Who would get a game at Geelong or Hawthorn?

[CarnTheDees 52]

Once again the Demonland ability to overrate our players shines through! Do we have such short memories that we've already forgotten what happened on a rainy Friday night at the G less than 2 months ago?

The suggestions that Warnock is better than Gilham, and Jamar is better than Renouf are outright ridiculous.

For mine the weak links in the two GF sides are/were:

Geelong:

Mooney (just an average CHF in a good side) - probably around equal to Miller.

Varcoe: Davey would beat him into that side.

Blake: Would prefer PJ but not Jamar.

Kelly: Had a shocker in the GF but is usually very good. McLean might push him for a spot.

Hawthorn:

Renouf: PJ might push him for a spot.

Gilham: Possibly replaced by Garland.

Crawford: Struggled late in the year with his tendonitis, McLean or Davey could replace.

[Eastie Boyz 0]

Hawthorn's list is a developed, experienced version of our current side. They were no different to us as we are now, 4 years ago.

Except the Dees don't have Buddy

[45HG 1,539]

It makes for interesting reading I think.

Two years ago we played the Hawks under lights, with many of the same players that were out there yesterday, and absolutely dismantled them.

Individuals don't win Premierships, teams do. Perhaps some of our players could have played roles in either team yesterday, but all in all it becomes a pretty redundant argument.

You wouldn't have Dew in the best 22 in the League for 2008, but he was in the best 22 for the year, the Premiership winning team. I hadn't thought much of Ellis, and if he'd been picked by St. Kilda, probably still wouldn't.

Wonder if we were a Buddy and Roughead away from a Premiership in '06

[mo64 5,853]

Once again the Demonland ability to overrate our players shines through! Do we have such short memories that we've already forgotten what happened on a rainy Friday night at the G less than 2 months ago?

Just shows that you don't understand the difference between a collective unit and individual talent.

Individually, a majority of the Melbourne list could play a role in a good side. Collectively, we don't have any elite players, which is what makes you a successful team, and allows the role players to flourish.

[Rogue 585]

Would we give up Green for pick 15?

Yes.

[H_T 3,043]

2-3 years ago we dismantled Geelong underlights at the G and drew with them down at Skilled. How times have changed.

Of course some of our players would get a game at Geelong or Hawthorn.

It comes down to how well any of these particular players would adapt to either of the Hawks or Cats gameplans.

It's all hypothetical and wouldn't happen, but it's an interesting question.

I'm sure Bomber would prefer a Bruce, Green, Davey or McLean over a Varcoe or Stokes right now.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Chook..I make my comments based upon the general performances of the players.. Over all with possibly atm the exception of Green..( on a good day ) we really dont match either of these teams.

Dont fall for the mistake of comparing our guys on a god day with theirs on a baddun!! Take them over the season.

They didnt finish first and second by accident !!

[jacey 333]

Once again the Demonland ability to overrate our players shines through! Do we have such short memories that we've already forgotten what happened on a rainy Friday night at the G less than 2 months ago?

The suggestions that Warnock is better than Gilham, and Jamar is better than Renouf are outright ridiculous.

For mine the weak links in the two GF sides are/were:

Geelong:

Mooney (just an average CHF in a good side) - probably around equal to Miller.

Varcoe: Davey would beat him into that side.

Blake: Would prefer PJ but not Jamar.

Kelly: Had a shocker in the GF but is usually very good. McLean might push him for a spot.

Hawthorn:

Renouf: PJ might push him for a spot.

Gilham: Possibly replaced by Garland.

Crawford: Struggled late in the year with his tendonitis, McLean or Davey could replace.

That is a joke right. Half of our team would make both sides.

Geelong are a fantastic team but apart from half a dozen odd players, the rest are run of the mill players. Good players but separate them from the group and if you judge them individually 'they are run off the mill players'. We've got players who could easily replace them and be role players.

Blake would bagged as Jamar like if he played for us.

James Kelly. "Brock might push him for a spot" (What a joke). Brock shits all over James Kelly. Kelly is ROTM and is the biggest beneficiary of that team. He is not that good if good at all. You can add his name to the Chris Heffernan-Chad Fletcher effect.

Mooney. Gets a ton off supply but shown to be ROTM.

Josh Hunt. If you need explanation, you need help.

Joel Corey. He is actually a bit better then what i give him credit for but IMO his disposals aren't penetrating. Better then ROTM and probably could rack up 30+ in most clubs but he's not a game breaker.

Corey Enright. The lucky man to make AA. Had a red hot month where he was irresistible but for some reason selectors overlooked the rest of his season where he was good to solid. Plays his role very well but still a role player. Mackie similar.

Harley. Looks a good leader but as a player, how the hell did he make AA? I would not have him top 6 KPP defenders and i would not have him in top 6 small defenders. WTF?

Milburn. Pays no respect to oppositions and gets burnt. Exposed many times this year to be great going forwards but MIA going backwards.

Rooke. He's an enforcer. That's it.

Lonergan. Get's a ton off it but no bags.

Stokes, Varcoe. Exposed.

Give Melbourne Gablett, Scarlett, fully fit Chapman, a 3rd season JSelwood, StevieJ anchored in fwd 50, Jimmy Bartel or Buddy, ROughead, Sewell, Hodge, Mitchell and Melbourne would go close to premiership.

Give us Geelongs next best 16 or Hawks next best 16 and add MFC's best 6 and they'll be lucky to make the 8.

We've got a lot of role players in MFC (for a long time), so load up draft time and look to get some GUNS.

[beelzebub 23,313]

[45HG 1,539]

BB, you're honestly saying that all 44 playing on Saturday are better than any of our starting 22?

Having a laugh aren't you? There's realism, then there's just going over the top with it

[beelzebub 23,313]

Many ..many people are making the very big mistake of looking at a player in isolation.. Look at how they use what ever abilites and aplly them in a TEAM fashion..to ADVANTAGE..and do that week in week out.

For the most part we played 2008 like a rabble..it got better.. but were still currently a rabble !!..maybe a rabble with potential

and yes.. I dont think anyone at Melbourne would get a guernsey at either GFC or HFC..thats my opinion

Those two teams played off in the Grand final because they were the best teams at applying themselves..all year..and the closeness of the final backs that up.. We finished 16th..lets not kid ourselves !!

[45HG 1,539]

I see what you mean Bub, but i think you're doing the opposite.

You're looking at the team and it's qualities, and therefore assessing individual ability based on that. Bruce, Green, Brock all were part of the most "successful" Victorian club two years ago when part of a solid team, it's naive to think that they couldn't play a part in a team like Hawthorn should they have spent enough time at the club.

WE, the MFC, finished 16th yes, but that doesn't make everyone of our players worse than any of the Grand final listed players.

Steve Johnson, Cam Mooney, Chapman et. al. were part of the Rubbish GFC team of '06, yet also part of their '07 triumph, MFC players would've fitted in either side if they could work in the team

[H_T 3,043]

Bruce, Green, Brock all were part of the most "successful" Victorian club two years ago when part of a solid team, it's naive to think that they couldn't play a part in a team like Hawthorn should they have spent enough time at the club.

WE, the MFC, finished 16th yes, but that doesn't make everyone of our players worse than any of the Grand final listed players.

Steve Johnson, Cam Mooney, Chapman et. al. were part of the Rubbish GFC team of '06, yet also part of their '07 triumph, MFC players would've fitted in either side if they could work in the team

Correct.

[45HG 1,539]

Furthermore, you can't say that if Brad Green or Brock Mclean went into the Hawthorn side next year, they would be unable to win the Premiership

[jacey 333]

I see what you mean Bub, but i think you're doing the opposite.

You're looking at the team and it's qualities, and therefore assessing individual ability based on that. Bruce, Green, Brock all were part of the most "successful" Victorian club two years ago when part of a solid team, it's naive to think that they couldn't play a part in a team like Hawthorn should they have spent enough time at the club.

WE, the MFC, finished 16th yes, but that doesn't make everyone of our players worse than any of the Grand final listed players.

Steve Johnson, Cam Mooney, Chapman et. al. were part of the Rubbish GFC team of '06, yet also part of their '07 triumph, MFC players would've fitted in either side if they could work in the team

Yep. Not one who gets sucked in to 'We finished last so all our players sux and Geelong finished first so all their players are great'.

[Chook 15,012]

I probably don't need to continue this debate with you , 'Bub, since it seems others have taken over. But I'd like to ask what percentage of our players you think would get a game in West Coast's team. Or Fremantle's? At what position on the ladder would none of our players make it?

[Rogue 585]

It's bizarre to use the fact we finished last as leverage for a case that states none of our players are better than the 44 that played on Saturday.

Did we ever finish last when Robbie Flower was playing?

I'm sure Clarkson and Thompson would have happily selected some current Demons if they played for Hawthorn or Geelong.

[beelzebub 23,313]

Tell ya what...lets see if Geelong or Hawthorn think anyones good enough to trade for. As you ar asking if any are good enough for them...let them make the case clear. Hawks're in the trading mood...lets see what happens.

We have no one playing currently who can walk in the shadow of Robbie Flower so quit tuggin it !! If he were here he WOULD be good enough. .but he's not !!

It's bizarre to use the fact we finished last as leverage for a case that states none of our players are better than the 44 that played on Saturday.

Oh Im sorry..please ammend the error. .apparently it gives open access !! <_<

Im think its bizarre that anyone seriously thinks we have anyone, at their current stage of football "evolution" that could step into either team..but its only an opinion. Who..what role..and why better?? what would they bring to that team that they dont already have?

Im not about to do a team by team comparison, that wasnt the question.

[Rogue 585]

Tell ya what...lets see if Geelong or Hawthorn think anyones good enough to trade for.

Those teams would willingly swap one of their grand finalists for at least one Demon.

However, we wouldn't accept the trade.

As an example, Stokes for Davey, anyone?

[mo64 5,853]

Tell ya what...lets see if Geelong or Hawthorn think anyones good enough to trade for. As you ar asking if any are good enough for them...let them make the case clear. Hawks're in the trading mood...lets see what happens.

So unless one of our players is traded to Hawthorn and Geelong, we officially don't have anyone capable of getting a game with these clubs. And if we don't trade anyone to West Coast, not one of our 44 would get a game with them either.

Amazing.

BTW, the current Hawthorn regime thought that Ferguson was a fair trade for Sewell.

[beelzebub 23,313]

So unless one of our players is traded to Hawthorn and Geelong, we officially don't have anyone capable of getting a game with these clubs.

And youre more qualified to make that call than their combined brain's trust. Im mighty impressed. If they dont think anyone is worth chasing.. who am I to usurp their findings. They do it for a living...and they're pretty good at it..I'd say.

Ferg..Sewell.. that was then ..this is now.. bet they're glad it never went through !! Sewell kicked on.. Ferg was kicked off.

I think we have some talent.. but as a team its more in the 'potential' column rather than the 'arrived"

Some people think Green is a walk up at these places.. bully for them..I dont....live with it

[Yze_Magic 3]

B - Campbell Brown Trent Croad Colin Garland

HB - Luke Hodge Jared Rivers Jordan Lewis

C - Aaron Davey Sam Mitchell Chance Bateman

HF - Shane Crawford Jarryd Roughead Michael Osborne

F - Cyril Rioli Lance Franklin Colin Sylvia

R - Paul Johnson Brock McLean Brad Sewell

I/C - Brad Green Cale Morton Robert Campbell Stuart Dew

[Chook 15,012]

And youre more qualified to make that call than their combined brain's trust. Im mighty impressed. If they dont think anyone is worth chasing.. who am I to usurp their findings. They do it for a living...and they're pretty good at it..I'd say.

That's flawed logic, 'Bub. Neither Hawthorn or Geelong showed interest in Jonathan Brown when he was up for grabs earlier this year. There are many reasons for that, but you can be sure it's not because they think he's crap.

The Stokes-Green/Davey/McLean trade will never happen for a number of reasons, but the major reason is that the Cats know we'd never entertain such a terrible deal for us. Would you? I know it's not the question posed by the original poster, but if you had the opportunity, would you trade Green for Stokes.

[Chook 15,012]

B - Campbell Brown Trent Croad Colin Garland

HB - Luke Hodge Jared Rivers Jordan Lewis

C - Aaron Davey Sam Mitchell Chance Bateman

HF - Shane Crawford Jarryd Roughead Michael Osborne

F - Cyril Rioli Lance Franklin Colin Sylvia

R - Paul Johnson Brock McLean Brad Sewell

I/C - Brad Green Cale Morton Robert Campbell Stuart Dew

That's a goddamn good side you've got there YM. I like it. What about the Cats?

By the way, sorry about the double post.

[beelzebub 23,313]

That's flawed logic, 'Bub. Neither Hawthorn or Geelong showed interest in Jonathan Brown when he was up for grabs earlier this year. There are many reasons for that, but you can be sure it's not because they think he's crap.

The interest ..or lack there of ..is as they pedominantly are pursuing a course of procurring players different to Brown.. Brown is a very poor choice as its most likely the clubs were somewhat off put by the 5 year deal and millions needed to procure.. wasnt an issue of talent.

Again..this goes to..would they get a gig at thses clubs.. theyarent looking for this type.. nor likely anything we have.. especially as half of those proffered arnt fit enough to walk to the fridge half the time.!!

People.. just accept I have a different view.. its simple. Its an opinion..get over it

But we can continue ad nauseaum if you all wish.