to refuse Richmond's application on the basis of some allegation of moral culpability of Polak in suffering his injury, which you have clearly inferred.

[montasaurus 0]

What ever happens I say well done to the Tigers for giving him a go (If it happens).

Good luck to em if they get a special dispensation from the AFL. I still believe the MFC have had the blinkers on in relation to this and I am still hoping for us to pull a suprise but know that it won't happen

I would hate to be playing them in rd 1 if he is fit. I think it is the blues so hopefully the tigers give carlton the start that we are all hoping for.

[45HG 1,559]

I think it is the blues so hopefully the tigers give carlton the start that we are all hoping for.

Again

[e25 5]

Or so that Cousins doesn't sue the fu&% out the AFL for restraint of trade or something similar

[DeeBest 13]

Richmond are using two sympathy cards to get an advantage that they are not entitled to. They are saying we must look after Polak and Cousins.

As others have said on here it is not about looking after Polak at all as he is on the list and will be paid, it is about looking after the Tigers. Polak could be placed on the long term injury list and that satisfies their position.

What is at the heart of this is that the Tigers presumably want to take Cousins in the PSD as well as the player they have targeted for their existing pick. If they were genuine they would take Cousins with their pick and take pot luck that the player they want now will be available at their first rookie pick.

Personally if they were to guarantee taking Cousins with the extra pick I wouldn't be that worried as it doesn't materially affect us, other than one more player removed from the pool. But clearly this is designed to allow the Tigers to have an extra pick in the PSD that they aren't entitled to.

Another solution would be to allow Polak to be rookied and the extra pick be given to the Tigers at the end of the Rookie draft as a PSD pick or rookie pick and then they can uplift a rookie immediately.

Richmond are obviously scared that the player they want with pick 6 in the PSD will be rookied before they get to him if they take Cousins. They want their cake and eat it as well. Why didn't they just delist another player earlier or make this request earlier and they could have taken Cousins in the ND with last pick.

I can see the AFL refusing this and suggesting the long term injury list and it becoming a choice of punting on their young player being available in the rookie draft or passing on Cousins.

SPOT ON!!!

I hope MFC have submitted an objection to Richmond's request. At the end of the day the AFL will decide, but a decision in Richmond's favour could significantly impact on us and our first rookie pick.

[H_T 3,049]

If this all gets the green light on Monday, how long will Polak be rookie listed? Until the first long term injury occurs? He'll be back on the list before Wallace can say, "Sheedy, I'm the boss around here, not you!"

[e25 5]

If this all gets the green light on Monday, how long will Polak be rookie listed? Until the first long term injury occurs? He'll be back on the list before Wallace can say, "Sheedy, I'm the boss around here, not you!"

I don't think Polak will ever play again at AFL level.

The club did the right thing by him, but it took them a long time to realise they should probably try to get some compensation for having a player on their list that will likely never recover.

Incredibly stupid on the tigers' behalf.

Let them have Cousins. It only concerns me if they manage to take a player we have our eye on, & even then I can live with that.