Lucifers Hero

The anecdote refers to when Oliver started which was 5 years ago. It doesn't mean he still is: “...‘Clarry’ was just so headstrong, which for some coaches can be a real turn-off ..." My read is that coaches need to find what makes each player tick to get their best. Macca found the right buttons to press with Oliver and it showed in his performance. We have a coaching panel befitting a bottom 4 team so I'm not sure why some posters (not yourself) let them off the hook. Oliver and all our players deserve the best coaches; coaches that know how to motivate diverse individuals not coaches that want players who do as they are told to make their jobs easier or as Macca says who 'can be a real turnoff!' If coached properly we have a lot to look forward to with Clarry. Macca: "...Oliver hasn’t even scratched the surface of his potential..." and rated him with Selwood "...for competitiveness, his drive to win and compete...and ...we haven’t seen anywhere near the best of him yet, there’s a lot more to come." The sooner we get coaches that can work with each player's personalities to get the best from them the sooner we will rise up the ladder.

If he is paid out presumably it will be in this year's sal cap. He may be kept on the list so he can still access medical and other support services for another year, which I would agree with. He could be kept on the rookie list. Only guessing.

This thread is about Petracca. This thread is about the Brownlow count, tonight

One wonders why Goodwin got a mentor if he isn't going to reciprocate or participate in a plan to make it work.

Very true. But in his role to develop (assistant) coaches and mentor to Goodwin wouldn't it be in his remit to remedy any issues in the box? If not him. who?

Had a look at the AFL Predictor brownlow-medal/predictor and Petracca is on 18 votes. However, it has not scored him votes in rnd 6 vs GCS, rnd 8 vs Lions and 17 vs Giants. The coaches gave him 7, 7, and 6 in those rounds. So he may get a few more than 18. I don't think he will overtake Neale but votes in those 3 rounds could be enough to overtake Boak. Note: the 3,2,1 by round in the mfc article differ occasionally to the AFL Predictor.

Article on Club website: brownlow-medal-form-guide-a-round-by-round-preview Predicted Melbourne Leaderboard: 18 – C.Petracca 7 – M.Gawn 7 – S.May 7 – C.Oliver 5 – J.Viney 4 – A.Brayshaw 3 – E.Langdon 2 – B.Fritsch Will be interested to see how many votes Oliver gets. It always seems odd that he polls so few, even in AA or winner of BnF years. Plenty of players score highly in poor performing teams so do not think that is the reason. And its hard to think the umps don't notice him. Just wonder whether he is still suffering from the false claims of 'staging' in his early years.

By all accounts he has a lucrative 5 year contract, at which time he will be 32. In 2018 and this year had serious hamstring issues. At his level they don't sign contracts based on games played so gets paid whether injured or playing. Guess the Pies think they aren't going to get value for money over that 5 years. Can use it better on other players. Clinical by them but may become the norm with reduced sal caps. I'm glad he is calling them out on it. It seems they wanted him to happily go to GCS so they could play the 'be with family' card to justify the trade to members. Gutsy young man to take on the pies and Eddy machine. Good on him.

Not at all Skuit. A few posts in the thread were hung up about he reportedly being upset about his bnf finish and it seemed to trigger a bit of a pile on his improvement and performance. I felt it was getting a bit absurd so tried to put a bit of perspective into his contribution this year.

I didn't say anything about Geelong "getting back at us". That would be juvenile and stupid by them. My posts referred to a report that they "felt used".

Managers use all clubs to leverage player contracts. Its their job. That doesn't stop a club being aggrieved by it. The further down the line they were for a signature the more aggrieved they feel. That is fairly natural I would have thought.

???

That says to me they are pretty confident of getting him. If Cameron doesn't go there every chance they will feel used again. They understand the game.

Heard that on radio. Geelong is a club that doesn't talk of potential trades. They will let the media speculate. So for their CEO to publicly discuss Viney, another clubs VC, they would have been very confident of getting him. They felt used.

Good question. I would have Langdon teach Baker the tricks of the trade in the same way May is teaching Rivers. Hard to see Baker getting the game experience he needs if Smith keeps him out.

Some very harsh judgements of Oliver on here. Forget the bnf, spots 3-5 were separated by a miniscule amount. He was in the AA squad. He was at the top of most KPI's for a midfielder. He is 23 yo. Anyone looking at him as to why we missed finals are way off the mark. He is a key reason we ended up 9th. If 18 of his teammates trained and played like he does finals would be beyond doubt. If they lift their game his would go thru the roof.

The hold up is because the AFL wants TPP cut by 30%. AFLPA wants 0% cut. iirc the AFLPA got their mammoth TPP increases in the last CBA on the back of much fought '% of AFL Revenue' as a base. Now that the base has evaporated they want to change the goal posts. I saw an article a few weeks ago that the FA and trade times could be put back a few weeks because of the sal cap delay. Edit: cba-negotiations

Interesting to read last years comments in the Isaac Smith thread. Some reputable reports saying mfc went cold when he wanted 3 years given his age. And some said he just wanted to cash in on his last few years. Now to get him we need to go to 3 year terms to outbid others. Unfortunately, we didn't get him and took Tomlinson for the wing role instead. Now we are stuck with Tomlinson who can't play the postion he was recruited for, on very good coin for another 3 years at a time when our sal cap is very tight.

We like to think we are a destination club but we aren't. Some recent players joining from other clubs (Lever, May, Langdon, Tomlinson) is because we pay 'overs' or were their only option left. I have a similar sense of the names being mentioned for us this year. Will wait and see what deals we get done this year and hope that anyone who joins does so because they really want to play for us. I find it very frustrating that Carlton and Saints are attracting very good players. They have the same or better 'premiership' window. One has to wonder what player managers are telling their players about different clubs and where they direct them.

No I don't. But the club has a long history of signing up good players a long way out from expiry of contract, often more than a year in advance. So based on that history I would expect the club is negotiating with Oliver. Nor do I know if he has chosen to put off talks. Just saying it may not be the club holding things up. It could be as simple as all are waiting for the sal cap to be known.

From what I read the issue with the Brisb offer it is for 3 years with a low base (and a lot of add-ons which is not unreasonable because no-one knows how many games he will play). But the AFL FA comp formula of secret herbs and spices doesn't consider the add-ons. I would think the AFL and the PA would step in and arbitrate before Daniher is forced to stay at Ess. Lions calling Ess bluff to walk away would be to force them to be reasonable and not make ridiculous ambit demands of destination clubs and waste everyone's time.

Of course the club is trying to sign him up, now. Maybe its his choice to not sign up yet.

It looks like the Lions offer to Daniher will get Ess an end of first round comp pick at best. So Ess now make demands of Lions to improve offer to Daniher or they will match to force a trade. Its time someone stopped their stupid ambit claims that disrupt the whole trade period. Would love to see Lions call their bluff and let them match and threaten to walk away.

Didn't someone mention in another thread that Nev was lined up for an off-field role when his playing days were over. I can't recall who it was but he made mention that Nev was so much loved by the whole playing group and if he was 'retired' or contract 'paid out' it would be culturally very damaging to the players. If that report was correct what does it say if he goes to Collingwood in a similar role we propose or a Burgoyne (Hawks) type set-up. If we had plans to transition him to an off-field role when OOC in a year we can do it now. We did it with Garland and we did it more recently with Guy Walker. Or at least formalise an agreement to do it at end of next year. Nev has so much to offer, so much life, football and community experience we can't let that go to another club to leverage.

Nev is another who spent most of 2019 injured and the lack of a VFL comp in 2020 prevented him from finding form and consistency. 2020 is a poor measure of his performance. I wouldn't be too quick to trade him out especially if it was for some rubbish pick. Sometimes a players team value and cultural value cannot measured. I don't mean indigenous cultural value albeit that is important. I mean cultural value in terms of role model and standards both football and community contribution.