Juice is done

[H_T 3,047]

Chris Johnson has had 5 years at the MFC and has only recently shown his wares. Newton has had 4 years and is a KP player. More development needed.

[Real Demon 232]

I hate supporters writing off players, and I won't do that to Juice as he does definitly have some ability.

However, watching him play, and even how he looks physically, work rate doesn't appear to be his forte.

To become a solid player, and regular contributor, he is going to need to work a lot harder than he shown so far.

[mo64 5,874]

Chris Johnson has had 5 years at the MFC and has only recently shown his wares. Newton has had 4 years and is a KP player. More development needed.

Correct. And where's the logic in him spending only 65% of the time on the ground. :angry:

[deanox 9,922]

i agree with HT and others here.

miller has played 100 games and is 25 and is only now showing that he might be able to play consistant footy, and kick consistant goals.

newton deserves time to adjust to playing at afl, he deserves a chance to establish himself. watching on tv he was rarely seen. this suggests he could have been on the bench or not being kicked too. dh72's coments indicate this was the case. it appears players dont look for him when he does lead. it also looks like we hold the ball up across the centre and the half forward line for way to long, mucking up everyones leads. anyone who watched the game, even on tv, could see this. ball delivery wasn't good, it was never kicked to advantage, it was never out in front.

i know he has some documented attitude problems, but imo he has been working reasonably hard for no reward (poor and sporadic delivery). i think DB is in the best position to judge his attitude and the fact that he got back into the team speaks volumes for me.

[mo64 5,874]

MFC were terrrible yesterday and its on these days that forwards must work harder for the opportunities that come their way. Its disturbing that he did not work harder and more importantly never seemed to realise the need to.

He spent 65% of the time on the ground, and we had 26 less inside 50's, so where we these supposed opportunities that came his way?

[Roost It 1,434]

Fair post Dappa. You have been a big Newton supporter and I understand why.

While Newton will be given until the end of the year, he has done himself no favours thus far.

Yesterday, while he received limited supply into the F50, I was disappointed with the following:

1. Failure to repeatedly present when the ball came forward. If I compare Millers work rate to Newton's work rate there is an alarming gap.

2. The relative ease at which his direct opponent ran off him from a contested situation reflecting a lack of second effort after a marketing contest.

3. Failure to grasp marks when he gets both hands to it. Its supposedly his strength.

Its a misnomer to suggest he is only 20 or 21 yo age. He has had 4 years at MFC and the areas where he is lacking are core areas which younger and more junior players show naturally in lesser leagues. Why not Newton? The continual reoccurrence of his lazy half hearted approach crucifies any titbit of skill many posters get carried away with.

MFC were terrrible yesterday and its on these days that forwards must work harder for the opportunities that come their way. Its disturbing that he did not work harder and more importantly never seemed to realise the need to.

A tad unfair I suspect.

1. Ball came forward very poorly and not very often after the first quarter. In that quarter I thought he was lively and competitive.

2. Fair point. He seems to be trying but doesn't really appear able to contain his opponent. Again the delivery to him does make this stand out more. Had the ball been kicked to him he wouldn't have to worry about containing his opponent's run.

3. I think it is a strength of his. He wasn't as good today as last week at holding the grabs.

As for his 4 years at MFC - Neitz, Robbo at his position stitched up. So that's an unfair comparison. Miller's had the same fate. Now they're gone let's give him at least a year to show us some form.

Lazy - He does seem to need to learn to work harder. The first quarter was good. After that 22 players went to sh@t

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

1. Ball came forward very poorly and not very often after the first quarter. In that quarter I thought he was lively and competitive.

The issue is his work rate. Miller kept working hard in trying conditions. Newton?????

2. Fair point. He seems to be trying but doesn't really appear able to contain his opponent. Again the delivery to him does make this stand out more. Had the ball been kicked to him he wouldn't have to worry about containing his opponent's run.

Delivery to him has little to do with it. Once a ball is a 50/50 situation, it just seemed to easy for his opponent to continually run off him. He was not accountable and it hurt the side.

3. I think it is a strength of his. He wasn't as good today as last week at holding the grabs.

Given his poor work rate in other areas he needs to make his strengths stick. He did not.

As for his 4 years at MFC - Neitz, Robbo at his position stitched up. So that's an unfair comparison. Miller's had the same fate. Now they're gone let's give him at least a year to show us some form.

You missed the point. Some of Newton's weaknesses are aspects of the player that are core and fundamental and relate to how he approaches his game. If I look at hard workers like Jones, Miller and Valenti they express alot of the characteristics to win the ball that Newton does not. Its cruels his game that he does not do it.

[Roost It 1,434]

The issue is his work rate. Miller kept working hard in trying conditions. Newton?????

Spent time on the bench and was leading for the ball, but I never said he works as hard as Miller

[beelzebub 23,376]

I think Rhino actually is pretty wel on the bal here as oppose to the subject of this conversation. Juice is another of those ooh ahh seems to promise so much and yet under scrutiny isnt really delivering muchnor with any aplomb.

I never played at any real level ( only suburban ) but do know one very important apsect of playing up the sharp end ( which I did ) . You need to make every forward incursion of the ball count. Thats your job. Thats ALL your job really is about. Yes there are icings on teh cake these days..forward defensive pressure etc. But the fundamentals are simple..find the pill and kick it between th the big sticks.. Many may wish to over complicate this to their hearts cntent but it remains that. Your a forward..the job is to kick or facilitate goals.

Rule #1 if you can get your mitts near it..you MUST mark it !!..and geez its easier these days ..they cant touch your arms.. so if Juice was clever enough he make sure he got the free even if not the grab. He doesnt do this.

Rule #2 if you fail rule one.. pull out all stops to get it any other way. This requires many 2nd and 3rd efforts. You dont sulk and let them run away !!

Your job as a forward is not only to kick goals but make it as hard as hell for a back to fend them. Juice doesnt seem to do this. Now he might come along..and I hope he does as he does show something.. But the story so far is defintely that he "Has talent, lacks application "

[rusty_kingswood 0]

I just love how quickly people turn on players on this thing.

give the KID until the end of the year at least. How long did it take Miller to come any good (and he isnt even fully there yet).

I cant say that I am a big Juicy fan, honestly I think he is a lazy footballer, however before crucifying him, give him the chance to find a bit of form. Or at least, wait until there is some decent supply into the forward line, before you ask for his head!!

[Beamer 1]

I just love how quickly people turn on players on this thing.

give the KID until the end of the year at least. How long did it take Miller to come any good (and he isnt even fully there yet).

I cant say that I am a big Juicy fan, honestly I think he is a lazy footballer, however before crucifying him, give him the chance to find a bit of form. Or at least, wait until there is some decent supply into the forward line, before you ask for his head!!

We may be waiting quite a while there Rusty.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Fair post Dappa. You have been a big Newton supporter and I understand why.

While Newton will be given until the end of the year, he has done himself no favours thus far.

Yesterday, while he received limited supply into the F50, I was disappointed with the following:

1. Failure to repeatedly present when the ball came forward. If I compare Millers work rate to Newton's work rate there is an alarming gap.

2. The relative ease at which his direct opponent ran off him from a contested situation reflecting a lack of second effort after a marketing contest.

3. Failure to grasp marks when he gets both hands to it. Its supposedly his strength.

Its a misnomer to suggest he is only 20 or 21 yo age. He has had 4 years at MFC and the areas where he is lacking are core areas which younger and more junior players show naturally in lesser leagues. Why not Newton? The continual reoccurrence of his lazy half hearted approach crucifies any titbit of skill many posters get carried away with.

MFC were terrrible yesterday and its on these days that forwards must work harder for the opportunities that come their way. Its disturbing that he did not work harder and more importantly never seemed to realise the need to.

Yep. 3 pretty salient points...

I'm certain that with the remaining half-a-dozen games this year, that should he play, he'll have a blinder in there somewhere. Maybe kick 4. And then he'll retain his spot. We can only lose so many players at the end of the year, and we're not exactly swimming in KP forwards these days.

The big one, I think for Juice, is point 3. Looking at yesterday's game up until the last quarter, had he just taken the footy cleanly as we know he can... just a FEW times, then he would be providing the second contested mark inside forward fifty that we have been SCREAMING out for. Miller can justifiably hold his head high, and Sylvia is battling hard for a player who's pace and leap is still limited. If Juice could take a few neat contested ones, and provide a contest for Aussie and others to crumb off, then I wouldn't be as damning.

I think 'land is divided 50/50 on this one, between those who cut him a lot of slack, and those who see a load of talent, and as such, mark him harshly. I'm in the latter category. It's time to start putting it together.

[H_T 3,047]

I think 'land is divided 50/50 on this one, between those who cut him a lot of slack, and those who see a load of talent, and as such, mark him harshly. I'm in the latter category. It's time to start putting it together.

All the more reason, to let him play out the year at least, another pre-season and development under Bailey over summer. I'm sure will see alot of improvement in him come April'09.

[Dee*ceiving 1,674]

The ball didnt make it into our 50 for 2 qtrs and he still kicked 2 goals. I think he had about 6 shots against the Dogs.

Has been good enough in 2 games back to persist a bit longer. He needs to learn to exert some influence on proceedings when the ball is not coming to his area by working up the ground and ensuring his opponent gets a work out, but that can be achieved.

Still young enough to persist with IMO.

[titan_uranus 25,020]

I feel as though I am right on the fence on this one. On the one hand I believe, at 20/21 with only 10-15 games under his belt there is a large room for improvement. I also think it is tough, almost impossible, to judge the performance of a FF when the supply is pathetic and/or non-existent. You can't be expected to dominate at FF unless you have the opportunity to do so.

On the other hand, at no stage in his career have I seen Newton play and thought to myself: 'He could be a good FF for us for the next few years'. I have not once seen him play a great game, only a few kind of good ones. This year, though he's only had 3 tries at it, he has not done anything to suggest he is capable of holding down FF, and to me, there are many deep flaws in his game, such as his speed, second efforts and workrate when he doesn't have the ball. His marking, supposedly his best weapon, is not exactly fantastic either.

So overall I feel as though we're going to see him given more time to unimpress, but never really do anything for the MFC.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Im certainly not asking for his head. I think he does have the makings of a good forward. He will just need to play a little less Ooze-ish ( the easier marks and kicks with less second efforts ) and use his talent in a more Neeta ..keep at them manner. One aspect of Neetas game he can leave out is rubber chesting though

Its up to him.

[H_T 3,047]

He will just need to play a little less Ooze-ish

Ooze-ish?

Hmmmm

[deanox 9,922]

Spent time on the bench and was leading for the ball, but I never said he works as hard as Miller

interesting point this, for you roost it, and for everyone else.

miller played at CHF. his leads up the ground took him well up the wings almost to CHB at sometimes. he pushed up for the ball ran very very hard all day and no doubt had a much bigger work rate than newton.

newton however played at FF. his leads were within our forward 50, seeing that the ball rarely got in the forward 50 it's not a surprise he wasnt seen much. add to that that when the ball came near him it was invariably kicked over his head when he was on the lead, or the the side his opponent was on.

these are two different roles. the ball wasnt kicked to newton as much as it was kicked to miller. newton played in a position where we rarely got the ball.

if neitz had of played yesterday, i reckon he would have had a similar game to newton. stuck strandard close to goal starved of the football, and starved of opportunities to mark. neitz might have kicked the goal in the first quarter, and perhaps neitz would have pushed to CHF to try and impose himself on te contest. newton isnt that sort of player - but he did push up on to a wing in the last and got a few kicks around the place.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

1. Many of Millers leads were within the forward line. It was measure of the work rate and urgency by which Miller plays and Newton does not. If Miller had more of Newton's talent then that would be something.

2. Newton is a different player to Neitz and clearly does not play the power forward role. Too many of our inside 50s were to non event opportunities where was Newton? He could have played out to the F50 arc within his role and has done so often in the past.

[H_T 3,047]

It was measure of the work rate and urgency by which Miller plays and Newton does not.

Sums it up perfectly.

If Miller had more of Newton's talent then that would be something.

On the flipside, if Newton had more of Miller's work rate and urgency and physicality............then that would be something.